Random Item Upgrades, Dominate Mind Disabled in PvP, Movie Pre-Order, Ret Preview

[Zoldor]

So, unless I'm reading wrong, is there any reason to attempt world content outside leveling until Mythic+ and Nightmare Raid opens? Since before then the cap is like 850s and after the open jumps to 895? So level to cap, then stop so you don't chance getting gear that sucks, when in a couple weeks it could be awesome?

I'm not saying this is the best route, I'm just a little confused as to way the delay, and it seems to make me want to limit my at max level gear gain outside of dungeons. Then again, I'l be forced to do that to complete Artifact power.

[Mhyroth]

So, unless I'm reading wrong, is there any reason to attempt world content outside leveling until Mythic+ and Nightmare Raid opens? Since before then the cap is like 850s and after the open jumps to 895? So level to cap, then stop so you don't chance getting gear that sucks, when in a couple weeks it could be awesome?

I'm not saying this is the best route, I'm just a little confused as to way the delay, and it seems to make me want to limit my at max level gear gain outside of dungeons. Then again, I'l be forced to do that to complete Artifact power.

I assume you do want to get around 850 for Raids and Mythic + tho.

[Deleted]

So, unless I'm reading wrong, is there any reason to attempt world content outside leveling until Mythic+ and Nightmare Raid opens? Since before then the cap is like 850s and after the open jumps to 895? So level to cap, then stop so you don't chance getting gear that sucks, when in a couple weeks it could be awesome?

I'm not saying this is the best route, I'm just a little confused as to way the delay, and it seems to make me want to limit my at max level gear gain outside of dungeons. Then again, I'l be forced to do that to complete Artifact power.

Depends if you want to get a possible gear advantage in the race for world first, yes.
Otherwise World Quests will be your biggest source of out door loot and they are just like daylies, so no reason to leave them out.

[Deleted]

And yet again blizzard is forcing mythic raiders into LFR.

Nope, they are not. If mythic raiders are not able to control themselves, that is not on Blizzard.

[OriginZero]

So.. if you want to have BiS gear at some point you need the luck to have the appropriate item to drop, and if that RNG is not random enough we're gonna need nothing but luck to get the best variant of the desired item....

No. If you want BIS, do the highest difficulty content. If you can't do the highest level content, then you still have a chance at BIS with a little RNG tossed in. Sheesh.

Look at it like this:

Old model:

Normal raids drop ilvl 600. That's it. That's all you got.

Heroic raids drop ilvl 650. That's it. That's all you got.

Mythic (highest level content) raids droped ilvl 700. That's it. That's all you got.

New Model:

Normal raids drop ilvl 600 at base but now have a chance to upgrade to even higher ilvl! You could get up to 700 right here! You'd have to be lucky but now you have that chance!

Heroic raids drop ilvl 650 base but now can drop up to 700 with luck!

Mythic drops ilvl 700, the best in the game. Even mythic raiders can supplement their gear by going to the other content if they're not having great lucks in their run.

Now there's a reason to do old content once you've completed all the other stuff but since it's RNG, you don't feel forced to do it. But if you have nothing else worth doing or if you want to help a friend, now you have a good reason.

[gr4v3r]

Nope, they are not. If mythic raiders are not able to control themselves, that is not on Blizzard.

I guess they could just continue unsubbing

[Deleted]

No. If you want BIS, do the highest difficulty content. If you can't do the highest level content, then you still have a chance at BIS with a little RNG tossed in. Sheesh.

Look at it like this:

Old model:

Normal raids drop ilvl 600. That's it. That's all you got.

Heroic raids drop ilvl 650. That's it. That's all you got.

Mythic (highest level content) raids droped ilvl 700. That's it. That's all you got.

New Model:

Normal raids drop ilvl 600 at base but now have a chance to upgrade to even higher ilvl! You could get up to 700 right here! You'd have to be lucky but now you have that chance!

Heroic raids drop ilvl 650 base but now can drop up to 700 with luck!

Mythic drops ilvl 700, the best in the game. Even mythic raiders can supplement their gear by going to the other content if they're not having great lucks in their run.

Now there's a reason to do old content once you've completed all the other stuff but since it's RNG, you don't feel forced to do it. But if you have nothing else worth doing or if you want to help a friend, now you have a good reason.

But even mythic has 15 iLevels below the Cap, so even mythic doesn't reward best in the game, it only has a chance to.

[Echo of Soul]

This new RNG heavy system have just taken all the excitement out of gearing for me, I didn't like it in D3 either. I'll probably experience all the content once on their lowest difficulties and then unsub until the next batch of content. Character progression in FFXIV is more my style and they infuse the game with content on a much more regular basis than Blizzard so I think I'll stick with that game.

I'm sure you all are taking notes :P

[Bisso]

You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
Diablo is coming to WoW

Interestingly enough, while you could have picked a ton of new features in WoW which are directly picked from Diablo. None of the above actually are in Diablo. Go figure. It's an extension to Warforge system that have been in place before Ancient items came to Diablo3.

I think what you meant to say is that, features from the 21st century are finally coming to WoW.

[SidFwuff]

I think you should read the blue post again. Even with the crazy inflated 50% it would take 21 years to have a proper chance of a mythic level item coming from LFR, and that's only 1 item.

Sure- but that's upgrading LFR up and past Mythic.

What about bumping Normal gear to Heroic? or Heroic to Mythic? What would those odds be like? Stretched across an entire guild. 20 attempts per boss per difficulty per week...

It took me over 20 kills on Council to see my Mirror drop. I used a seal every time- got two each of every other piece of gear Council dropped through Seals alone- took 5 months.

Now, what if I killed them three times per week instead? What are the odds that a normal mirror that dropped gets upgraded to Heroic iLvl? Or hell, maybe even Mythic.

And that's just current raid. Some BRF mythic trinkets were better than Heroic HFC trinkets... you farm Mythic BRF once per week the entire time you're progressing through HFC... and there's some decent odds that a Mythic BRF trinket becomes titanforged and it's better than non-titanforged mythic HFC trinkets. Wouldn't that have been nice to have until you got a titanforged mythic HFC trinket?

Now the really interesting thing: What happens if Tier 19 tier bonuses are better than Tier 20 tier bonuses?

How many item levels does Tier 19 have to be upgraded by to become superior to Tier 20? +20? +10?

Plus, from the sound of it- once Tier 20 is released, the 895 cap will be raised throughout the expansion- which means it probably won't be too uncommon to see Mythic Tier 19 that's above 895 once the cap is raised.

In other words... clearing all four difficulties, and clearing multiple raids, per week is back baby!

[Deleted]

In other words... clearing all four difficulties, and clearing multiple raids, per week is back baby!

That never existed, Vanilla and TBC only had ONE Raid difficulty so running the multiple raids wasn't too much.
But now take 4 difficulties * 2 raids that's 8 Raids a WEEK! People will BURNOUT like matches

[RuneDK]

And yet again blizzard is forcing mythic raiders into LFR. They used the math to show how hard it would be to get 895 but what about how much more reasonable it will be to get 865 or 880? In order to progress in mythic you would want heroic level gear, which with this system is possible to drop from LFR, so why would any serious raider not do it? Yes the BEST loot in the game may be impossibly rare but there is a fair chance of getting loot that could progress your mythic character in LFR, thus sending any serious raider to that mind numbing, soul draining, pointless task of jumping in circles for 3 hours while you wait on your loot slot machine.

You're not forced to do anything....This is a solid change. I'm a mythic raider and don't see this as a way to force me into LFR. If anything, it actually will make helping my less progressed friends on my main more of a benefit than it is now. Right now, friend asks hey...can you help us on so and so heroic...sure let me see what alt i can play...typically pick least geared alt jump in and help...least geared alt pretty much brings nothing to the table to help....I'm just looking for some form of character progression...With this..I will be more keen on helping on my main as there's a chance I can get much better loot.

[SidFwuff]

That never existed, Vanilla and TBC only had ONE Raid difficulty so running the multiple raids wasn't too much.
But now take 4 difficulties * 2 raids that's 8 Raids a WEEK! People will BURNOUT like matches

I played in Vanilla. We raided five days a week:

Molten Core & Onyxia for Tier 2 legs and helm (2 nights)
BWL for the rest of Tier 2
AQ40 (2 nights)

The other two nights people raided ZG and AQ20.

[Deleted]

I played in Vanilla. We raided five days a week:

Molten Core & Onyxia for Tier 2 legs and helm (2 nights)
BWL for the rest of Tier 2
AQ40 (2 nights)

The other two nights people raided ZG and AQ20.

Yes, but those 5 raids a week were not the norm, most people didn't do that amount.
With Legion you get every difficultiy bloew your highest AND all dungeons AND mythic+ to do...
So if you are raiding mythic: 4 * #raids + 3 * #dungeons + UNLIMITED mythic+ levels * #dungeons

That is some serious amount of shit to burn yourself out on.

[Glorious Leader]

"extremely low chance" not equal "never".
And i'm not talking about op-stuff from LFR, but huge variety of 1 piece of gear. Just like D3

Depends how low "extremely low chance" is. If it's really fucking low then for all intents and purposes it is never because it CAN NEVER serve as motivation to participate in any given piece of content. A good reward for participating in content is meaningless if it's a unicorn. The developers have this on backwards as usual. It's good they want to add significant rewards to other content but putting it behind a dice roll (an apparently extremely skewed one) is bad and what's worse is that it's not gonna cover every spot or have comparable set bonuses to raiding. Like they will do everything in their power to dance around the simplest fucking solution that WE KNOW WORKS. Currency acquisition at a steady pace that allows you to buy tier/trinkets/weapons on a vendor. More determinism in the game offered in activities outside of raiding that award the same gear even if it's a reduced ilvl and at a slower pace. They are apparently philosophically opposed to this on some basic level and it may require that they be fired but that's fine.

Basically if youre a raider I wouldn't worry about it. You could skip all the non raid content and be just as far ahead as if you participated in other content. You are more likely to have 4 piece bonus before you will see any upgraded mythic dungeon or world quest loot and if the set bonuses stay as stupid as they are you won't want to abandon your set bonus anyway.

[SidFwuff]

Yes, but those 5 raids a week were not the norm, most people didn't do that amount.
With Legion you get every difficultiy bloew your highest AND all dungeons AND mythic+ to do...
So if you are raiding mythic: 4 * #raids + 3 * #dungeons + UNLIMITED mythic+ levels * #dungeons

That is some serious amount of shit to burn yourself out on.

Indeed.

While some will be lucky, most will need to put in some serious effort to gear up properly.

[Deleted]

Yes, but those 5 raids a week were not the norm, most people didn't do that amount.

Yes, because all people do weekly Heroic and Mythic raiding in current WoW...

[Shakou]

ITT a bunch of people who have probably never cleared a single boss when it was current bleeding edge content, and probably have only progressed after tens of thousands of other people have done it several times complaining about a system that does not in any way make it more difficult to gear up to the level you need to clear said end game content, but instead provides you with a chance at getting a really good bonus no matter when you do said content.

Damn it Blizzard you and your silly idea of putting gear in the game that far exceeds the level you actually need to clear content so people have some incentive to keep running that content! Such a terrible loot system! Clearly they should just make it so you can grind a certain amount of currency guaranteed and buy the best gear possible so your e peen doesn't shrink! Lulz

I bet you guys didn't even realize you don't need the legendary rings at all to clear all raiding content in WOD let alone for your whole raid to have them fully lvl'd up.

All this really means is people are probably going to have a whole lot less ridiculous requirements to join some shitty pug. Big whoop. In exchange you get a system in place that allows your character to progress all of the time instead of hitting a plateau and having no meaningful way to gear up.

[Aelric70]

I guess they could just continue unsubbing

They would not be missed

[Sensa]

I would note for the record that the description of your odds of upgrading an item is completely wrong. In the example they give, using the made up chance of 50%, they claim your odds on the 3rd roll is 12.5%. That is statistically false. If each roll is independent of the previous roll the odds of you rolling heads remains constant. You have a 50% chance of rolling heads on every role. The law of large numbers says over enough roles (say 1,000,000) that you will ultimately role 50% heads and 50% tails but you can roll heads consecutively for long periods of time during the process.

What scares me the most about the system described isn't the RNG in of itself but the explanation because it appears to fundamentally misstate basic laws of probability. These are the guys that go up to a roulette table and see that red has hit 10 times in a row and think that means the probability that black will hit next spin has substantially increased when in fact it hasn't increased one iota.

If you're using fuzzy logic to explain a system you have created the system is probably fuzzy too.