Acceptable number of LFR wipes?

[styil]

What do you feel is an acceptable amount of wipes per LFR boss (on average) at release? Should all bosses be virtually wipe-free (~0 wipes per boss on average)? Should we expect a couple of wipes (~2-3 wipes per boss on average)? Or should it more progressive with more wipes (~5-6 wipes per boss on average)?

[hulkgor]

First couple of weeks of LFR? A couple.

After one full year? None.

[Deleted]

None. Boss mechanics arn't even in LFR that would otherwise make it possible to wipe on.

[PassingBy]

It should depend on a boss and on a group.
But mistakes and poor performance should still be punished in LFR.

If a group is performing poorly - 100 wipes is ok.
If everyone is doing okish, and knows what the fuck they are doing - 0 is perfectly fine.

[ComputerNerd]

First couple of weeks of LFR? A couple.

After one full year? None.

Why ?

Why are the wipes happening.
How much experience do the players have.
How geared are the players.

How experienced is the player with a low threshold of wipes compared to one with a higher threshold.

[kaintk]

new raid/boss : 2 wype is acceptable because people must learn mechanic, if a third one happens, i quit because people are doignt random stupid thing or there is no leader in the raid, so its a big loss of time, if the raid is there since one month, no wype is tolerate, because everyone should know all the mechanic after a month

[GhostPanini]

I usually stay for about 3 wipes. After that I lose patience.

[Kulthar]

didn't you guys know ... there are no wipes in LFR cos its faceroll and you can all AFK to win.
/sarcasm

None. Boss mechanics arn't even in LFR that would otherwise make it possible to wipe on.

sure there aren't any boss mechanics that cause wipes..
and im the king of england.

[FuxieDK]

What do you feel is an acceptable amount of wipes per LFR boss (on average) at release? Should all bosses be virtually wipe-free (~0 wipes per boss on average)? Should we expect a couple of wipes (~2-3 wipes per boss on average)? Or should it more progressive with more wipes (~5-6 wipes per boss on average)?

According to Blizzard, 10 wipes is acceptable, since that's the max amount of Determination-stacks you can get..

[Hotmail]

Two or three is enough, beyond that people start leaving and having to wait to refills is rather unpleasant.

[Deleted]

i demand at least 1 mythic geared player! per raid if not then i am out of it no reason for me to do sub pair dps when just one of those can do all our dps for us. just need one tank smart,who doesn't stand still in shit and have 2-3 healers healing the tank and the mythic dps and me then we're golden. it's so face roll. /rant off

But really some folks idea of what's acceptable in lfr is a joke really. if more then ½ of them havn't sat foot in a raid and the other ½ is afk it's going to be a damned pain getting thou without wiping, Since most arn't running normal or mythic tactics bu the Cheese version take all the shit and just burst burst burst.

[Jtbrig7390]

What do you feel is an acceptable amount of wipes per LFR boss (on average) at release?

As many as it takes to kill the boss.

I accept the fact that those in there are not as good as me and may even be new. So we will wipe but sooner or later we get the kill and ill move on.

[zorkuus]

If you wipe on LFR, you probably should not play wow.

One person cannot control how good/bad others are.

I'd go with 3.

[Faytel]

And people wonder why Blizzard is making things more and more casual. It's not the new players it's the cynical players already in place. The answer to the original question is "as many as it takes". Ive played WoW for a number of years (9 going on 10) and I noticed around cata the player mindset has had a huge change. I was still leveling in Vanilla and something I remember from back then was people were determined. You would spend hours in trade "LFM for WC need 1 DPS ready to summon" or lets head out to SM guys and everyone rode/ran there. Also unless you were flat out trolling the group people weren't kicked or asked to leave you rode it out w/ your newest 4 friends wipe after wipe (and this wasn't even a raid environment). In cata I remember people joining a pug run of the Bosses in TB and people would leave after 1 wipe or 2. I remember thinking to myself "man these people must never raid". I was a hardcore-casual or a semi-hardcore if you will. I raided 4 nights a week for about 4-6 hrs while during progression. The idea that a PUG would be upset about a wipe blew my mind. Frankly it still does. With all my wipes in BC on Kael and in SSC, watching people fail to press the button in Mag's Keep, the frustration of LK ICC people having a hard time standing still on BQ and even the dreaded defile of the LK himself.

I think it's just conditioning I am just one of those people that remember "yes it's frustrating wiping but that will make the victory that much sweeter" also people stress each other out now w/ critiquing the smallest of things I think if people remembered this is a game to have fun and did that it could be great again. Until the internet gets over the whole "MLG Mindset" (something I coined up for my own purpose) games will suffer further from games becoming easier and easier.

On a closing note, those of you who complain about skill or lack there of in LFR there is a very important memo I think you might have over looked. "IT'S NOT FOR YOU!!" It's meant for the casual player FFS!!

/end rant

[nekobaka]

Considering LFRs target audience is non-raiders then it should be appropriately tuned for non-raiders. If it is to cater to organized raiders who do not want to do organized raiding for what ever reason then they can just suck it up.

[melodramocracy]

Wipes are absolutely trivial, so I'm not sure there's even an acceptable number to throw around.

[Laerrus]

There is something wrong with 6 stacks of determination on LFR Archimonde this late in the expansion cycle.

People were not killing stars.

Too many people were tunneling the boss and ignoring adds.

Nobody got their 1st kill achievement after we downed him.

I don't think it is a problem with the content, the content is more than easy enough for a group of complete strangers. The problem is people just don't care.

[Twistedelmo]

I wouldnt use "Optimum" Since everyone would want to sat 0.

but i would say 1-2 wipes is acceptation for most LFR groups.

[clevin]

It depends. The first time I saw Lei Shen was the first week or 2 it was out in LFR and we wiped... 6 times? But the leader was good, not flaming and we progressed each time, finally killing him. A month later, i don't think I saw any wipes on him - enough of the people who were doing LFR had seen him that they knew what was coming.

In contrast, LFR Xhul the other week was a wipefest simply because DPS weren't killing adds, no one closed the black holes, etc. If the encounter was new, eh. But this later in the life of it, that was unacceptable to me and I left after the 2nd wipe because people weren't adjusting.

That last point is key, too - a wipe where people learn and adjust is not a big deal. If they do the same thing and wipe for the same reason next time and don't show signs of getting it? I have better things to do.

[DFu4ever]

It really depends on the boss. Some LFR bosses shouldn't be wiping groups at all. Others, like Archimonde, I'd probably give a couple wipes unless everyone knows the fight.

HFC, especially the latter half, has a few really tough fights if a lot of people don't know the fight. I feel like a lot of fights in HFC were pretty uninspired with the difficulty being mostly tied to overwhelming the raid with adds and a bunch of different mechanics all at the same time, rather than figuring out fun mechanics that could stand on their own.

While I think most of the HFC fights are shitty, I don't mind the actual increase in LFR difficulty. I just wish the rewards didn't completely blow because of the passive-aggressive LFR itemizing by the devs in WoD. I don't care about set bonuses or great stats (it should increase your power, but not like regular raid gear), or that I won't get a chance at mounts or neat knick-knacks in LFR, but at least have the gear look good. I mean, give people a reason to come back to LFR that isn't just tied to grinding out a billion legendary pieces and then never setting foot in LFR again.