Is ilvl cancer for wow...

[WintersLegion]

Have it hidden, keep it hidden, somehow block addons from showing it.

Honestly it's much more of a playerbase problem than an ilvl problem these days. People are so obsessed with pretending to be top-tier e-sports heroes that they've largely abandoned any sense of community.

And as people have already said the players will just find another way of judging your gear.

[Tijuana]

Have it hidden, keep it hidden, somehow block addons from showing it.

Honestly it's much more of a playerbase problem than an ilvl problem these days. People are so obsessed with pretending to be top-tier e-sports heroes that they've largely abandoned any sense of community.

Before add-ons, people just looked you up on the armory. Your items were never private. You have been getting looked over for 11 years, if you have been playing that long. Some of you just were not aware of it.

[Tehr]

The only problem I have with gearscore and ilvl is that it is misleading and easily acquired. I've met people with 745 ilvl that are garbage, and I've met people with 705 ilvl who deserve to be raiding with the best.

I think that they're bad, but I only think they're bad because a system of ranks via logs - an accurate and fact-based gauge of your previous performance leveled against other players - would be far superior. The downside to logging and ranking is that it's not officially supported, and can often be just as misleading as ilvl or gearscore (fight length, raid strategy, mechanics the player dealt with, early deaths, etc.).

Frankly, while ilvl and gearscore cannot provide an accurate assessment of a player's skill, they do provide a way to judge experience (are they fully Mythic geared, or do they have two Mythic pieces, many Heroic pieces, and a few normal pieces?) and potential (a player with 705 ilvl is only capable of doing so much damage, while a player with 745 ilvl is capable of doing MUCH more damage).

[Luxeley]

I don't think it's the I-level that is the issue, I think it's the achievements, especially where Pugs are concerned. It's actually extremely ridiculous to base someone's skill level on achievements or even I-lvl, so many different achievements and even gear can be purchased in game and out of game now it's ridiculous. Then again, even if I am 100% correct (which I may not be), I don't have a viable solution or alternative.

[jackofwind]

Before add-ons, people just looked you up on the armory. Your items were never private. You have been getting looked over for 11 years, if you have been playing that long. Some of you just were not aware of it.

Read the second part of the post.

- - - Updated - - -

And as people have already said the players will just find another way of judging your gear.

Read the second part of the post.

I've been playing since launch, I remember the days of reporting to the AH mailbox for inspection before getting invited to a PuG. I'm not saying there's a way to get rid of it, I'm saying that the community as a whole is much more obsessed with it now than they used to be.

I get that people always find ways to judge characters, I just recognise that the advent of gearscore in wrath and its subsequent replacement with visible ilvl really changed the face of the wow community.

[Tehr]

Read the second part of the post.

- - - Updated - - -



Read the second part of the post.

I've been playing since launch, I remember the days of reporting to the AH mailbox for inspection before getting invited to a PuG. I'm not saying there's a way to get rid of it, I'm saying that the community as a whole is much more obsessed with it now than they used to be.

I think you're being too romantic about the history of WoW.

Have it hidden, keep it hidden, somehow block addons from showing it.

Honestly it's much more of a playerbase problem than an ilvl problem these days. People are so obsessed with pretending to be top-tier e-sports heroes that they've largely abandoned any sense of community.

Gearscore was, in my experience, MUCH bigger in Wrath than it is now (since ilvl is now officially displayed and incorporated in all we do through ilvl gating), and as such I think your assumption than it's a community problem that has been progressing over the years is romantic bullshit.

People haven't changed that much, only your perception of them, and those you associate with.

[Echocho]

If a player is full BiS, you can derive info from that gear about their skill. Sure, maybe they bought like 25 carries. But, most likely if they are fully geared, they were capable of doing the content when they got said gear. So, the notion that gear means nothing about skill is a little silly.

Haven't you heard? BiS is gone, we live in diabloville now.

[Tijuana]

Read the second part of the post.

- - - Updated - - -



Read the second part of the post.

I've been playing since launch, I remember the days of reporting to the AH mailbox for inspection before getting invited to a PuG. I'm not saying there's a way to get rid of it, I'm saying that the community as a whole is much more obsessed with it now than they used to be.

I get that people always find ways to judge characters, I just recognise that the advent of gearscore in wrath and its subsequent replacement with visible ilvl really changed the face of the wow community.

The second part of your post was read by all, guy. But, it's the first part of your post that is interesting, and that's how discussions happen.

[Relapses]

I've been playing since launch, I remember the days of reporting to the AH mailbox for inspection before getting invited to a PuG. I'm not saying there's a way to get rid of it, I'm saying that the community as a whole is much more obsessed with it now than they used to be.

I remember one time back in Wrath a guy was recruiting for a PuG and he'd invite you to the group and make sure you could do at least 3k DPS on the target dummy before he'd let you stay in the raid. (This was during Ulduar/ToC times.) People will always come up with inventive and stupid ways to prejudice against other players. I really don't think it's any worse now than it has been at any time in the game's existence, it just seems that way since the tools to get the information are so easily within grasp.

[Twistedelmo]

My only issue with ilvl is if you are a great player and good with the class/spec(s) you play, but you are playing on an under geared alt and refused to join the party because you'r ilvl is 695 for raid that drops 700 and the group leader wants 710. I dunno about you but that doesn't make much sense.

[Deleted]

At least GS and achievements could be faked or fabricated when submitting to join a group. Ilvl restricts people.

[Okacz]

It seems like you're asking for a game where there is no reward structure for acquiring new gear. Item level and Gear score exist to help identify the power of the gear you have equipped. You can't have one without the other.

He's kind of right tho. Gearscore conly became a thing in later Wrath, there was no similar thing in vanilla or BC. People still used LFG channel to find people for pugs, but their criteria were different. If gearscore was needed back then, it would have been made before, it's not a difficult addon to make (at least it doesn't seem so).

Item Level is a byproduct of the current state of pugging. Instead of searching for players to have fun with and progress a bit, you're looking for players who already completed the said content, so you can farm it.

[Deathquoi]

At least GS and achievements could be faked or fabricated when submitting to join a group. Ilvl restricts people.

This is a pretty garbage way of looking at it.

[l33t]

ilvl is fine. Absolutely absurd range between max and min ilvl in expansion is not.

[Tijuana]

Is this like a big thing in some players' game time? Like, getting turned down from pugs is some big part of your wow life? I just literally never see any of this come up when I play. Maybe I don't pug as much as some but, when I do, if they don't click my name to add me, I don't sit around and brood over it.

[psyquest]

Have it hidden, keep it hidden, somehow block addons from showing it.

Honestly it's much more of a playerbase problem than an ilvl problem these days. People are so obsessed with pretending to be top-tier e-sports heroes that they've largely abandoned any sense of community.

you cant hide it. if you hide it can be quite accurately estimated by looking at stats. Then at the end, we have the same thing.

Recruit someone, he says he has the bis gear and plays great. Put him in raid. he sucks > kicked.
ilvl or no ilvl you will have people with crappy gear abusing it and people with good gear still being bad.

[Deleted]

And as people have already said the players will just find another way of judging your gear.

Like green, blue, purple when those still meant something.

Is this like a big thing in some players' game time? Like, getting turned down from pugs is some big part of your wow life? I just literally never see any of this come up when I play. Maybe I don't pug as much as some but, when I do, if they don't click my name to add me, I don't sit around and brood over it.

The worst thing I know are people who don't set an ilvl in their search setup but write it in the title. They do that for they themselves donÄT meet that requirement and want to be shoved through that dungeon.

[jackofwind]

The second part of your post was read by all, guy. But, it's the first part of your post that is interesting, and that's how discussions happen.

I'll be your guy, buddy.

[Relapses]

He's kind of right tho. Gearscore conly became a thing in later Wrath, there was no similar thing in vanilla or BC. People still used LFG channel to find people for pugs, but their criteria were different. If gearscore was needed back then, it would have been made before, it's not a difficult addon to make (at least it doesn't seem so).

Item Level is a byproduct of the current state of pugging. Instead of searching for players to have fun with and progress a bit, you're looking for players who already completed the said content, so you can farm it.

I'm not disagreeing that ilvl is used in ways which may not be intended by the developers but it's a necessary evil since even if it didn't exist, players would still find ways to prejudice against each other.

[TheDestinatus]

Are you all new are you? Item level has been a thing since vanilla. It may night have been a visible metric but it better gear was always better and people have known that from the get go. There is a reason people were admired for having a full set of t1 > t3, the gear was better. Thats no different to ilvl, you didn't get a raiding position because you just hit level 60 and had a mix of level 55 blue and green gear. People who complain about ilvl as a restriction are = to the pig that builds its house of straw and than complain that its not as study as the house made of bricks. Put the effort in, you want to have the better house/gear than either go through the proper channels or go sulk in the corner.