BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Kallisto]

Nope the lender was not the main problem, they did not ask or force Greece to borrow. It is Greeces fault.

But the lender does have a responsibility of knowing if the lendee can repay before loaning the money

[PC2]

But the lender does have a responsibility of knowing if the lendee can repay before loaning the money

That's makes no sense unless you have a crystal ball, you can't know the unknowable. There is never a guarantee that the lendee is going to be financially successful.

[Kallisto]

That's makes no sense unless you have a crystal ball, you can't know the unknowable. There is never a guarantee that the lendee is going to be financially successful.

No but you can make an educated assessment based on the credit rating of said person, business or country.

[Bollocks]

No but you can make an educated assessment based on the credit rating of said person, business or country.

That's the thing. Greece cheated it's way.

[caervek]

A trillion??? Hahaha... even Israel only got 13 billion dollars in today's value. Russia just asked for 10 billion by today's standards. Jesus fuck... a trillion. My god... :P

That was kind of the point, it's a bit hypocritical of Germany to brutalise the Greek people over debt repayments when Germany owes so much money to Greece, flat out refuses to pay and they aren't even being asked to pay the interest on it lol.

[Deleted]

Well I guess after new elections in UK the elites will take the rein and stop this downfall. And I really hope they learned their lesson to never ask the population again, never do something idiotic as a referendum again.

[Morgarw]

what types of money gived the Germans to the Italians? I'm curious to know cause last time i checked Italy was the tirdh net contribuitor to the European Union. Italy was the 7 economy in the fucking WORLD before joining this disgrace called EU and dominated by the germans. But soon, very soon, things will change here too, like the English did.

[Deleted]

what types of money gived the Germans to the Italians? I'm curious to know cause last time i checked Italy was the tirdh net contribuitor to the European Union. Italy was the 7 economy in the fucking WORLD before joining this disgrace called EU and dominated by the germans. But soon, very soon, things will change here too, like the English did.

You will hold a referendum and then refuse to activate article 50 because you got no plan?

[Cosmic Janitor]

what types of money gived the Germans to the Italians? I'm curious to know cause last time i checked Italy was the tirdh net contribuitor to the European Union. Italy was the 7 economy in the fucking WORLD before joining this disgrace called EU and dominated by the germans. But soon, very soon, things will change here too, like the English did.

Well it was an Italian that took every German's retirement fund and turned it into pocket change. Though I can't blame every Italian for that .

[Xarkan]

what types of money gived the Germans to the Italians? I'm curious to know cause last time i checked Italy was the tirdh net contribuitor to the European Union. Italy was the 7 economy in the fucking WORLD before joining this disgrace called EU and dominated by the germans. But soon, very soon, things will change here too, like the English did.

And now you are? 8th?

[Triks]

what types of money gived the Germans to the Italians? I'm curious to know cause last time i checked Italy was the tirdh net contribuitor to the European Union. Italy was the 7 economy in the fucking WORLD before joining this disgrace called EU and dominated by the germans. But soon, very soon, things will change here too, like the English did.

It also cost 10,000 lira to get a cab.

[Deleted]

Because that would give more ammunition for the extremists. If Le Pen in France, or the Five Start Movement in Italy, etc. started to push for the talks for their own extra benefits - even if they will never get it - that would give them more voters and ultimately more hatred against the EU. Populism and a 'war on a common enemy' are very strong tools.

You are from Hungary, just look at them. Soon there will be a referendum against Brussels' immigraiton policy, and the ruling party will win on that, that's granted. It's also granted that it won't do nothing against the EU policy, because that is not how the EU works / it's a done deal already. Yet, this machination is more than enough to make Orban get more political clout and score some cheap votes in the next election.

Yeah, but I would've liked to think that the biggest part of any country is on the fence about it, and after seeing what it does to UK wouldn't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole.
There are some far right nutjobs who'd be like UKIP voters and there are the 60+ age group that voted for Orban who will try to somehow make use this BREXIT for his own good. Though he was encouraging UK to vote remain, take that as you may.

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It also cost 10,000 lira to get a cab.

Sure that can't be right. That's like the HUF now. During my one time in Italy I remember a mobile phone being 2.000.000 lira.

[Triks]

Yeah, but I would've liked to think that the biggest part of any country is on the fence about it, and after seeing what it does to UK wouldn't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. There are some far right nutjobs who'd be like UKIP voters and there are the 60+ age group that voted for Orban who will try to somehow make use this BREXIT for his own good. Though he was encouraging UK to vote remain, take that as you may.

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Sure that can't be right. That's like the HUF now. During my one time in Italy I remember a mobile phone being 2.000.000 lira.

It was from an Italian crime series I was watching back in the day. A cab in Rome was worth 10,000 lira and some vodka was 5,000.

[ati87]

No. This is just wrong. It has absolutely nothing to do with government spending. The economic fallout affects the gov's balance sheet which makes it look like its a gov spending problem but in reality it has nothing to do with that. It is all about macroeconomic imbalances between and within economies and how asset bubbles arise as a result.

I suggest you read this if you want to understand. Its a link to some work by a macroeconomist on the subject of aforesaid imbalances.

http://blog.mpettis.com/2014/03/econ...me-inequality/

Skimming threw that article of yours and he isn't mentioning Greece at all, it's about China. I'm not arguing against how spending by the normal people isn't important.

Greece didn't have a lack of spending problem, anybody claiming that Greece government wasn't spending enough money on it's people clearly is ignoring the facts the thousands of articles about the mass mismanagement of the Greek governments.

In most situations you need a mix of cuts and increases to balance things out that's normal, you can't just say ''I'm doubling down on education'' when you don't have the money to spare.

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But the lender does have a responsibility of knowing if the lendee can repay before loaning the money

And Greece with some bankers help where fudging their numbers to make it look like they had a excellent credit rating....

[Triks]

Oh wow, Cameron said that the "EU must..." no we must not, Dave.

[Floopa]

Haha Nicola Sturgeon thinks she can get another indyref for Scotland. Pretty sure that's not happening.

[Ravenblade]

what types of money gived the Germans to the Italians? I'm curious to know cause last time i checked Italy was the tirdh net contribuitor to the European Union. Italy was the 7 economy in the fucking WORLD before joining this disgrace called EU and dominated by the germans. But soon, very soon, things will change here too, like the English did.

Your economy was already in trouble long before the financial crisis in 2008 and it had nothing to do with "ebil shurmanz". Your crisis is homemade but I realize it's always easier to blame someone else for your own trouble. It's never "if I hadn't done X then Y wouldn't have happened", it's always X happened because Y happened and Y happened because of Germany!

I also doubt that in your situation quitting the EU would help, you would be a couple times worse off than the UK. Taking your country back because your pride is hurt isn't going to work in the age of globalism anymore, only a few maniacs on the fringes do still believe that. That train has long passed though.

[Triks]

Your economy was already in trouble long before the financial crisis in 2008 and it had nothing to do with "ebil shurmanz". Your crisis is homemade but I realize it's always easier to blame someone else for your own trouble. It's never "if I hadn't done X then Y wouldn't have happened", it's always X happened because Y happened and Y happened because of Germany!

I also doubt that in your situation quitting the EU would help, you would be a couple times worse off than the UK. Taking your country back because your pride is hurt isn't going to work in the age of globalism anymore, only a few maniacs on the fringes do still believe that. That train has long passed though.

I hope that after this mess this is drilled in to some people. In the 19-th and early 20-th centuries countries could get away with isolationism if they had a colonial empire or a massive army to throw their weight around with. However, even then the time called Le Belle Epoch was a time from 1878 to 1912, characterised by peace, prosperity and the free movement of goods and people around the continent.

Saying "Brittania rules the waves" is as pointless as wishing Prussia back which is as pointless as the Italians having Roman ambitions or us wishing about Great Bulgaria - it isn't going to happen and cannot happen.

[Deleted]

I hope that after this mess this is drilled in to some people. In the 19-th and early 20-th centuries countries could get away with isolationism if they had a colonial empire or a massive army to throw their weight around with. However, even then the time called Le Belle Epoch was a time from 1878 to 1912, characterised by peace, prosperity and the free movement of goods and people around the continent.

Saying "Brittania rules the waves" is as pointless as wishing Prussia back which is as pointless as the Italians having Roman ambitions or us wishing about Great Bulgaria - it isn't going to happen and cannot happen.

I wouldn't get my hopes up. Those that still think like that will never change. We'll just have to survive a few generations with them and hope that Gen Z will be better than the Baby boomers and the right fringes of everyone else.

[Deleted]

Well I guess after new elections in UK the elites will take the rein and stop this downfall. And I really hope they learned their lesson to never ask the population again, never do something idiotic as a referendum again.

What on earth are you talking about? Never allow referendums? Are you deluded to think the political elite have you best interests at heart? You would be happy for the people to have no choice on these matters? Gosh, some people are so willing to throw away their democratic power - armchair politicians who think they know how the world works. Awful.