[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[Worgar]

Can anyone give me a rough estimate of how much mp we should be getting from wf outside of doomwinds?

[wordup]

Can anyone give me a rough estimate of how much mp we should be getting from wf outside of doomwinds?

Depends entirely on Mastery so an estimate like that is fairly tough.

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I believe it was wordup who said Hot Hand Lava Lashes were not much short of a non-artifact SS in terms of damage...for no cost. I can definately see HH-LL becoming top prio when it happens later on in the x-pack, even over spending Stormbringer...possibly :P
I kinda doubt that to ever be the case for non-HH-LL. We'd need insane mastery levels for that, I imagine.

I think that may have been me that said that and it's not wrong, but, the sheer amount of Mastery you'd need to put LL over the value of SB SS is colossal when the artifact gets involved, even considering the 4pc. SB-SS having the Raging Storms effect pushes it so high with the free extras with the flat 15% SS buff & Stormflurry, alongside being cheaper than LL, I'll put my chips on SB never being usurped by HH :P

[LTCrystallite]

What's everyone's opinion on Windsong and what changes do you think are necessary to make it more centric and interesting?

As of right now, the idea of putting another skill with 1/3rd uptime for the sacrifice of Boulderfist or Hot Hand feels silly to me. It just feels like a big sacrifice and I don't get how the devs think it's a good place to put something like that.

[Emophia]

If there was a glyph to change rockbitter's sound & animation I'd really like to take hothand personally, I want them phat lava lashes.

[valkhy]

What's everyone's opinion on Windsong and what changes do you think are necessary to make it more centric and interesting?

As of right now, the idea of putting another skill with 1/3rd uptime for the sacrifice of Boulderfist or Hot Hand feels silly to me. It just feels like a big sacrifice and I don't get how the devs think it's a good place to put something like that.

Windsong is a bit under Hot Hands and Boulderfist but have a good synergy with Doom Winds (Doom hammer spell) who proc Windfury. They got 45sec CD each.

"FOR NOW" buffing it is necessary to make it more interesting. But with the incoming nerf of Boulderfist, it can change maybe. But still under Hot hands if i'm right.

[Deleted]

I'll put my chips on SB never being usurped by HH :P

What about HH vs regular SS (no SB proc)?
Though with high mastery, that's probably rare enough

[Darleth]

What's everyone's opinion on Windsong and what changes do you think are necessary to make it more centric and interesting?

As of right now, the idea of putting another skill with 1/3rd uptime for the sacrifice of Boulderfist or Hot Hand feels silly to me. It just feels like a big sacrifice and I don't get how the devs think it's a good place to put something like that.

Increasing the duration or lowering the cooldown, maybe even higher damage and/or buffing the haste it gives. It doesn't really do much besides boosting Doom Winds, but outside from that, it doesn't feel good to use imo. There is really no other use for it currently, besides macroing it together with doom winds.

What about HH vs regular SS (no SB proc)?
Though with high mastery, that's probably rare enough

I dunno, but isn't BF scaling with our mastery too, since it deals nature damage? I might be wrong here, but I guess even if we would reach those absurd levels of mastery, wouldn't BF still win in that case and make Lava Lash even more obsolete?

[valkhy]

What about HH vs regular SS (no SB proc)?
Though with high mastery, that's probably rare enough

Proc Hot hand = Lava Lash dmg * 2 and free cost.
So can't be any highter in prio list

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I dunno, but isn't BF scaling with our mastery too, since it deals nature damage? I might be wrong here, but I guess even if we would reach those absurd levels of mastery, wouldn't BF still win in that case and make Lava Lash even more obsolete?

Well we know Boulderfist will get tuned in some next patch. So Hot hand might get some shine moment. They want to make some tuning to Maelstrom generation before Damage tuning.

SIGMA -- Game Designer
After Maelstrom Weapon is working properly, we'll see if the Boulderfist rotation is correct as far as pacing, and can tune the damage from there.

[wordup]

Proc Hot hand = Lava Lash dmg * 2 and free cost.
So can't be any highter in prio list

Being free is not the only factor. It does significantly less than a Stormbringer Stormstrike with the artifact factored in, all procs considered. Wasting a Stormbringer means you waste 20 MP and a whole lot of damage, wasting a Hot Hand proc means you waste 30 MP and a bit of damage. The former is definitely worse to do.

[Ranmauri]

So what I'm hearing is that Lava Lash needs a hardcore buff, or at least a buff to Doom Vortex? Would just a Doom Vortex buff give Lava Lash any additional viability, or is the ability too inherently weak right now?

[Imnick]

I wouldn't say that Lava Lash necessarily needs to be buffed.
It is low in the priority list, yes, but that's surely intended? It is a resource spending ability with no cooldown. It therefore should be your lowest priority ability that consumes maelstrom, because any lower priority ability would never be used.
Lava Lash exists to ensure that you don't cap on Maelstrom and therefore waste it, or to let you squeeze out just a bit more damage within a short window of time. It fulfils those tasks, so I don't know that it needs to be much stronger than it already is.

[Jotaux]

So what I'm hearing is that Lava Lash needs a hardcore buff, or at least a buff to Doom Vortex? Would just a Doom Vortex buff give Lava Lash any additional viability, or is the ability too inherently weak right now?

It's not that lava lash needs a buff its that we need the opportunity to use it.

[Imnick]

It's not that lava lash needs a buff its that we need the opportunity to use it.

Yeah that is more like it.
The current rate of MP generation means that there's very few times that you are at risk of capping.

We already know they are going to boost it though, so will have to wait and see for the next build if this continues to be the case.

[Jotaux]

Yeah that is more like it.
The current rate of MP generation means that there's very few times that you are at risk of capping.

We already know they are going to boost it though, so will have to wait and see for the next build if this continues to be the case.

I'm hoping the next build comes out soon, we are really just spinning our wheels till then.

[-aiko-]

Yeah I'm eagerly awaiting the next build.

I definitely understand the need to nerf maelstrom generation, but at the same time they gave us a lot of talents that use a lot of maelstrom. So it almost feels like they aren't sure what direction they want to take and we're caught in the middle. Regardless, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Ranmauri]

The main reason I ask, I suppose, is that--at least according to Finalboss' recent video--we have several abilities (CL, Overcharge, etc.) that at times feel like they effectively replace Lava Lash as a resource dump. For Overcharge that makes sense, but when our AoE ability is, per artifact perks and talents, a more viable single-target filler than our dedicated filler, isn't that, y'know, not cool? Just trying to figure out how to make Lava Lash (*groan*) "feel good to use" again.

[-aiko-]

IMO Lava Lash feels the best as a fall-back maelstrom dumper. When we have enough maelstrom to use "fun" talents (like Overcharge) every cooldown, while being able to use Lava Lash when our "fun" talents are on cooldown. Ideally they can balance things to that point.

[Imnick]

Whether or not an ability "replaces" lava lash is going to be entirely dependent on our maelstrom generation.
It's hard to tell what does or doesn't at the moment, due to the fact that it is lower than it is supposed to be.

Crash Lightning probably also needs adjusting to be less worth using on a single target (the interaction with spirit wolves to increase their single target DPS by activating alpha wolf is weird) though.

[valkhy]

Being free is not the only factor. It does significantly less than a Stormbringer Stormstrike with the artifact factored in, all procs considered. Wasting a Stormbringer means you waste 20 MP and a whole lot of damage, wasting a Hot Hand proc means you waste 30 MP and a bit of damage. The former is definitely worse to do.

Was for the regular SS vs HH Lava lash (didn't take account of the artifact)

[Ranmauri]

A beta build announcement just went out. Fingers crossed...?