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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by NoobistTV-Metro View Post
    Yup, a very cool concept. I've run hundreds going on thousands of normals+heroics and haven't seen anything anywhere near that item level.
    Very interesting way to keep dungeons rewarding through out the gearing process.
    Yea. You really ran 1000's of dungeons in beta!

  2. #382
    The Lightbringer Nurvus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freernnur5 View Post
    they need to have LFR share a loot lockout with everything else though or people will feel the need to run it for a chance at upgrades which will lead to burnout along the lines of the ToC nightmare.
    Pointless to do so.
    Players will be able to spam Mythic+ 5-mans for that very chance, with better odds.

    To put things in perspective:
    - players who want to be competitive will probably rather do Mythic Dungeons, and probably have lots of fun doing it.
    - players running LFR for a "chance" at an upgrade won't be the competitive players.

    If there is burnout from Mythic+ Dungeons, so be it, but at least it won't be due to "lack of content".
    Last edited by Nurvus; 2016-06-27 at 08:48 PM.
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  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurvus View Post
    Pointless to do so.
    Players will be able to spam Mythic+ 5-mans for that very chance, and actually able to go higher.
    And it's a chance.

    Something tells me players who want to be competitive will rather do Mythic Dungeons, and probably have lots of fun doing it.
    Players running LFR for a "chance" at an upgrade won't be the competitive players.

    So if there is burnout from Mythic+ Dungeons, so be it.
    But at least it won't be due to "lack of content".
    Forgot about that. Disregard my wish for a loot lockout then. Think it might be interesting for people to know since I think some people hoped TF would be kept out of raids and only used as a way to keep dungeons relevant.
    Last edited by freernnur5; 2016-06-27 at 08:50 PM.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by freernnur5 View Post
    Forgot about that. Disregard my wish for a loot lockout then. Think it might be interesting for people to know since I think some people hoped TF would be kept out of raids and only used as a way to keep dungeons relevant.
    Yeah, I believe it was confirmed in that first Q and A that raid drops could be titanforged. Im curious if the chance is improved any as its suppose to be with Legendaries.

  5. #385
    The Lightbringer Nurvus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freernnur5 View Post
    Forgot about that. Disregard my wish for a loot lockout then. Think it might be interesting for people to know since I think some people hoped TF would be kept out of raids and only used as a way to keep dungeons relevant.
    I think what people misunderstand - which I also misunderstood at the start - is that the odds of getting amazing iLevel Titanforged is somewhat linked to your own iLevel.
    Since Mythic Raiders will likely get better gear "sooner" than the rest, it also means they will get better chances at higher iLevel Titanforged than the rest.
    Therefore you should still see "top" players with considerably better gear.
    You will simply be less likely to "stagnate" in gear and fight against a brickwall for months.

    Consider Titanforged as the new ICC "progressive buff".
    Last edited by Nurvus; 2016-06-27 at 11:07 PM.
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  6. #386
    It is a bonus for everyone including non-raiders except those farming Mythic. One of its main goals is to increase the life of shorter life content like dungeons by giving players a chance at better gear even when they out gear it.

    A recent post.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4759?page=2#33
    Originally Posted by Watcher
    There's a fair bit of confusion around how item level of end-game rewards works in Legion - understandable, since we haven't really gone into detail about how the system works, instead focusing on high-level goals and philosophies. Let me take a crack at changing that.

    Scaling vs. Static Item Level - "Anything Can Happen"

    This came up in the first Legion Q&A a couple of weeks ago, but in past expansions, the endgame item structure has always been defined by a rigid series of flat plateaus. In Warlords, Normal dungeon loot was Item Level 615. Heroic dungeon loot was 630. Normal Highmaul was 655. And so forth. Once you had Raid Finder gear or better, there was zero value to items from dungeons. In patch 6.2, Tanaan Jungle only offered Baleful items that could be empowered up to item level 695. If you were a Hellfire Citadel raider, setting out to do Tanaan dailies (to unlock flying, let's say), there was zero chance that anything could happen during that play session that might make your character stronger. And in a game underscored by progression, that's a shame.

    In essence, Legion changes those flat item-level plateaus into peaks that taper up to a global max potential item level.

    When you earn an item from nearly any endgame source (dungeon, raid, world quest, PvP strongbox, mission, etc.), it has a chance of upgrading its quality. When looking at information on your rewards in sources like the Dungeon Journal or World Quest display, you'll see these items with a "+" next to their item level, indicating this chance to upgrade (e.g. the Dungeon Journal for Heroic Legion dungeons showing "Item Level 825+").

    While there's a bunch of math behind it all, this may be a useful way of thinking about it: When generated, these items have a chance to roll a +5 item level bonus. If that roll succeeds, the system rolls again for another +5 bonus. If that succeeds, it rolls again. This process continues until an upgrade roll fails or the global item-level ceiling is reached. That's it.

    And so, in Legion, even if you're a raider, if your friend is looking for someone to queue Heroic dungeons, you have an extra motivation to volunteer aside from pure altruism. You probably won't get an upgrade. But you might. Anything could happen.

    "Titanforged" - What's the Deal?

    Titanforged is just a label that applies when an item successfully upgrades by +15 or more item levels. It isn't really an inherent part of the system itself, but rather something we added midway through development to make it clear when you just got exceptionally lucky.

    RNG, Progression, and Prestige

    A frequent concern with the Legion item system is that the very possibility of a Mythic-raid-quality item coming from a quest or dungeon boss cheapens those rewards. But there's a huge difference between a single Mythic-quality item and a full set of gear of that quality. A player who mainly queues for Dungeon Finder and Raid Finder may end up with a couple of great raid-quality pieces, but that's a far cry from what someone who actually does high-end raiding will look like. Ditto for someone who casually queues for BGs compared to a top-rated arena player. After all, it requires far fewer lucky breaks for a Mythic Nightmare raid drop to make it to Item Level 895 than it would for a Heroic dungeon blue, by a huge margin. Your overall gear will still reflect the type and difficulty of content that you do, but a broader range of activities can be rewarding, and a broader range of players can have moments of surprise and excitement along the way.

    Another concern raised in this thread relates to the impact of randomness on competitive progression. First off, the explanation above references a "global item-level ceiling" - that's simply a cap on how far any item can upgrade, and it's a value that will be set in relation to the highest available base item levels from the most difficult available content. Once Mythic+ dungeons and the Nightmare Raid are accessible, that value will be 895 (and that's the value to which the cap is currently set in beta). But for the first couple of weeks after launch, we're planning on having a lower cap in the 850s, since there is nothing available above that base item level. In the future, as new content is introduced, the ceiling will rise accordingly. Even the very luckiest person in the world won't be walking into raids and outgearing them on day one.

    Finally, we're dealing with upgrade chances on individual item slots out of 16, belonging to individual characters out of 10-30 in a raid group. A single item won't make or break your raid's success. The law of averages suggests that raid groups that complete roughly the same amount of content will end up with roughly the same item level. We feel that the system will be a significant improvement to the individual gearing experience without harming guild competition.
    If I am reading that correctly than a player getting mythic gear would be rare while an upgraded item in general would be comparably more common to see.

    I do feel sorry guild leaders with the upcoming loot drama to be had given how much more powerful such upgrades can be compared to the prior titianforge.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2016-06-28 at 02:57 AM.

  7. #387
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    It is a bonus for everyone including non-raiders except those farming Mythic. One of its main goals is to increase the life of shorter life content like dungeons by giving players a chance at better gear even when they out gear it.
    I prety much like this system.I`m not really sure that will manage to keep myth raiding in Legion after first raid TR because IRL issues and this will gona be something who will keep me to play atleast till end of expansion
    Sarcasm on
    Now i waiting the countless number of LFR QQ topics (have prepared some popcorns already)
    Sarcasm off

  8. #388
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Axola View Post
    So, if it can drop that high ilvl, it sounds like a good design, it'll make you have to run older tier raids (and pray to RNGods)
    No it doesnt cause it will costs to much time compared to running a raid with higher chance for higher ilevel.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by spikeh View Post
    Of course complaining won't solve anything; it is Blizzard's game and they are free to do what they think is best. I was posting to clear up some misunderstandings surrounding probability and perhaps offer a view (granted, a minority) from "competitive-but-not-world-first" raiding.

    To the person who said I should play Overwatch, while I do play other competitive games i.e. Dota 2 and CSGO they are different genres and offer different experiences to WoW's large group content which I enjoy. If I were to have my way, raiding would more resemble "challenge modes" with fixed item levels that can be adjusted according to the group, with a leaderboard for each item level division.

    I approach Legion with cautious optimism. We do not yet know all the details and I trust Blizzard will be monitoring the situation to make adjustments as necessary. At the end of the day, if I no longer enjoy the game or become unable to raid due to not having enough time for grinding outside of raids then I will simply stop like any adult would.
    Yep, complaining doesn't work at all, it didn't work with waterstrider mount changes that got reverted or in case of something severe like real id it also didn't work, no sir.

  10. #390
    There's no problem here. Raiding will not be harmed whatsoever.

    Now, with the new system, you do harder content for a more consistent gear floor and not a higher ceiling. I actually think it's a really cool idea in concept as long as they don't screw it up.

    It gives players a mean to - albeit slowly - gear up their characters regardless of what content they're interested in. As someone whose desire for raiding is absolutely murdered by WoD, it's one of the things I"m most excited for in Legion, the idea that playing more can potentially reward me even if I'm not engaging in the hardest or most social activities.

    Seriously, trust me guys, if you're worried that this will hurt raiding...it won't. At all. This actually benefits raiders who want stuff to do on their off-time, and benefits doing stuff that isn't raiding, but raiding will still be the optimal way to obtain gear. You can either grind and maybe hope for that RNG drop that may or may not come, or you can kill one boss and get a fair chance at equal or near-equal ilvl. This is Blizzard's way of nicely easing players back into the mentality that playing the game more will lead to faster and more consistent gearing.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagorath View Post
    Yep, complaining doesn't work at all, it didn't work with waterstrider mount changes that got reverted or in case of something severe like real id it also didn't work, no sir.
    You quoted two successful instances, but you should consider all the failed instances; the latter by far outnumber the former over WoW's existence.

    It's fun and healthy to air some grievances but there is a point past which further energy spent simply wastes time.

    The new details released today about how the system will work was helpful and long overdue.

  12. #392
    Deleted
    It's important to note the OP picture is effectively a """bug""" if you are thinking about the first days after the launch. The upper ceiling depends on the max content available. For the first few days only up to 855 (or 850) will be possible.

  13. #393
    I loved the gear upgrade system in WoD. I am glad it has been improved for Legion.

    Thanks, Blizz.

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