BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Deleted]

Portugal with its rampant corruption and you don't account for it, it will fail no matter what.

Portugal's problem isn't much of corruption but of utter incompetence and bad banking investment decisions for the past 40 years. And behold, the Troika completely failed to attack the banking problem when they intervened in 2011. The tax machine in Portugal is actually one of the best in all EU, the problem is the tax money is used to save another bank every six months...

[Deleted]

Damn! Your Nicola Sturgeon sounds like a total bad ass! How is the social climate? Are you guys also experiencing racists attacks?

I fully agree. She was the only politican to step up in these dire times and she actually cares for the people of Scotland.

Where is Boris Johnson btw? A week ago he so wanted to be the next PM...

[Deleted]

Austerity was a miserable failure in Southern Europe because it was carried out without any prior research or plan. When you have a country like Greece that has problems collecting its taxes or Portugal with its rampant corruption and you don't account for it, it will fail no matter what.

So the UK wants to give Greece 10 billions so they don't have to follow that crazy Austerity policy?

I mean i am absolutely okay. Do so, noone will prevent this.
Noone is preventing you from giving credits to Greece. They'll never be paid back though. But as long it's your money, i am totally fine with it.

[Triks]

Portugal's problem isn't much of corruption but of utter incompetence and bad banking investment decisions for the past 40 years. And behold, the Troika completely failed to attack the banking problem when they intervened in 2011. The tax machine in Portugal is actually one of the best in all EU, the problem is the tax money is used to save another bank every six months...

Exactly - austerity was imposed without any idea how it would work.

- - - Updated - - -

I fully agree. She was the only politican to step up in these dire times and she actually cares for the people of Scotland.

Where is Boris Johnson btw? A week ago he so wanted to be the next PM...

I think he never wanted to leave

[Deleted]

Britain to be EU's 'best friend' after tariff-free trade deal: Farage
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKCN0ZE10T

This guy is hilarious.

"I hate the EU, but I keep working for them and receiving my salary". Hypocrite douche making money with his lies.

[Deleted]

Britain to be EU's 'best friend' after tariff-free trade deal: Farage
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKCN0ZE10T

This guy is hilarious.

That picture. I can't believe UK even listens to him.

Guys like him actually make it very easy for Junker and Schulz to keep their Anti EU course. You just would've had to listen to the News. He makes Schulz and Junker like they are the good and rational leaders. Which is insane because Schulz and Juncker are insane, stubborn dicks.

[Triks]

So the UK wants to give Greece 10 billions so they don't have to follow that crazy Austerity policy?

I mean i am absolutely okay. Do so, noone will prevent this.
Noone is preventing you from giving credits to Greece. They'll never be paid back though. But as long it's your money, i am totally fine with it.

That's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that before you go in and implement any kind of corrective measures you have to do research on how to do it and what are the fundamental problems of the economy.

[Deleted]

Where is Boris Johnson btw? A week ago he so wanted to be the next PM...

He's giving handjobs in golf clubs throughout the country to get on the shortlist. Lots of people with savings in the Conservative party quite ambivalent towards BoJo right now. He'll have to do one of his skits for enough of them.

[alexw]

You do realise austerity isn't just "cutting a number in half" on some spreadsheet, right?

Austerity is cutting total real terms spending. Its what they did. It failed because it causes the economy to shrink so as to leave them in the same position they were in before the cuts were made, thereby leading to Germany demanding even more austerity. This is why austerity is futile and doesn't work. And before you bring up the example of Germany in the 2000's there was no real austerity because its cuts were offset by expansion across the rest of the eurozone block, so that there were no overall system wide cuts. This isn't the case post 2008. There was no offsetting expansion. It was true, real, austerity, which just doesn't work.

[Deleted]

Exactly - austerity was imposed without any idea how it would work.

Yep. The EU leadership does have many responsibilities for the mistakes of the past 8 years and Brexit should be a wake-up call. But that means the EU failed as a concept? Absolutely not, we just need a new paradigm and kick out the neo-cons that completely failed the european people.

[Triks]

Yep. The EU leadership does have many responsibilities for the mistakes of the past 8 years and Brexit should be a wake-up call. But that means the EU failed as a concept? Absolutely not, we just need a new paradigm and kick out the neo-cons that completely failed the european people.

Agreed. We need a EU government that is lead by moderates and has young experts advising them on decisions. Cookie-cutter approaches rarely work in the real world.

[alexw]

I would argue the 35-50 year olds had way more that were totally state funded. Instead of recognising the world was changing and acting accordingly many just whinged about the change.

The young have a right to whinge because they are 100% right.

Your typical 65 year old retiree will over their lifetime each consume ~£230K more in benefits and state provided services than they will have paid in in taxes. By comparison the typical 18 year old will over their lifetime pay in ~£190K (think it was this, was a fair while ago that I perused the figures) more in taxes than they will consume in benefits and state provided services.

If anything the young should be rioting on the streets with how they have been treated.

[Kallisto]

Whatever you think of the result, I am really dissapointed with these fools protesting outside Westminster because the result didnt go the way they wanted. They want a second referendum...that isnt how democracy works people, you dont just keep voting until you get what you want.

Maybe because they see uninformed idiots essentially damaging their long term life choices and short term economic stability. 48% of the voting population essentially got shafted, this isn't a short term thing that can be changed like a general election. This is essentially a 52% of the population clearly uninformed or holding an agenda damaging the country to which the 48% the ones that saw it coming are going to suffer from.

You can say "Well it's democracy." Well so is protesting, pushing your own agenda, lobbying your MP.

[TheTaurenOrc]

That picture. I can't believe UK even listens to him.

Hey, if a guy who receives such a small portion of the vote and literally hates the EU can hold a seat for 17 years something must be broken in the system!

[Deleted]

I fully agree. She was the only politican to step up in these dire times and she actually cares for the people of Scotland.

Where is Boris Johnson btw? A week ago he so wanted to be the next PM...

Then Cameron poisoned the chalice

[Deleted]

Hey, if a guy who receives such a small portion of the vote and literally hates the EU can hold a seat for 17 years something must be broken in the system!

If Lord Berserker wasn't banned, he would be calling you fa(s)cist for such undemocratic implication!

[Shadowmelded]

Damn! Your Nicola Sturgeon sounds like a total bad ass! How is the social climate? Are you guys also experiencing racists attacks?

Haven't seen any in the news or read about any but I have no doubt there will be some, sadly. As for the other social aspect, it seems that a lot of people who voted to stay in the UK are coming out in favour of Independence. A newspaper made a claim of half a million, polls have support at 59% (65% if you exclude undecideds).

[Triks]

Haven't seen any in the news or read about any but I have no doubt there will be some, sadly. As for the other social aspect, it seems that a lot of people who voted to stay in the UK are coming out in favour of Independence. A newspaper made a claim of half a million, polls have support at 59% (65% if you exclude undecideds).

Realistically, do you see a chance of you guys leaving the UK and joining the EU as an independent country?

[Mayhem]

keep continuing to call every leave voter racist. really does make you look so much more intelligent than us leave voters.

people are missing the point. the money given to poor places in england/wales (valleys, north of england etc) go towards amazing projects. no-one can deny that. part of cardiff uni is subsidised by the eu for research purposes, and a lot of UK research as a whole is funded by EU money/governance. however to the normal person, the every day person living in these poor areas. you know, the single mother of 3 who works 9 > 3 so her children can have an education but lives on the breadline? they don't care about this money. they would rather that money be put into the NHS so prescriptions are cheaper, they would rather the money go towards schools to improve catchment areas, they would probably rather the cost of public transport go down by 10%, etc.

this is why i voted leave. yes, we are going to take a hit economically (i knew this prior, and expected it). our taxes are likely to rise maybe 2-2.5%. the economy will not be as bad as it was in 2008 however and it will recover quicker than the 2008 recession did. afterwards i fully expect the country to be in a better position. sure, that mother of 3 may not see money in her pocket go up but if NHS prescriptions go down 5%, if her child support money goes up £10/week, if public transport for her children to go school goes down by 5p/journey, the mother of 3 will be happy.

not everyone in the UK has had the opportunities 18-24 voters today have had. that's what these young people are forgetting.

But that´s not what the EU is for. These are selfmade problems.

Is there actually anything you can blame on the EU?

[Deleted]

That's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that before you go in and implement any kind of corrective measures you have to do research on how to do it and what are the fundamental problems of the economy.

Oh and the result would've been?

I mean i've heard a lot of stuff like this. But NOONE (!) up to now said what could be improved. Greece can't afford to take any additional credits, the other Euro-Nations had very very big problems telling their voters why they spend billions and billions into a sinkhole.

The only alternative would've been to throw Greece out of Euro/EU and sacrifice them. This would've been much worse than what now happened. People don't understand what bankrupt means... it means the state can't pay rents/social benefits and so on anymore. You lose all your money on your bank account. It takes years to recover.

Just look at Argentina in the early 2000s.