1. #11101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethanon View Post
    Tbh I think its very unreasonable for people to expect a full fledged plan from the leave camp already... considering they are a collection of people from different parties who have only been together for like 1 or 2 months before the vote. Hell Boris and Farage were not even on the same campaign but 2 different ones.

    Besides, there is a minimum of 2 years before the UK actually leaves. Plenty of time to get things in order imo.

    Just sounds like a lot of butthurt remainers crying because they lost. I honestly don't think the leavers would have acted as badly as the remainers if we had won instead of them.

    (Yes I voted for remain, but I acknowledge we lost, suck it up and move on with the country as a whole, instead of throwing your toys out like the Scottish government and the 'future-less youth' are doing)
    Given the Leave campaigners are responsible for the brutal murder of one MP and a racist hate campaign that has go out of so control the PM had to publicly announce action in parliament, I tend to doubt that. Remainers are by nature fairly placid, the most they would do is flick their latte froth at you.

  2. #11102
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenOrc View Post
    Haven't heard that one; they did un-invite Britain from multiple talks with the other 27 leaders this week during the EU summit. Yes great idea, don't talk with the one nation thats leaving because thats going to help the transition process.

    Seriously how is anyone regretting the vote? The EU has shown its true colours in the last couple of days.
    You don't think it makes sense to exclude someone from the legislative process when they're not part of the Union that's going to be affected by the results? You actually think the British should have a say in what's soon to be a foreign entity?
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  3. #11103
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    People confuse bureaucracy with weakness, I'd say.
    That cannot be it.
    The EU has astonishingly little bureaucracy, it is simply that effective at finding deals that apparently are satisfactory for all those member states.

  4. #11104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    It´s the lowest in more than 30 years... but still higher than it was in 2013. How does that work out in your head?
    The economy is fucked. That's the UK economy and global economy.

    You can't hide this stuff with historical allusions and cherry-picking, there's a whole range of metrics showing this across the board.

  5. #11105
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenOrc View Post
    Hypocrisy pure hypocrisy. In less than 24 hours:

    France threatens to open the boarder and send all immigrants in Calais over. (despite saying in March they wouldn't)
    Germany, France and Italy refuse to talk with Britain until article 50 is submitted.
    European commission president Jean-Claude Juncker let Britain to submit article 50 in 48 hours.

    Oh and the same time all of those leaders somberly admit the EU needs to change.

    Like I've said here before I am actually in favor of the idea of the European Union, and if it takes something a monumental as Britain leaving to fix it then I have no regrets. If it lives to become better then I would happily vote to join should an opportunity arise in the distant future. But for now is a corrupt, convoluted, bureaucratic mess.
    I like how you're misrepresenting facts on purpose to suit your narrative. Normally, I would judge in your favour and call you simply ignorant, but in your particular case I get the feeling you're doing it on purpose.

    France never threatened to open the border. Nobody uses immigrants as a weapon. Germany, France and Italy don't refuse to talk with Britain, they refuse to conduct "preliminary exit negotiations" until Article 50 is invoked. Yes, that's right, Britain wants to sneak in some extra time of negotiation and Germany says no, that's not going to happen. Why? Because that's not how Article 50 works. You don't get to "preliminary" talk about the shit unless you do it. Don't waste people's time. Start growing up and face the consequences.

    Juncker knows very well he can't force Britain to do jack shit. The EU knows this, Britain knows this. EVERYONE knows this, except you? I think not... you playin'?

    So, dial down the hyperbole a little and stop spreading nonsense.
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  6. #11106
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    Quote Originally Posted by cateran View Post
    Hmm, at least you can expect some generic plans, don`t you? Like who do they want to lead the negotiations, what are the long time hopes about EEA joining (like terms), how do they imagining the whole thing? It`s not so hard...most people have better "plans" for a weekend party...
    Exactly. They promise stuff that are unreachable.

    How do they want to stay in the EU market? By EEA membership? How do they want to persuade the EU to give them better conditions than Norway? Especially considering that the socialists and south european countries are absolutely willing to punish the UK. They want them out as fast as possible so they can be more powerful. And their plan is to see the UK fail so that noone else will try to leave. Thats the reason Hollande wants you. gone ASAP.

    Actually A. Merkel is pretty much the only UK supporter left. Tomorrow 26 leaders will try to persuade/ force her to put pressure on the UK too. Just like Renzi and Hollande yesterday already did.

  7. #11107
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    He's kinda right though. Scotland had the chance to be an independent nation and voted against it. They really deserve this treatment now
    That referendum was under quite different conditions, though. Being part of the EU was always a big issue for Scotland. England has taken that away from them now, despite their expressed will. That Scotland now thinks about a second independence referendum is really one of the most sanes consequences happening on the isle. Bitch about it all you want, that's really the one thing that makes sense.
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  8. #11108
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Those credit ratings are entirely meaningless to the US, owing to dollar supremacy around the world. To the UK, they are moderately/mildly meaningful, but mostly symbolic. But don't think they're worth nothing. Country's below A ratings in these have a genuinely hard to borrowing.
    They aren't meaningless really even if you chose to use the US as a gauge the rating of the US still inversely affects all other ratings.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    Yet. Give it time, I'm sure.
    You do not even have any left of center parties.
    So it will likely take a rather long time.

  9. #11109
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    I'm not sure about that everything I've seen on boris so far is that he's bricking it and he doesn't know what to do, I honestly hope this whole Brexit thing could turn out to be a farce or we could see things becoming so much more worse within the near future.
    I'm rooting for you guys, always have. I really hate to have to root against you if that idiot of a premier somehow makes this official or if some other idiots thinks they'll have to make it official.

    Big fan of the UK, but if I have to decide, I'll be a bigger fan of the EU. Nothing personal, you understand.
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  10. #11110
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Frankly at this point I hope the UK will leave because if not they will continue to be a pain in the ass - I have no issue with countries being critical but the UK are way too reluctant to be part of the EU.
    Meh, I understand your sentiment. I wish they'd be a full member just like France, too. But I think they're good influence on the EU as a whole. I really do not like the idea of Italy thinking they can start making the big calls that France and Germany are doing with the UK usually.

    Oh, and it would help if the UK stopped crawling up the US' butt. You're European, get used to it. You had 2k years to get over your embarassment about us. :P
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  11. #11111
    Quote Originally Posted by cateran View Post
    Hmm, at least you can expect some generic plans, don`t you? Like who do they want to lead the negotiations, what are the long time hopes about EEA joining (like terms), how do they imagining the whole thing? It`s not so hard...most people have better "plans" for a weekend party...
    Yeah you probably have a point there. A generic plan wouldn't go amiss, but i think they got thrown off by Cameron's decision to resign. think the idiots thought they had plenty of time to plan while Cameron took the flak.

    Quote Originally Posted by advanta View Post
    Given the Leave campaigners are responsible for the brutal murder of one MP and a racist hate campaign that has go out of so control the PM had to publicly announce action in parliament, I tend to doubt that. Remainers are by nature fairly placid, the most they would do is flick their latte froth at you.
    Wait really? you are actually trying to blame the leave campaign for the actions of one deluded individual and some random racists? That is naive in the extreme. Bit like blaming all Muslims for ISIS or all Germans for actions of the Nazis.

    I understand what you are trying to say but i think your bitterness has lead you to an unnecessarily extreme point of view. there would be some buthurtt leavers if they lost, but not on the scale we are seeing from our side at the minute. All these youths who's future is 'ruined' (bearing in mind most of them have never left the classroom never mind experience enough to form their own opinion), and the reaction of the Scottish government is embarrassing. The northern Irish took it in their stride and haven't cried for the death of democracy. I think if we had a 2nd vote leave would win by a larger margin, because I would switch to voting leave just to prove that you can't keep having re-votes until you get what you want. That is simply not democracy.

    I'm also embarrassed by how biased the bbc is, makes me not want to admit in public that I voted remain because I would get painted with the same brush as all those who are crying

  12. #11112
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Seems fairly substantial just based on these:
    That is because they are both not relevant.

    The first does not tell us the denomiator and mostly shows us information about the terrain and an internal comparison for the USA nothing to compare them to other countries like it should to answer the quote.
    The second only shows us the relationship between local and state investments. Why would that be relevant even?

  13. #11113
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    Completely can't say I blame you, Only idiots will go against whats good for their future.
    Calling 52% of the population idiots. Very classy.

  14. #11114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    You don't think it makes sense to exclude someone from the legislative process when they're not part of the Union that's going to be affected by the results? You actually think the British should have a say in what's soon to be a foreign entity?
    Well, the EU still has to have a dialogue with the UK so that the transition from a EU member to losing the membership will not cause major disaster. Refusing to have a dialogue with one of the most influential European countries will not really help the EU either in the long run and will only extend the transition process for no good reason.

  15. #11115
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    We, as in 70% of the 92% registered who are eligible for voting. Let me put it this way: Of 1000 eligible voters barely a third voted to leave. I guess that's what you could call dictatorship of the minority in its truest form. That's why referenda with simple majority are always running contrary to the idea of true direct democracy and are vulnerable to populists fishing for votes. If it had been fair then given the number of voters who actually came around to vote then, taking variances into account, a majority of 75% of the votes would have been required to win this. Democracy in this age of low political education is just a buzzword for ochlocratic principles espoused by a few rabble-rousers with the political competence of a shaved orang-utan.
    It just shows that the rest of population doesn't care either way, or thinks "pox on both your houses".

    It would not be solved by "direct democracy" too; people would just go "what this guy who i trust to make (bad) judgement thinks? I vote same(/other) way", and you would get the same populists running opinion shows, even if you would make voting fully mandatory (as some countries do).

  16. #11116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    Well, the EU still has to have a dialogue with the UK so that the transition from a EU member to losing the membership will not cause major disaster. Refusing to have a dialogue with one of the most influential European countries will not really help the EU either in the long run and will only extend the transition process for no good reason.
    Tell your government to trigger Article 50, then you have all the dialogue you need. It's that simple. Not EUs fault that the brexiteers are stalling.
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  17. #11117
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    Some of your posts have not made me think otherwise, plus only 70% of the UK population voted so don't hold yourself too high mmmkay, you might fall
    72% voter turnout with the majority of people not voting being 18-24. Yup, leave voters are definite idiots.

    Calm down and accept the democracy you liberals love so much (until it doesn't go your way).
    Last edited by Floopa; 2016-06-28 at 10:09 AM.

  18. #11118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manthis View Post
    Tell your government to trigger Article 50, then you have all the dialogue you need. It's that simple. Not EUs fault that the brexiteers are stalling.
    What the heck are you even talking about? I am Swedish for crying out loud. *points at Location*

  19. #11119
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    Well, the EU still has to have a dialogue with the UK so that the transition from a EU member to losing the membership will not cause major disaster. Refusing to have a dialogue with one of the most influential European countries will not really help the EU either in the long run and will only extend the transition process for no good reason.
    You seem to equate "being excluded from certain talks" with "not talking to the UK at all". Do you see how that is leading you to wrong conclusions? Even after the Brexit, the EU will talk to the UK. But you're spinning it as if the EU is going to completely ignore the existance of the UK based on the UK being excluded from talks that are at this moment considered none of their business (like the future of the EU without Britain).

    Use Occam's Razor, mate. When you hear hoofs, think horse. Not zebra. Sometimes "excluded from some talks" really just means that. And not that the UK is excluded from any interaction whatsoever, forever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Manthis View Post
    Tell your government to trigger Article 50, then you have all the dialogue you need. It's that simple. Not EUs fault that the brexiteers are stalling.
    Just to clarify, the UK and the EU countries are always talking, every day. Even right now, Cameron is probably begging his colleagues in the EU for a way out of the Brexit. Dialogue is always, always happening.

    The bit about "there will be no preliminary talks with the UK about exit negotiations" is really just that. Exactly that. No preliminary talking about exit situations. They talk about everything else, but the EU doesn't want to give the UK an early start on exit negotiations by negotiating without also starting the clock. This 2 year time limit is what the EU is concerned about.

    So please, guys... stop the nonsense bickering about there being talk or no talk.
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  20. #11120
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    Some of your posts have not made me think otherwise, plus only 70% of the UK population voted so don't hold yourself too high mmmkay, you might fall
    By that same logic then the Scottish should not be calling themselves a 'Remain' country. 1,661,191 votes for remain out of and eligible 3,987,112. The SNP are calling this a mandate for independence and that Scotland is pro EU. When in reality only 41.6% of the country actually voted to remain.

    Shit like this is why I am embarrassed of the actions and attitudes of my fellow remain voters post the results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manthis View Post
    Tell your government to trigger Article 50, then you have all the dialogue you need. It's that simple. Not EUs fault that the brexiteers are stalling.
    To be honest it is the current government that has announced it will not enact article 50 until there is a new PM elected in October. and the current government are remainers not leavers.

    I do wish they would get on with it though, so we can get some sense of stability back.
    Last edited by Sethanon; 2016-06-28 at 10:15 AM.

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