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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Blizzard seems to have a real problem with anyone who doesn't play the way they envision you SHOULD play.
    I don't think you understand how game design works. The ENTIRE POINT is crafting an experience that makes it fun and rewarding for players to play the game the way you envision it should be. It's a constant struggle to prevent offering players perverse incentives to do things that aren't fun but happen to improve their performance or provide undue rewards.

    This isn't some kind of libertarian argument in favor of preventing bureaucrats from telling people to live their lives; it's a video game that is designed very, very carefully to offer players a fun experience.

    I guess most players just don't understand how many variables are arranged exactly right to make everything come together well.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Krom2040 View Post
    I don't think you understand how game design works. The ENTIRE POINT is crafting an experience that makes it fun and rewarding for players to play the game the way you envision it should be. It's a constant struggle to prevent offering players perverse incentives to do things that aren't fun but happen to improve their performance or provide undue rewards.

    This isn't some kind of libertarian argument in favor of preventing bureaucrats from telling people to live their lives; it's a video game that is designed very, very carefully to offer players a fun experience.

    I guess most players just don't understand how many variables are arranged exactly right to make everything come together well.
    I guess we've just been playing it wrong this whole time (12 years).
    Sylvanas Windrunner For Warchief 2016!!
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  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Spunt View Post
    I guess we've just been playing it wrong this whole time (12 years).
    There are always difference between the vison, and what ends up being done.
    Is there an issue with wanting consistent behaviour? not really.

    If the zoom level is so close that it causes a problem with seeing mechanics, then sure - theres a problem.
    This isnt the case though. (i play with max zoom now)

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    There are always difference between the vison, and what ends up being done.
    Is there an issue with wanting consistent behaviour? not really.

    If the zoom level is so close that it causes a problem with seeing mechanics, then sure - theres a problem.
    This isnt the case though. (i play with max zoom now)
    That's why I used the cam distance command in the first place, because its too close to see mechanics properly, especially as melee and the boss takes up the whole screen. I don't give 2 shits about how pretty things are when I'm trying to raid. But I guess my enjoyment matters less than yours.
    Sylvanas Windrunner For Warchief 2016!!
    #NoFlyNoSub, #NoFlyNoLegion, #NoFlyNoBuy, #BringBackFlight

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Krom2040 View Post
    I don't think you understand how game design works. The ENTIRE POINT is crafting an experience that makes it fun and rewarding for players to play the game the way you envision it should be. It's a constant struggle to prevent offering players perverse incentives to do things that aren't fun but happen to improve their performance or provide undue rewards.

    This isn't some kind of libertarian argument in favor of preventing bureaucrats from telling people to live their lives; it's a video game that is designed very, very carefully to offer players a fun experience.

    I guess most players just don't understand how many variables are arranged exactly right to make everything come together well.
    The problem here is that Blizzard is limiting options arbitrarily in a way that creates a problem where there didn't need to be one. And they're citing a reason which doesn't even make an ounce of sense.

    Who cares what zoom someone plays at? What's next, forcing everyone to keyboard turn so that those people who use a mouse don't have an advantage? Shall we allow the game to only run at one resolution, and lock it to 30 fps so people with stronger hardware don't have a slight edge?

    The entire issue is just stupid, and stinks of "Blizzard's Artistic Vision(tm)".

  6. #286
    Deleted
    Actually
    Compared to my camera zoom in retail isnt that bad.This will mostly have effect on movie makers because they will like to have extended camera
    Personally i think that its needs abit slight increase but overall the rooms just Foff your camera anyway (even in legion)

  7. #287
    The Lightbringer Dartz1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adlian View Post
    Worst change in legion so far. Seeing whats going on as melee was already difficult with the amount of spell effect, tons of pets and NPCs and a huge boss blocking half of my screen - i really dont get why they make it even more difficult with this change. Cant they just let the UI scale increase the camera distance up to 3.4 instead of locking it to 1.9 and let players decide how far they want their camera, not forcing them to use that distance.
    I'm gonna have to agree they should make it (optional) in the settings course don't worry guys and gals and fellow players i'm sure some graceful addon guru of a coder will create a nice fix of an addon for us to use.
    You can't take what ya can't see... *rolls d20* You rolled a natural 20* The skill of stealth is successful.

    Duelingnexus name: Jaina1337
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  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Spunt View Post
    That's why I used the cam distance command in the first place, because its too close to see mechanics properly, especially as melee and the boss takes up the whole screen. I don't give 2 shits about how pretty things are when I'm trying to raid. But I guess my enjoyment matters less than yours.
    What are you getting so defensive about?
    Whats an example of a fight mechanic where you NEED that large camera distance to handle it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartz1979 View Post
    I'm gonna have to agree they should make it (optional) in the settings course don't worry guys and gals and fellow players i'm sure some graceful addon guru of a coder will create a nice fix of an addon for us to use.
    Cant make an addon when the variables are capped.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    What are you getting so defensive about?
    Whats an example of a fight mechanic where you NEED that large camera distance to handle it?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Cant make an addon when the variables are capped.
    Go try and tank Galleon, for example, and tell me how wonderful you view is. Or Mannoroth if you need a modern example.

    There are examples in this thread and the official one, if you need more.
    Sylvanas Windrunner For Warchief 2016!!
    #NoFlyNoSub, #NoFlyNoLegion, #NoFlyNoBuy, #BringBackFlight

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Spunt View Post
    Go try and tank Galleon, for example, and tell me how wonderful you view is. Or Mannoroth if you need a modern example.

    There are examples in this thread and the official one, if you need more.

    Whats wrong with this? Your fighting a giant dinosaur thing.

    Do you not control your camera in fights? You can look left, right, behind boss if necessary.
    Do we really want WoW as a top down RTS?
    Last edited by wing5wong; 2016-06-28 at 03:19 AM.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post

    Whats wrong with this? Your fighting a giant dinosaur thing.

    Do you not control your camera in fights? You can look left, right, behind boss if necessary.
    Do we really want WoW as a top down RTS?
    Actually you can't. Those pictures are from Lissanna. She moved her camera and took shots of that view, too. It didn't work out.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post

    Whats wrong with this? Do you not control your camera in fights?
    Do we really want WoW as a top down RTS?
    I don't like being that zoomed in. If you like it, great. I don't like it and I don't support this change. Especially since the language used was it provided an unfair advantage. Never mind addons. Never mind hardware, like wider screen monitors and mice with a gajillion buttons. Never mind macros. It's the camera distance that many other people and myself prefer that was giving massive advantages over other people. What a crock.
    Sylvanas Windrunner For Warchief 2016!!
    #NoFlyNoSub, #NoFlyNoLegion, #NoFlyNoBuy, #BringBackFlight

  13. #293
    Thats interesting, because i can still see whats going on in every one of those screenshots (gallery here for reference - http://imgur.com/a/PjCwX)

    Is it a topdown full view of everything - no.
    Does it need to be/do they want it to be - no.

  14. #294
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    I am 100% against the principle that the developers (especially this group) knows best and subsequently they will remove features that they think make the experience worse regardless of what players enjoy or participate in. This extends to everything from the removal of flying, the gutting of alternate gear paths (tier on a vendor) and to be consistent maxcvar camera distance.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    Thats interesting, because i can still see whats going on in every one of those screenshots (gallery here for reference - http://imgur.com/a/PjCwX)

    Is it a topdown full view of everything - no.
    Does it need to be/do they want it to be - no.
    Her last screenshot tells the story of what happens when you "just turn your camera" or want to see what's going on with the raid. That's a damn mess, which is her point.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    Thats interesting, because i can still see whats going on in every one of those screenshots (gallery here for reference - http://imgur.com/a/PjCwX)

    Is it a topdown full view of everything - no.
    Does it need to be/do they want it to be - no.
    More power to you. I'm sure someone can do it in first person if they really preferred that view. I don't and I don't want blizzard to force me to play zoomed in because of some "imaginary" advantage it provides. You, yourself, admit that it doesn't really affect you, so that shows their whole reasoning is completely made up gibberish.
    Last edited by Spunt; 2016-06-28 at 03:30 AM. Reason: l2spell
    Sylvanas Windrunner For Warchief 2016!!
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  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Spunt View Post
    I don't like being that zoomed in. If you like it, great. I don't like it and I don't support this change. Especially since the language used was it provided an unfair advantage. Never mind addons. Never mind hardware, like wider screen monitors and mice with a gajillion buttons. Never mind macros. It's the camera distance that many other people and myself prefer that was giving massive advantages over other people. What a crock.
    Quit being so defensive lol - im not attacking you.

    His choice of words is questionable yes.

    They should have mentioned visual design aspects as reason for change rather than some sort of fairness.
    You're fighting a huge thing, it looks bigger, its harder to see, and so on.
    Being able to design encounter based on what you can see gives more room for options and adds depth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spunt View Post
    More power to you. I'm sure someone can do it in first person if they really preferred that view. I don't and I don't want blizzard to force me to play zoomed in because of some "imaginary" advantage it provides. You, yourself, admit that it doesn't really affect you, so that shows their whole reasoning is completely made up jibberage.
    Why does everything get pushed to the extremes immediately. You dont need to play in first person, its not even close..

    Why was the camera limited at all, why didnt i get to zoom out until i was 1px? WTF Blizz?
    They have to draw a limit somewhere.
    Last edited by wing5wong; 2016-06-28 at 03:33 AM.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    Quit being so defensive lol - im not attacking you.

    His choice of words is questionable yes.

    They should have mentioned visual design aspects as reason for change rather than some sort of fairness.
    You're fighting a huge thing, it looks bigger, its harder to see, and so on.
    Being able to design encounter based on what you can see gives more room for options and adds depth.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why was the camera limited at all, why didnt i get to zoom out until i was 1px? WTF Blizz?
    They have to draw a limit somewhere.
    I'm not sure where getting that I'm defensive. I thought we were having a civil discourse about camera preferences.
    Sylvanas Windrunner For Warchief 2016!!
    #NoFlyNoSub, #NoFlyNoLegion, #NoFlyNoBuy, #BringBackFlight

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Spunt View Post
    I'm not sure where getting that I'm defensive. I thought we were having a civil discourse about camera preferences.
    I don't like being that zoomed in. If you like it, great. I don't like it and I don't support this change.
    How can you discuss change when you dig your heels in immediately?

    Even I want it slightly larger, but the camera max is huge (i believe the max limit was actually boosted recently anyway, havent been on to test)
    Last edited by wing5wong; 2016-06-28 at 03:43 AM.

  20. #300


    New Legion box art using new camera settings. You are not PRE-P oh wait ...

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