Do you believe anyone, no matter how heinous, can be redeemed?

[YUPPIE]

Pretty much the whole point of this fucking stupid ass story called Monster I've been quietly reading out of sheer boredom. There are flawed people in this tale, including murderers among others, but it tries to demonstrate evil is subjective and the closest we'll get to it is if someone twisted simply refuses to change (like the titular villain). Since then I've been talking to a more optimistic friend who claims redemption is possible for anyone, but we live in a world where this isn't a thing since we just opt to throw our world's bad guys into prisons to rot or even kill them with no therapy or anything.

I am, however, of the belief evil people cannot change and so trying to help them is meaningless.

[zenkai]

Some people who committed evil acts can be redeemed but they have to genuinely feel bad for what they did, some people though are just psychotic and they don't think what they did was wrong in the first place.

[BuckSparkles]

No, this isn't a fairy tale with happy endings all the time. Some people are just legitimately vile.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

The concept of Evil and Good is inherently wrong, subjective and fallacious.

To consider someone evil is to assume that the world revolves around humanity - which is so narcissistic considering how large the universe is.

Many cultures had different views on Good and Evil and none could agree on a definition. Killing someone is Evil. But if that person killed someone, is it still considered Evil? Then, what if that person is trying to kill you? Are you Evil for killing him/her? Should you kill people if it means that you guarantee resources for your family?

There's no Good or Evil. There's just subjective human beings who like and dislike things and who are driven by selfishness. Everyone is driven by selfishness.

[enragedgorilla]

Redemption kind of indicates making up/paying for in FULL for your past crimes/indiscretions etc.
I am not sure how Stalin/Hitler would or could be redeemed....soooo.
No, there are some acts/deeds that are so far off the charts, those "at fault" would,should and or could NEVER be "redeemed"

[Dug]

Some people cannot be redeemed, no. Their acts are too heinous and vile. Hitler/Stalin/Serial Killers/Rapists. Doesn't really matter if you feel "sorry" after the fact. You did the crime and you must do the time. Thieves, drug dealers, physical abusers etc can be redeemed but not to their victims and I wouldn't expect them to.

[Deleted]

I don't think so; once the extent of some people's actions become too severe (Hitler being the classic example of course) there is really no realistic form of restitution that can redeem (in the sense of "refund") the harm they have done to the world

I also think that well before that point is even reached, one has to ask whether the resources and goodwill and time spent in searching for redemption for truly bad people is really worth it, or whether those resources and goodwill and time could be better used to improve the lot of more deserving individuals

[Daedius]

No .

[AeneasBK]

Yes of course.

Whether it is worth the investment...

[Kontinuum]

Well, General Butt Naked is a preacher now.

[LiiLoSNK]

If the world's biggest serial killer ended up saving my mom from drowning or falling off a cliff or something, he'd be OK in my book.

[BuckSparkles]

The concept of Evil and Good is inherently wrong, subjective and fallacious.

So Hitler wasn't Evil? ISIS isn't Evil?

Other mass murderers / tyrants / other vicious people not evil?

[Deleted]

I also think that well before that point is even reached, one has to ask whether the resources and goodwill and time spent in searching for redemption for truly bad people is really worth it, or whether those resources and goodwill and time could be better used to improve the lot of more deserving individuals

You could say that this applies also in larger scale and not just with individuals. Such as, how long do we need to keep pretending that diplomacy can work with shit like North Korea?

[LiiLoSNK]

So Hitler wasn't Evil? ISIS isn't Evil?

Other mass murderers / tyrants / other vicious people not evil?

Since people weren't created with an exact set of moral instructions, it's impossible to define what is truly right or wrong. I'm sure hitler and ISIS think they're doing the right thing, so from their perspective, peaceful people are evil.

[BuckSparkles]

Since people weren't created with an exact set of moral instructions, it's impossible to define what is truly right or wrong. I'm sure hitler and ISIS think they're doing the right thing, so from their perspective, peaceful people are evil.

Problem with that mindset is it can lead people to sympathize with them when in reality those types of people need to be put down immediately.

[Revik]

I actually think it is possible but each person is different and therefore the method to redeem such individuals are not going to be the same path. That is the issue with our rehabilitation method is that everyone follows the same path and where some are able to be redeemed for others it is ineffective.

Unraveling the mystery of redeeming someone is something that may not be solved within that person's lifetime so the question becomes do we spend the time and money to even try.

[Grishnaar]

No.

There's a point after which you cross, you strip yourself of human rights.

To put it more idealistically, where a person "surrenders to evil", if I may be sort of poetic xD

After that, we are better off without that person.

[Deleted]

Only if they want to be.

[Deleted]

Problem with that mindset is it can lead people to sympathize with them when in reality those types of people need to be put down immediately.

That's exactly what's happening as we speak.

Moral and cultural relativism has to stop the second an individual's rights are wronged, and the wrongdoers need to be put down, no matter how right they think they are.

[LiiLoSNK]

Problem with that mindset is it can lead people to sympathize with them when in reality those types of people need to be put down immediately.

It's the mindset of the logical. I definitely feel sorry for ISIS members because they were born in the wrong part of the world and are brought up to do horrible fucked up things while thinking they are doing the right thing. The only reason you aren't beheading people is because you were born in the right place at the right time.