[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Celebhil]

reghame, if ret was hemorrhaging and lost most of his/her blood, you'd justify it as being ok :"ret is bleeding, so the pally still has some blood left, ."

If the divine storm perk is anywhere similar to the value we get from the current WoD glyph, the amount is negligible; your argument is ridiculous.

[Ulthane]

In PvP i never use BOP on myself, with an exception of duels, whether it is rated or casual PvP, honestly BOP is one of the worst defensive cds in game, even feint that u have to constantly keep up and spend resources is a better self defensive cd than BOP ... XD

The cool thing is BOP allows you to attack now so its value went waaaay up. Also given the forbearance lowering trait it increases value.

Way i see it, we have
-Meduim cd anti physical
-Long cd anti all

But sov needs to be the short cd mitigate. Hell even with the bad mobility that will help us tons.

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@Reghame so legit Healing Storm is doing 3% of your max hp before pvp talents?

[rubenmsalles]

they've already talked about Ret PvP, a page or two ago Lumineus left a link.
They want Ret to counter Mages.
It just so happens they also forget that in order to counter Mages, we need something besides Power of Wishful Thinking and incredibly potent Aura of We-Want-Ret-to-Counter-Mages

I was talking about this http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745754479
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I already trying to play Protibution but, it is so weird to dps with one hand.
It will be posible to do some instances as protibution (dps, not tank)??
=/=
in pvp environment, we need some support on ourselves. if everything is fast countered, we need shorter cd's or some protection, you know?
it's hard to say DANK! every important cd because of dispell or spellspetal (that was a gift to mages with selfhealing)
dammit, even our snare is on a long cd, if we change target is useless (with mmany other spell) and can be dispeled with 1 global

[Ulthane]

Also, i would like to say if they did the following woth greater blessings it would help tons.

-Kings: Instead of an absorb every 6 seconds it could reduce all damage taken by an AP%
-Wisdom: Tick every 3 seconds again.

Makes them more competitive imo, hell go as far as make Might 100% proc but for 10 - 15% damage.

[Deleted]

Also, i would like to say if they did the following woth greater blessings it would help tons.

-Kings: Instead of an absorb every 6 seconds it could reduce all damage taken by an AP%
-Wisdom: Tick every 3 seconds again.

Makes them more competitive imo, hell go as far as make Might 100% proc but for 10 - 15% damage.

How about another change? They remove the 3 stooges an give us something useful like 10% hands of light passive and/ or they give us back Sac?
Talents buggy as fuck -> solved
hardly balance-able -> solved
piss poor support -> solved since we get back 50% support we had in WoD.

Just for the records PvE perspective. Plays beta on 110. Dungeon testing only so far doing world quests.

Ps.: golden dragon world quests get soloed by DH tanks while ret dies on splash aoe since he can´t get out of it...

[Ulthane]

How about another change? They remove the 3 stooges an give us something useful like 10% hands of light passive and/ or they give us back Sac?
Talents buggy as fuck -> solved
hardly balance-able -> solved
piss poor support -> solved since we get back 50% support we had in WoD.

Just for the records PvE perspective. Plays beta on 110. Dungeon testing only so far doing world quests.

Ps.: golden dragon world quests get soloed by DH tanks while ret dies on splash aoe since he can´t get out of it...

:c yeeeeeep

[Reghame]

The cool thing is BOP allows you to attack now so its value went waaaay up. Also given the forbearance lowering trait it increases value.

Way i see it, we have
-Meduim cd anti physical
-Long cd anti all

But sov needs to be the short cd mitigate. Hell even with the bad mobility that will help us tons.

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@Reghame so legit Healing Storm is doing 3% of your max hp before pvp talents?

its a SP value as far as im aware, but the value is about 3-5% depending on your gear before any exterior values pump the value up.

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Also, i would like to say if they did the following woth greater blessings it would help tons.

-Kings: Instead of an absorb every 6 seconds it could reduce all damage taken by an AP%
-Wisdom: Tick every 3 seconds again.

Makes them more competitive imo, hell go as far as make Might 100% proc but for 10 - 15% damage.

and your asking for kings to go from an absorb based on a AP%, to a DR based on a AP%..... thats basically the same thing, absorbs are damage reduction, not healing after all. (preventative damage compared to triage)
And wisdom still ticks every 3 seconds.

[ruiizu]

I was talking about this http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745754479
=/=
I already trying to play Protibution but, it is so weird to dps with one hand.
It will be posible to do some instances as protibution (dps, not tank)??
=/=
in pvp environment, we need some support on ourselves. if everything is fast countered, we need shorter cd's or some protection, you know?
it's hard to say DANK! every important cd because of dispell or spellspetal (that was a gift to mages with selfhealing)
dammit, even our snare is on a long cd, if we change target is useless (with mmany other spell) and can be dispeled with 1 global

Welp, my browser ate my long response, so I'm just going to make it short out of frustration of having to re-type.

BoP is pretty good and always has been, now it's pretty better. There are less classes that can dispel now and honestly unless you're being focused, your stuff doesn't get instant-dispeled all the time. Shaman, Mage, and Priests are the only dispels and only the offensive Priest and Shaman are usually ready to spam dispel.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Welp, my browser ate my long response, so I'm just going to make it short out of frustration of having to re-type.

BoP is pretty good and always has been, now it's pretty better. There are less classes that can dispel now and honestly unless you're being focused, your stuff doesn't get instant-dispeled all the time. Shaman, Mage, and Priests are the only dispels and only the offensive Priest and Shaman are usually ready to spam dispel.

Assuming you are playing against bads - yes, it won't get instant dispelled.
But its not an argument.
Always assume you're playing against bajheera teamed up with reckful and vurtne.

[Project 501D13R]

does anyone know if the equip effect from the legendary Tyelca, Ferren Marcus's Stature, is neutralized by the talent first avenger?

[Ulthane]

its a SP value as far as im aware, but the value is about 3-5% depending on your gear before any exterior values pump the value up.

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and your asking for kings to go from an absorb based on a AP%, to a DR based on a AP%..... thats basically the same thing, absorbs are damage reduction, not healing after all. (preventative damage compared to triage)
And wisdom still ticks every 3 seconds.

I thought they nerfed it back to 15? Thats what my tooltip says on beta.

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Well the dr would be on every hit taken as opposed to having to wait 6 seconds.

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Also, if thats truly the case then ds will be a big factor.

[Reghame]

I thought they nerfed it back to 15? Thats what my tooltip says on beta.

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Well the dr would be on every hit taken as opposed to having to wait 6 seconds.

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Also, if thats truly the case then ds will be a big factor.

the tooltip says 15 seconds but it has ticked every 3 seconds ever since they changed it like 10 builds ago.
the DR % would have to be abysmally low if it was always active, the problem with kings is now HOW it does it's job, its that it is just numerically weak (which can always be changed)
and yes, DS is a "big factor" when you have all traits unlocked for it. with PVP talents in the mix as well it is deceptively good at not only doing damage, but keeping you and your team going.

[Ulthane]

the tooltip says 15 seconds but it has ticked every 3 seconds ever since they changed it like 10 builds ago.
the DR % would have to be abysmally low if it was always active, the problem with kings is now HOW it does it's job, its that it is just numerically weak (which can always be changed)
and yes, DS is a "big factor" when you have all traits unlocked for it. with PVP talents in the mix as well it is deceptively good at not only doing damage, but keeping you and your team going.

Yea i can see that being good due to Healing Storm and Luminescence working in tandem. Versatility affects healing also right?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Yea i can see that being good due to Healing Storm and Luminescence working in tandem. Versatility affects healing also right?

I can not.
Would you please enlighten me exactly how a 3% teamheal at the cost of a TV can be "good"?

[Geso]

The only thing i see rets doing in arena is working in a defensive comp of which prot does the job of 10x over.

[Ulthane]

I can not.
Would you please enlighten me exactly how a 3% teamheal at the cost of a TV can be "good"?

Well if this is true i have to wonder if this is from per target hit.

So if this is in a mass cluster of targets lets say... 5.

Thats 5x this heal amount each taken into the account of luminescence. So you find yourself doing 1 of three things.

1. JV stun combo if active.
2. TV the target that needs to go down or near you.
3. Screw all and aoe for a bit til you see that one tool getting pressured. At least in this manner you have the extra healing (id this all holds true) to help mitigate a lot per se.

Im looking at this as if the healing was worthwhile. If it comes down to that it isn't then well... damn.

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The only thing i see rets doing in arena is working in a defensive comp of which prot does the job of 10x over.

XD hahahahhaa

[Morally Grey Storm]

Well if this is true i have to wonder if this is from per target hit.

So if this is in a mass cluster of targets lets say... 5.

Thats 5x this heal amount each taken into the account of luminescence. So you find yourself doing 1 of three things.

1. JV stun combo if active.
2. TV the target that needs to go down or near you.
3. Screw all and aoe for a bit til you see that one tool getting pressured. At least in this manner you have the extra healing (id this all holds true) to help mitigate a lot per se.

Im looking at this as if the healing was worthwhile. If it comes down to that it isn't then well... damn.

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XD hahahahhaa

Even if it's 3% per target hit, imagine the odds if you running into a full 5man melee cleave in arena.
Then imagine your odds of hitting any competent comp with a single tempest.
Then acknowledge yourself with rumours of 5's going away in legion.
Very gooder and much strongest heals, sure as sure.

[Ulthane]

Even if it's 3% per target hit, imagine the odds if you running into a full 5man melee cleave in arena.
Then imagine your odds of hitting any competent comp with a single tempest.
Then acknowledge yourself with rumours of 5's going away in legion.
Very gooder and much strongest heals, sure as sure.

Exactly where you find the short comings, id imagine it would be stronger in bgs. The thing is even if its a high amount of healing the comps will figure this one out.

[Reghame]

its a flat heal per person in the DS range, so if you DS you heal only once off that DS no matter if you hit 1 or 5 targets.
but heres the thing, the heal is a SP co-effecient so the number can obviously be anything but right now its a decent heal on it's own. but gets amped by multiple things. such as Versatility, wings, Echo of the highlord triggers another heal for 10% of the amount of the first (aka heal for 60k, you heal again for 6k) works on allies, works with luminescence and the cleanse talent which continues to elude me, and so on and so on.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Exactly where you find the short comings, id imagine it would be stronger in bgs. The thing is even if its a high amount of healing the comps will figure this one out.

-"Let's pick Ret into our BG comp, he will AoE nuke and heal",- said no one ever.