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  1. #41
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    you cant hide it. if you hide it can be quite accurately estimated by looking at stats. Then at the end, we have the same thing.

    Recruit someone, he says he has the bis gear and plays great. Put him in raid. he sucks > kicked.
    ilvl or no ilvl you will have people with crappy gear abusing it and people with good gear still being bad.
    IMO sucking in a raid should get you kicked and that's a better situation than not getting invited in the first place because it's assumed you'll suck.

    I guess I should also make the disclaimer that since I raid with a guild I don't have to rely on PUGs, but I do have to laugh when I see the ridiculously inflated ilvl requirements for stuff as simple as H Fel Lord (725+ for a tank/spank fight with basic movement requirements? LOL)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDestinatus View Post
    Are you all new are you? Item level has been a thing since vanilla. It may night have been a visible metric but it better gear was always better and people have known that from the get go. There is a reason people were admired for having a full set of t1 > t3, the gear was better. Thats no different to ilvl, you didn't get a raiding position because you just hit level 60 and had a mix of level 55 blue and green gear. People who complain about ilvl as a restriction are = to the pig that builds its house of straw and than complain that its not as study as the house made of bricks. Put the effort in, you want to have the better house/gear than either go through the proper channels or go sulk in the corner.
    I think you didn't read the thread, everyone here knows that ilvl has been around forever.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  2. #42
    As a casual, my gearscore is not an obvious indicator of skill. I paid for almost all of my gear in the AH or through carries, and upgrades. Draenor made it easy to push up over 700 without ever touching a real raid. Just my 2 cents.

  3. #43
    I am Murloc! Grym's Avatar
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    Because it is much better for the raid leader to personally inspect you, gear piece by gear piece, to decide whether you should be able to join the group or not.

    You can make it harder for them, you will never be able to get rid of the mentality of people wanting someone better geared, unless you get rid of gear all together.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darchi View Post
    What do you think, is ilvl now or gs before some sort of cancer for game, since that type of things in my own opinion, made wow community worse, forcing players to be more jerks and special snowflakes in game? Would you love that this sort of things never existed in wow before, even overall is not bad idea, but seeing how players use that, for me the best thing will be that ilvl or gs just gone...

    cheers!!!
    Not really cancer, cancer is a horrible illness, not some data. Also a term that really shouldn't be taken to use in a discussion.

    Now, to the answer, no. ilvl isn't 'cancer' for WoW, gearscore was. Or people demanding a high amount of ilvl for something that shouldn't need that high.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  5. #45
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I'm not disagreeing that ilvl is used in ways which may not be intended by the developers but it's a necessary evil since even if it didn't exist, players would still find ways to prejudice against each other.
    Some of those metrics are better though, such as being prejudiced against you because you die to mechanics during fights or because you don't perform your assigned tasks (ie: missing a vision/not killing adds on kilrogg).
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  6. #46
    I am Murloc! Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    people demanding a high amount of ilvl for something that shouldn't need that high.
    This is the answer.

    A hammer is not the problem, it is people who use it as a murder weapon that is the problem.

    But you will never be able to get rid of people with that mentality, so deal with it.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    IMO sucking in a raid should get you kicked and that's a better situation than not getting invited in the first place because it's assumed you'll suck.

    I guess I should also make the disclaimer that since I raid with a guild I don't have to rely on PUGs, but I do have to laugh when I see the ridiculously inflated ilvl requirements for stuff as simple as H Fel Lord (725+ for a tank/spank fight with basic movement requirements? LOL)

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    I think you didn't read the thread, everyone here knows that ilvl has been around forever.
    Therefore nullifying this entire discussion. This is a social problem and it only applies to the people trying to casually play the game. If you have a half hearted attempt at gearing yourself and want to carried through content by other people don't be surprised when you're not invited. What shocking unbelievable news.

  8. #48
    I am Murloc! Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrm View Post
    Yes, it is killing the game.

    I think that Normal/Heroic/Mythic should drop the same ilevel gear. Then if you clear heroic and mythic you really are pro not just geared.
    Also people requiring a ilevel the same or higher than the loot that will drop should be temp banned from wow.

    I would like to see the ilevel addon come back and not have it as part of the wow UI because then you can fake it for the losers.
    Then drop gear full stop.

    Gear is the BIGGEST carrot on the stick, get rid of it, see how well received ANY contents are.

  9. #49
    Item level is a fundamental part of how gear stats work.
    It has always been there.
    However it is players and players only that turned it into the measure it has become.

    This persistent demand to simplify a player, to make a quick judgement for less effort.
    That is the problem, not the means they are using.
    Players have done the same with achievements, so it isn't an item level specific problem.
    But a bigger player-created one.

    As with many things that blizzard are being blamed for, that is a problem created by and can be resolved only by players.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  10. #50
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDestinatus View Post
    Therefore nullifying this entire discussion. This is a social problem and it only applies to the people trying to casually play the game. If you have a half hearted attempt at gearing yourself and want to carried through content by other people don't be surprised when you're not invited. What shocking unbelievable news.
    I'm not disagreeing with you, only trying to look at the subject from different angles.

    I'm not sure why you seem so angry with me.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    Some of those metrics are better though, such as being prejudiced against you because you die to mechanics during fights or because you don't perform your assigned tasks (ie: missing a vision/not killing adds on kilrogg).
    So you're arguing that rather than using ilvl, we should invite people unanimously, let them fail miserably and only then boot them? Sorry, that seems much more toxic for the game's environment than making a simple broad conclusion of somebody's ability to play based off the gear they have equipped. It's not a perfect solution, but like I said, even if it didn't exist, players would still figure out ways to come to the same broad conclusions.

  12. #52
    When you're willing to take an iLvl 640 tank into Mythic HFC then it'll be a cancer.

    Until then... it's a "this is the maximum a player can handle" type of bar.
    Pay keen attention to my worder. "This is the BEST they can do" -- implying they may not do that good. The worst they can do is nothing at all but in reality that number is somewhere between zero and their iLvl.

    The cancer is people wanting others to *overgear* content because they are lazy and want "ez" mode but with better rewards.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you, only trying to look at the subject from different angles.

    I'm not sure why you seem so angry with me.
    I'm not angry, I'm despondent by the never ending barrage of stupid threads. This website is like a cross section for human life in that the exact same concepts are repeated over and over as if they have some deeper meaning when in the end the result has always been the same. Just as the majority of the world don't want to lower their own standards to help someone who puts in less effort, so does the item level debate rage on whilst ignoring human psychology. If you don't put in the effort to make you're own way through the game no one is going to respect you just like life.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDestinatus View Post
    I'm not angry, I'm despondent by the never ending barrage of stupid threads. This website is like a cross section for human life in that the exact same concepts are repeated over and over as if they have some deeper meaning when in the end the result has always been the same. Just as the majority of the world don't want to lower their own standards to help someone who puts in less effort, so does the item level debate rage on whilst ignoring human psychology. If you don't put in the effort to make you're own way through the game no one is going to respect you just like life.
    I find when I am bothered by, or disagree with a "never ending barrage of stupid threads", I tend to just ignore them and move on to something more interesting. A trick I learned on the official forums where every character makes the same 5 threads

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDestinatus View Post
    I'm not angry, I'm despondent by the never ending barrage of stupid threads. This website is like a cross section for human life in that the exact same concepts are repeated over and over as if they have some deeper meaning when in the end the result has always been the same. Just as the majority of the world don't want to lower their own standards to help someone who puts in less effort, so does the item level debate rage on whilst ignoring human psychology. If you don't put in the effort to make you're own way through the game no one is going to respect you just like life.
    ...Whoa, that got deep, real fast. O_o;

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    ...Whoa, that got deep, real fast. O_o;
    Can't wait, 3 months from now as legion gets into full swing this website will be alive with "Ilvl is ruining the game, remove X content because I don't like it, no flying ruined the game" blah blah blah.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    If a player is full BiS, you can derive info from that gear about their skill. Sure, maybe they bought like 25 carries. But, most likely if they are fully geared, they were capable of doing the content when they got said gear. So, the notion that gear means nothing about skill is a little silly.
    They didn't get that gear on their own, they had a lot of help, which says nothing about skill but rather about the groups they were in. Especially since there a now more than one way to get gear. You wouldn't believe how often I've seen "pro" players behave and fail like total fcktwats while boasting about their ilvl. You can tell a lot about a person's play style and whether or not they're real or boosted.

  18. #58
    I miss gearscore.
    Check out my livestream and follow me on twitter.
    /
    I Livestream and do giveaways.

  19. #59
    Brewmaster Vayshan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WintersLegion View Post
    Most people already know that Ilvl doesn't mean someone is skilled but they need some measurement of how good this person this person might be. So they take the person with the higher ilvl since at least even if they aren't that great the extra stats will cover some of that. As two people with the same skill but different ilvls the one with the higher ilvl will do more dps.
    Yes, but then it is still the skill that makes the difference. Gear is not an indication of that. It's the performance with said gear that shows skill/class knowledge.
    Last edited by Vayshan; 2016-06-28 at 06:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosonia View Post
    Heroics are heroics for a reason.. if you cant do heroics, you cant raid.. its the proper path...
    ...Blizzard has gone the mile and added LFR for those people, but nerfing normal and hc modes is just plain stupid. The Burning Legion didn't get pushed back by lining up a thousand arcane mages spamming AB. It took work work work.

  20. #60
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    People were asking for full T5 in TBC for heroics if they wanted to badge farm. This behavior is nothing new.

    Ironically, given how GearScore weighted weapons, trinkets, and certain other equipment slots more heavily than say a neck, the current system might actually be WORSE than GS, especially since they really improved it in Cata. Enchant scoring, other things that websites like WoWHeroes use...
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, I give up. This is pointless.
    Many Multitudes Online Constantly Harping About Minor Problems
    FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS

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