Why is exclusivity bad for WoW (and other MMOs)?

[THE Bigzoman]

Special snowflaking much?

You need to understand that this is a game. I pay the same to play it as you, I should be denied content because I am not as good as you are? And because I can't get as good as you because people don't want the particular class/spec I want to play? The super bowl analogy doesn't work as all teams have a chance to see the Super Bowl, in the old way, not everyone had a chance to see content.

Also added, that what do you give Raiders who beat the raid and were fully geared to max? There was nothing ... by adding other difficulties it allowed raiders to do more.

Edit: I am editing this point do to an assumption people are making. I am not asking for the same gear or access to the same other stuff other players get. By content I am referring to story and the progression of said story.

The only one special snowflaking here is you.

You seem to be under the impression that since you pay 15 dollars a month like he does, that you spend as much resources as he does and therefore deserve the same benefits. Here's the problem with that mentality: One's time is also a resource. You've completely ignored the fact that someone who is a better player than you likely spent more of their time getting better than you did. So in reality, if they spent more time than you getting better, they deserve more than you do.

You're demanding the same for less. You're the special snowflake here, not anyone else.

[pmkaboo]

im kinda torn on this issue. more options are usually better, and obviously lfr heroes wouldnt just get good and do normal, heroic, or mythic raids just because lfr isnt around, they wouldnt do the raids at all. you also dont have people who stopped doing >lfr and moved to lfr just because its there and they dont see any point in doing the more difficult content. so from this point of view i dont see anything wrong with it.

but, i think lfr might have a bad influence on people. i started playing when wod was released, got to max level, done some dailies, dungeons, etc... then one day i decided i might try raiding, so i looked up class and raid guides, got prepared and all and jumped into lfr. id like to remind you that i had 0 previous experience with the game so i was under the impression that this is it, the glorious raiding of wow, where you just stand in one place and hit a punching bag with XX millions of hp. naturally i expected the other difficulties to be the same, but instead of XX millions of hp, the punching bag will have XXX millions of hp, so i just dropped the game, wasnt really interested in this snoozefest called raiding. lucky for me, i dont like leaving games half completed so a couple of months later, shortly before hfc release, i got back and decided to clear the other difficulties no matter how boring they are going to be and boy was i wrong in my assumptions. and from this point of view, its possible that lfr might discourage some players from ever trying to go further.

[Darththeo]

The only one special snowflaking here is you.

You seem to be under the impression that since you pay 15 dollars a month like he does, that you spend as much resources as he does and therefore deserve the same benefits. Here's the problem with that mentality: One's time is also a resource. You've completely ignored the fact that someone who is a better player than you likely spent more of their time getting better than you did. So in reality, if they spent more time than you getting better, they deserve more than you do.

You're demanding the same for less. You're the special snowflake here, not anyone else.

I don't really know how to respond to how stupid this response is. I didn't ignore the fact because time doesn't yield better players ... I have more play time than better players than and I play better than people with more time played than I have. How is time a factor at all? There was some people who will just be better. Time yields to being better players, but it isn't the default factor or even a deciding factor. I am sorry, but this was a waste of my time even to read.

I am asking for a difficulty that I can perform at and see the story. If that is a special snowflake to you, the only way that is true if you think literally everyone is a special snowflake.

[THE Bigzoman]

I don't really know how to respond to how stupid this response is. I didn't ignore the fact because time doesn't yield better players ... I have more play time than better players than I have and I play better than people with more time played than I have. Time yields to being better players, but it isn't the default factor or even a deciding factor. I am sorry, but this was a waste of my time even to read.

I am asking for a difficulty that I can perform at and see the story. If that is a special snowflake to you, the only way that is true if you think literally everyone is a special snowflake.

So one's ability to do something is in no way related to the time spent learning it?

Gotcha.

And I can dance just like Michael Jackson or sing like Justin Beiber on my first attempt. Can't anyone?

[Saiona]

I don't really know how to respond to how stupid this response is. I didn't ignore the fact because time doesn't yield better players ... I have more play time than better players than and I play better than people with more time played than I have. How is time a factor at all? There was some people who will just be better. Time yields to being better players, but it isn't the default factor or even a deciding factor. I am sorry, but this was a waste of my time even to read.

I am asking for a difficulty that I can perform at and see the story. If that is a special snowflake to you, the only way that is true if you think literally everyone is a special snowflake.

Tired of casuals stealing the term "special snowflake" WE USE THAT TERM FOR YOU.

[MonsieuRoberts]

im kinda torn on this issue. more options are usually better, and obviously lfr heroes wouldnt just get good and do normal, heroic, or mythic raids just because lfr isnt around, they wouldnt do the raids at all. you also dont have people who stopped doing >lfr and moved to lfr just because its there and they dont see any point in doing the more difficult content. so from this point of view i dont see anything wrong with it.

but, i think lfr might have a bad influence on people. i started playing when wod was released, got to max level, done some dailies, dungeons, etc... then one day i decided i might try raiding, so i looked up class and raid guides, got prepared and all and jumped into lfr. id like to remind you that i had 0 previous experience with the game so i was under the impression that this is it, the glorious raiding of wow, where you just stand in one place and hit a punching bag with XX millions of hp. naturally i expected the other difficulties to be the same, but instead of XX millions of hp, the punching bag will have XXX millions of hp, so i just dropped the game, wasnt really interested in this snoozefest called raiding. lucky for me, i dont like leaving games half completed so a couple of months later, shortly before hfc release, i got back and decided to clear the other difficulties no matter how boring they are going to be and boy was i wrong in my assumptions. and from this point of view, its possible that lfr might discourage some players from ever trying to go further.

That's the kind of thing I worry about when new people try to get into WoW on their own and are introduced to the LFR cesspool. It's such a bad look for endgame in general from the POV of someone without a solid group of raiding friends. "This is it? This is raiding? Why do people play this game?"

We didn't need that before Cataclysm. Why do we need it now is my question? What has changed to make LFR necessary? Is raiding participation really that low? Are new players really that inept that that is the only difficulty they can handle? Is it performing a role it was never intended to do?

[Badl1fe]

naturally i expected the other difficulties to be the same, but instead of XX millions of hp, the punching bag will have XXX millions of hp, so i just dropped the game, wasnt really interested in this snoozefest called raiding.

This is my only issue with LFR. I don't mind when people want the story. I get it. I really do. My issue is people think that is a representation of what actual raiding is. Sadly they can't make LFR have real mechanics be cause LFR Archi wipes get tiresome. When I queue for it on my alt hunter, I get pulled downstairs every time, then see people walk into the star and wonder why they died. Finaly get out, hit the boss twice and go right back until we wipe. There are mechanics there, no one wants to learn them do actually do them. Yea they are all there in the journal, but new players don't read that.

[Aleax]

Personally I don't like raids with 4 modes, I much prefer classic and BC progression.
It worked.

4 modes is like doing the same content 4 times in a row, I can see this is profitable for a company and its urge of money making because it makes people busy and no need to inject more real content, but for the player, there is a problem.

Yeah many people don't care to do the same things over and over again because they are used to, blah blah, but it doesn't invalidate that redoing for redoing is wrong.
And the people at blizzard moneymaking HQ in the meantime, smile

[Glorious Leader]

That's the kind of thing I worry about when new people try to get into WoW on their own and are introduced to the LFR cesspool. It's such a bad look for endgame in general from the POV of someone without a solid group of raiding friends. "This is it? This is raiding? Why do people play this game?"

We didn't need that before Cataclysm. Why do we need it now is my question? What has changed to make LFR necessary? Is raiding participation really that low? Are new players really that inept that that is the only difficulty they can handle? Is it performing a role it was never intended to do?

LFR can indeed be a difficult experience for new comers. It is still vastly better than pug raiding. As for organized guild raiding that can be just as bad as well.... all forms of raiding are bad for new comers because raiding fucking sucks. The game desperately needs small group content that awards on par with with raids. Legion is adding some systems like that back.

[Thunderball]

That's the kind of thing I worry about when new people try to get into WoW on their own and are introduced to the LFR cesspool. It's such a bad look for endgame in general from the POV of someone without a solid group of raiding friends. "This is it? This is raiding? Why do people play this game?"

We didn't need that before Cataclysm. Why do we need it now is my question? What has changed to make LFR necessary? Is raiding participation really that low? Are new players really that inept that that is the only difficulty they can handle? Is it performing a role it was never intended to do?

Well, after the success of casual raiding in WotLK Blizzard figured that maaaaaybe all those casuals could handle something more meaningful. Turns out it wasnt raiding itself that attracted a bunch of people in WotLK but a bunch of readily accessible rewards. LFR was a solution in their mind, but in the end when some of the people who started raiding in WotLK spilled into hardcore raiding, the LFR bunch had nothing to do with it. There is a big difference between accessible rewards and accessible content.

Exclusivity is good for the game, good for any MMO. It's the imperative thing that gives people motivation and drives competition. Raiding itself should be an exclusive (to an extent) thing. That's why attunements had their purpose: even thought they were bothersome and sometimes boring but they provided a barrier that deterred all the people who kinda wanted the epics but didnt have the dedication to get them.

[Osmeric]

Exclusivity is good for the game, good for any MMO. It's the imperative thing that gives people motivation and drives competition.

If exclusivity and competition is what drives people then the game is doomed, since by definition most people will fail (otherwise, the content wouldn't be exclusive). The game becomes a kind of ponzi scheme where most people will not get the thing that justifies their continuing to play.

[Starscream101]

The only one special snowflaking here is you.

You seem to be under the impression that since you pay 15 dollars a month like he does, that you spend as much resources as he does and therefore deserve the same benefits. Here's the problem with that mentality: One's time is also a resource. You've completely ignored the fact that someone who is a better player than you likely spent more of their time getting better than you did. So in reality, if they spent more time than you getting better, they deserve more than you do.

You're demanding the same for less. You're the special snowflake here, not anyone else.

My sister plays 3 times as much as I do but she will never ever be as good at raiding or the game as me. Some people are just not that great at the game but enjoy it just as much. And some people who play are disable and do it with one hand or with other disability will never be as good even tho they play way more . Time is not a resource.

[THE Bigzoman]

My sister plays 3 times as much as I do but she will never ever be as good at raiding or the game as me. Some people are just not that great at the game but enjoy it just as much. And some people who play are disable and do it with one hand or with other disability will never be as good even tho they play way more . Time is not a resource.

Thanks.

Also, just a quick tip, I meant better in absoulte terms, not relative.

[Deleted]

We didn't need that before Cataclysm. Why do we need it now is my question? What has changed to make LFR necessary? Is raiding participation really that low?

Yes, but why belive what Blizzard telsl you, eh?

[Darththeo]

So one's ability to do something is in no way related to the time spent learning it?

Gotcha.

And I can dance just like Michael Jackson or sing like Justin Beiber on my first attempt. Can't anyone?

You do know that was what you just argued for right?

- - - Updated - - -

Tired of casuals stealing the term "special snowflake" WE USE THAT TERM FOR YOU.

Please tell me this is sarcasm. A special snowflake is a person that wants to be treated special. No one is stealing it. If you want to deny people content because they aren't as good as you, you are a special snowflake because that is yours and yours only. A person who wants to be able to play the damn game isn't.

Oh you want an easier raid, sorry, if you can't do Mythic level difficulty, you don't get to raid.

[Saiona]

You do know that was what you just argued for right?

- - - Updated - - -



Please tell me this is sarcasm. A special snowflake is a person that wants to be treated special. No one is stealing it. If you want to deny people content because they aren't as good as you, you are a special snowflake because that is yours and yours only. A person who wants to be able to play the damn game isn't.

Oh you want an easier raid, sorry, if you can't do Mythic level difficulty, you don't get to raid.

Its not mythic or nothing. Its normal which only requires a semi functional brain to complete. If you can't do normal difficulty then in my opinion you don't deserve to see the raid. I didn't see anything past sunwell trash, but BC was still the pinnacle of gaming for me. So the whiny casuals are the special snowflakes. They don't want to improve they want everything dumbed down to a level they can do.

[Darththeo]

Its not mythic or nothing. Its normal which only requires a semi functional brain to complete. If you can't do normal difficulty then in my opinion you don't deserve to see the raid. I didn't see anything past sunwell trash, but BC was still the pinnacle of gaming for me. So the whiny casuals are the special snowflakes. They don't want to improve they want everything dumbed down to a level they can do.

First off, most people who are arguing for harder difficulty want it harder than normal because even that is too easy for them. Normal is fine for me. I do tend to only LFR at this point because my guild is dead and frankly most guilds only seem to be either looking for heals or Ranged DPS and I don't like either role. And those that aren't only raid on nights I am not available to raid.

Casauls aren't whining things are too hard. I haven't seen people whining things are too hard. I see them wanting rewards greater than their effort (which isn't what I am arguing for).

I see "Hardcore" players whining that things are too easy and that "casuals" are seeing content they have no right too. That is special snowflaking.

[Saiona]

First off, most people who are arguing for harder difficulty want it harder than normal because even that is too easy for them. Normal is fine for me. I do tend to only LFR at this point because my guild is dead and frankly most guilds only seem to be either looking for heals or Ranged DPS and I don't like either role. And those that aren't only raid on nights I am not available to raid.

Casauls aren't whining things are too hard. I haven't seen people whining things are too hard. I see them wanting rewards greater than their effort (which isn't what I am arguing for).

I see "Hardcore" players whining that things are too easy and that "casuals" are seeing content they have no right too. That is special snowflaking.

I'm just sick of people being able to que, sit in their base, zone in, right click the boss and get rewarded at the end of it. LFR is going to award these kids of people tier gear, potential for high ilv titanforged gear, and I believe potential for legendaries as well. Those people ruin it for everyone else. So the way to prevent that is to eliminate the que system or keep the rewards shit (as they are now)

[Osmeric]

I'm just sick of people being able to que, sit in their base, zone in, right click the boss and get rewarded at the end of it.

This game obviously isn't for you, if a basic mechanism necessary for its continued commercial survival is making you sick. For you own sake, for you physical and mental health, I insist that you stop playing it.

[Saiona]

This game obviously isn't for you, if a basic mechanism necessary for its continued commercial survival is making you sick. For you own sake, for you physical and mental health, I insist that you stop playing it.

Umm excuse me but the que,sit,zone in,right click and win method of playing this game was made available until MoP really. When I say right click I really do mean people who right click and maybe use 1 spell and do 5k dps on lfr bosses. The game was at it's most successful peak when that method of play was not possible. Not even in wrath when LFD was introduced because they would kick the lazy fucks for thinking they can be rewarded for no effort.

So no sir you are WRONG.