[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Reghame]

so reliably lets say it heals for 3% of your max HP give or take flat on it's own. Factoring in luminescence and hitting your team with it can easily boost that 3% for a single person into more than a 10%+ team differenciation in health. this stuff can quickly stack up whether or not you like it or not.

[Ulthane]

So ill say its something to look out for but not to hold your breath on. I can see how it can be very good or negligible at the same time.

[Reghame]

-"Let's pick Ret into our BG comp, he will AoE nuke and heal",- said no one ever.

it all depends on values obviously but as it is now, its certainly a decent choice.
but then again this is beta. it could all boil down to nothing if someone complains so for all i care when it hits live it could end up being very shit indeed. but as it is now on beta, its PRETTTTTY good.

[Morally Grey Storm]

it all depends on values obviously but as it is now, its certainly a decent choice.
but then again this is beta. it could all boil down to nothing if someone complains so for all i care when it hits live it could end up being very shit indeed. but as it is now on beta, its PRETTTTTY good.

Well according to a certain goddammit regiment, everything and anything is simply great and peerless regarding Ret, as he never fails or tires to report.

[Teleros]

so reliably lets say it heals for 3% of your max HP give or take flat on it's own. Factoring in luminescence and hitting your team with it can easily boost that 3% for a single person into more than a 10%+ team differenciation in health. this stuff can quickly stack up whether or not you like it or not.

But at what cost?

Remember that this is costing you a TV, which does considerably more damage than DS (assuming max buffs from talents & traits, TV = 156% DS damage, or DS = 64% TV damage).

On the plus side, this damage is spread around onto multiple targets.

On the downside, this damage is spread around on multiple targets.

Now, in the main, the objective in PvP is to kill the other guy(s), which means dealing damage. Usually, this means focusing on one person, so DS isn't very helpful there. Sure, sometimes cleave comps work (I mean genuine cleave comps obviously, not cleave-comps-that-don't-really-cleave cleave comps), but the heal really doesn't seem that awesome. If you're on the back foot at a particular point in the game, you need to either (a) heal more, or (b) push THEM onto the back foot instead. Divine Storm doesn't seem like the best tool to accomplish either, when set against (a) actual heals, and (b) Templar's Verdict.

Oh and let's not forget Luminescence has a 10yd range, meaning if your allies are to benefit from it they'll also have to be hanging around in cleave range for the enemy team. Chain Lightning, Flamestrike, Blizzard, Whirlwind - two can play at that game. You DS them to heal your mates, they AE/cleave you right back...

[Deleted]

but then again this is beta.

I remember darkly that we agreed at some point that qualifying with "it´s beta" is worthless. We are maybe 3 weeks away from the prepatch hitting live servers (and ruining my chance on the archi mount, never lucky always low roll) and 2 month away from legion launch. We do have problems, which are undeniable and sub-par dmg is not the first thing on the list but a result of the top items.
FFS in instances the group has to wait for me to catch up! boss with slight push back and I´m fucked were every other melee can do normal dps. Hell I currently feel like I have every disadvantage a caster has + the normal melee restrictions.
Please for everything that is holy or unholy to you never ever again qualify anything with this "it´s beta" BS.

i was relatively silent and after I received access to the realms, giving you and anyone who said "ret is fine, just minor changes needed" the benefit of a doubt. But ret is pretty shitty compared to other classes. The short report, regarding my personal anecdotal experience you raged about, is still true for 110.

[Reghame]

beta always matters, even more so when we are talking about numbers and values #cptknusper which is what it comes down to with DS and it's heal, numbers.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Cpt just doesn't trust your judgement. Which is fine, there's more then just him that distrusts your judgement.

[ruiizu]

Hand of Hindrance is a lot stronger than most people give credit with Law and Order. 70% snare is really, really crippling (and if you didn't get close by riding in with your mount, you screwed up to begin the fight).

We need a form of offensive dispel protection though. Like a golden Hammer appears and smashes the target when they dispel our stuff, stunning them for 2 seconds...can call the debuff Censure just for shits and giggles. Also put it on the volatile stun DR (if that still exists) so it doesn't DR with HoJ.

EDIT: New build inc. Prepare your anuses. Our rotation has been playing too good.

[Deleted]

beta always matters, even more so when we are talking about numbers and values #cptknusper which is what it comes down to with DS and it's heal, numbers.

correct number don´t matter in early and mid beta but we should at this point only talk about numbers and than not about 10 20 or 30 percent ranges. We should discuss about 5% (which was blizz goal for WoD and is was not reverted at any point).
But we are not talking about numbers we do talk about the fact that ret runs around like the park break is still pulled and anything beyond 2 gear is broken. Our mobility compared to other classes looks like this:
Ret - Trabant (google it ... you will understand)
DK - VW Golf
DH - Ferrari

[Animefreak3K]

@Teleros

You're unterestimate these heals. Also it's they only way to survive in long fights (and even on short ones).
@Reghame

Divine Storm (perk) heals overall 2/3% of your health (depents on Race and Talent). As a Tauren (+PvP Talent) it heals me for about ~2% overall.
But i agree in all of your points - same thing since the Alpha-PvP-Realms started.

[ruiizu]

Looks like just damage tuning. Reduced damage on builders/spenders (not going to comment good or bad, damage might be too high). Buffs to the level 100 talents (very welcome because they kind of suck).

Huge change to Retribution. Now we take reduced damage for 20 sec when someone dies. This is going to be HILARIOUSLY good in RBGs.

Edit: Also it lasts 20 seconds now instead of 10 seconds. -30% damage taken for 20 sec...hahaha.

[Reghame]

Looks like just damage tuning. Reduced damage on builders/spenders (not going to comment good or bad, damage might be too high). Buffs to the level 100 talents (very welcome because they kind of suck).

Huge change to Retribution. Now we take reduced damage for 20 sec when someone dies. This is going to be HILARIOUSLY good in RBGs.

Edit: Also it lasts 20 seconds now instead of 10 seconds. -30% damage taken for 20 sec...hahaha.

still has +20% damage on it too, it got massively buffed IMO

[Demsi]

Holy wrath/Equality got buffed, lmao blizzard just wont admit that equality was a mistake.

also crusade is viable now, yay

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Hand of Hindrance is a lot stronger than most people give credit with Law and Order. 70% snare is really, really crippling (and if you didn't get close by riding in with your mount, you screwed up to begin the fight).

We need a form of offensive dispel protection though. Like a golden Hammer appears and smashes the target when they dispel our stuff, stunning them for 2 seconds...can call the debuff Censure just for shits and giggles. Also put it on the volatile stun DR (if that still exists) so it doesn't DR with HoJ.

EDIT: New build inc. Prepare your anuses. Our rotation has been playing too good.

I just don't care for Hand of Hindrance, I completely see it being strong. It just isn't my thing. I feel more comfortable with a passive movement speed buff. That's just me though.

You're right though. We did too much damage apparently. >.>

[Chaosinciter]

So are we going to be back to 1 shotting everyone in pvp by purposely dropping low again since they refuse to remove the fucking abomination that shouldn't be there in the first place Holy "Equality" Wrath?

[Lumineus]

Hand of Hindrance is a lot stronger than most people give credit with Law and Order.

... and if you took Divine Hammer, which is mandatory for flag defense in BGs and against stealth/invis in pretty much all Arena play and which doesn't work with Law and Order?

[Ulthane]

So..... 200% Holy Wrath......... well thats the magic number if you want it anymore and its obscene.

Also the buff to Retribution... 20% down from 50% but double duration and now reduced damage taken... couple that with a few things and it just made Holy wrath the talent you take of you have to be "3rd/4th" tank...

Tank dies, retribution, maybe Eye for an Eye ontop of it. Tons of damage reduction, legendary bracers that trigger 200% SoV instead of dying. Yea..... Holy Wrath is "viable" in that regard.

Yay for Crusade tho

Not sure why tv and zeal got nerfed.

[Chaosinciter]

So..... 200% Holy Wrath......... well thats the magic number if you want it anymore and its obscene.

Also the buff to Retribution... 20% down from 50% but double duration and now reduced damage taken... couple that with a few things and it just made Holy wrath the talent you take of you have to be "3rd/4th" tank...

Tank dies, retribution, maybe Eye for an Eye ontop of it. Tons of damage reduction, legendary bracers that trigger 200% SoV instead of dying. Yea..... Holy Wrath is "viable" in that regard.

Yay for Crusade tho

Not sure why tv and zeal got nerfed.

Not sure either but may have to do with the artifact last trait power change the damage increase for it went upto 14.5% from 10% at 20/20 even though it's the absolute most expensive thing we will ever get i wouldn't put it past em.

[Ulthane]

Not sure either but may have to do with the artifact last trait power change the damage increase for it went upto 14.5% from 10% at 20/20 even though it's the absolute most expensive thing we will ever get i wouldn't put it past em.

I was thinking that as well. I noticed a lot of nerfs went out to nearly all classes damage and then the artifact got buffed. Imo give everyone 20% damage at 20 ranks. Sounds good to me imo