[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Fleckens]

Pretty sad about these changes, they pretty much completely gutted void eruption without giving us anything back in return. It now requires 2 dots to deal the same damage it did before, it no longer gives you max insanity, it no longer fires off void bolts which makes sense, but it still puts void bolt on cooldown and doesn't refresh anything by itself making this a huge nerf.

I really don't see why they can't just make this spell refresh dots on all targets(or at very least main target) as we are terrible at aoe. If it was changed like this because we would be too good on single target then nerf our damage in other ways, don't do it in a way that has a pretty severely negative impact of the enjoyment of the spec as well as our performance in dungeons and soloing.

[c99892]

It might just be me but I feel like they sped up Shadow Crash's travel speed.

Definitely seems to move much faster for me, a good change tbh

[l33t]

Pretty sad about these changes, they pretty much completely gutted void eruption without giving us anything back in return. It now requires 2 dots to deal the same damage it did before, it no longer gives you max insanity, it no longer fires off void bolts which makes sense, but it still puts void bolt on cooldown and doesn't refresh anything by itself making this a huge nerf.

I really don't see why they can't just make this spell refresh dots on all targets(or at very least main target) as we are terrible at aoe. If it was changed like this because we would be too good on single target then nerf our damage in other ways, don't do it in a way that has a pretty severely negative impact of the enjoyment of the spec as well as our performance in dungeons and soloing.

Just reroll if you dislike this great shadowpriest changes. Lack of burst and aoe are the main defining things of our wonderful spec, why do you want to make it a carbon copy of mage instead?

I am so tired of you people whining here non-stop for days over non-issues. We're ok, I just killed a lvl 110 mob just fine. The sky is not falling. We're fine.

[eScar95]

At least Void Entropy felt like a spell a Shadow Priest should be casting.

Shit, rebrand Vampiric Touch as Void Entropy. Or Shadow Word: Pain. Just unify the theme a bit more.

I agree with this so much. Spriest dots don't feel Void themed at all.

[Isentropy]

Just reroll if you dislike this great shadowpriest changes. Lack of burst and aoe are the main defining things of our wonderful spec, why do you want to make it a carbon copy of mage instead?

I am so tired of you people whining here non-stop for days over non-issues. We're ok, I just killed a lvl 110 mob just fine. The sky is not falling. We're fine.

> Calls someone out for being passive aggressive
> Writes the most passive aggressive post in this thread yet

[l33t]

> Calls someone out for being passive aggressive
> Writes the most passive aggressive post in this thread yet

Overexaggerating, eh? I've seen much worse. Its not easy to not be a part of a praising crowd. Also, I really feel like these changes change nothing at all in a grand scheme of things.


Anyways, sarcasm aside, I feel quite worried. Buffing enh looks like Blizzard don't really know what they're doing.

[Isentropy]

There's really not that much mindless praising going on in this thread. You're confusing using reason with blindly agreeing with everything Blizzard does. If you can't see the difference between the two, then I'm afraid that's entirely on you.

[Fleckens]

Overexaggerating, eh? I've seen much worse. Its not easy to not be a part of a praising crowd. Also, I really feel like these changes change nothing at all in a grand scheme of things.


Anyways, sarcasm aside, I feel quite worried. Buffing enh looks like Blizzard don't really know what they're doing.

That's probably because you don't even play shadow anymore so you clearly don't get what these changes do. Unlike the things you whined about which mostly was just about our ability to level these changes actually have a quite negative impact on pretty much every aspect of playing shadow and hopefully blizzard will realise it. It's not like I'm gonna quit playing this class due to it and with enough gear it will be less noticable, but it is going to suck pretty hard at the start.

[Deleted]

I agree completely.

It's not that any of us (well maybe some of us) dislike the class at all. It's just that the changes Blizzard is making feel like hurdles to our gameplay, to our rotation's smoothness, and to the general flow of the game.

Void Eruption having a cast time? I wasn't pleased, but fine i'll improvise as good as I can.
Void Eruption NOT refreshing DoTs that ONLY LAST 14 and 18 Seconds (keep in mind we need more time than that to enter our first VF)? No. That makes no sense.
It doesn't even make sense if I go through it in my head in a step-to-step process: Why would I NOT be able to refresh my DoTs as a trade off for having to ramp-up - a trivial phase in an encounter, because EVERY OTHER class simply skips this ramp-up via burst? It just doesn't add up!

Sorry for all those caps. I just reaalllyy wanted to express the emotions in those specific words.

[Saravat]

Sorry to have offended you, but the term "aids" in regards to a game generally means bad and is used pretty often in the community.

Plenty of offensive and even hateful terms are used in "the community". That doesn't mean you should be part of that.

It's even worse that you try to rationalize/justify it.

[Kretan]

What worries me most is how immobile you become with having to constantly spam MS. This spell is looking more and more like Void Entropy more and more. Useless.

Even if you buff MS' dmg it'll be useful only on patchwerk fights with the occasional add pop. Not a fan of the talent which sucks cuz we're gonna relive WoD where we'll only be able to use 2 lvl100 talents but this time around it really will only be one until you know the fight and go stm.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

I have a feeling that mind spike might be awful for raiding but decent in dungeons with the focus on AoE there. I do not think mind spike will be good for raiding outside of the random niche fight.

- - - Updated - - -

Plenty of offensive and even hateful terms are used in "the community". That doesn't mean you should be part of that.

It's even worse that you try to rationalize/justify it.

I know this is off topic, but calling something aids is really not that bad lol. That's about the most vanilla thing I've heard complained about in a long time haha.

- - - Updated - - -

There's really not that much mindless praising going on in this thread. You're confusing using reason with blindly agreeing with everything Blizzard does. If you can't see the difference between the two, then I'm afraid that's entirely on you.

It's just not worth responding at this point imo. He just uses this thread as an emotional dumping ground for his anger.

[l33t]

That's probably because you don't even play shadow anymore so you clearly don't get what these changes do. Unlike the things you whined about which mostly was just about our ability to level these changes actually have a quite negative impact on pretty much every aspect of playing shadow and hopefully blizzard will realise it. It's not like I'm gonna quit playing this class due to it and with enough gear it will be less noticable, but it is going to suck pretty hard at the start.

Dude, seriously, be rational. A month ago you had no void eruption - and not even a mention of it, and you still killed lvl 110 mobs and everything was fine.

There's really not that much mindless praising going on in this thread. You're confusing using reason with blindly agreeing with everything Blizzard does. If you can't see the difference between the two, then I'm afraid that's entirely on you.

I never said anything about "mindless" praising. Its hard to not be a part of mainstream, that's fact. You can easily see it, in this direct quote:

It's just not worth responding at this point imo. He just uses this thread as an emotional dumping ground for his anger.

Why? I just want to take part in discussion. You know, you don't have to agree with people to take part in discussion.

[Fleckens]

Dude, seriously, be rational. A month ago you had no void eruption - and not even a mention of it, and you still killed lvl 110 mobs and everything was fine.

I know you're just trolling at this point but what you're saying is actually kind of what we are complaning about, the current void eruption is in a lot of cases just flat out worse than what we had before. If it still fired off a void bolt like last patch, or even just refreshed by itself then it would be fine. It would still be a slight downgrade from just being able to enter instantly with void bolt for single target, but at least it would be slightly better for multitarget.

[l33t]

I know you're just trolling at this point but what you're saying is actually kind of what we are complaning about, the current void eruption is in a lot of cases just flat out worse than what we had before. If it still fired off a void bolt like last patch, or even just refreshed by itself then it would be fine. It would still be a slight downgrade from just being able to enter instantly with void bolt for single target, but at least it would be slightly better for multitarget.

I am NOT trolling, damn it.

What we really need to discuss is the increased speed of insanity decay, which is not listed in changes, yet it is implemented.

Also, sometimes I really fail to understand the community. When we had a discussion earlier about auto dot refreshers for shadow, people were raging at me because "we do not need refreshers, learn to play, you just don't like dot classes, drop your priest", and all the usual sweetness like that. Now you mourn a loss of a kinda mediocre dot refresher. Go figure IMO, in its current iteration void eruption is simply not needed at all - unless it starts refreshing dots again, or stops sharing a cooldown with VB.

[Kyrik]

The assumption I am clinging to during these build notes is this:

Builds that are pushed to live test servers will almost certainly be rather arbitrary snapshots of the game. Since we don't know the long term goals that blizzard has for shadow, it's impossible to know if these changes are part of a bigger picture or not. So we view them in isolation and react with bafflement when they are counter to our feedback.

I'm trying really hard to remind myself of that every time the class appears to become incrementally worse when a new build lands.

That being said, I'm in the same position as a lot of people here; as time ticks by, I'm am increasingly concerned that when Legion launches the spec will still feel unfinished. Before it was announced, I really wanted the release date to be as late as possible because I think they have really underestimated how much time it will take to rebalance so many overhauled specs.

[Greatpippon]

I have a feeling that mind spike might be awful for raiding but decent in dungeons with the focus on AoE there. I do not think mind spike will be good for raiding outside of the random niche fight.

Maybe instant MB will help a bit with mobility? Wouldn't change dps at all but it should give some more room to MSpike: stuck to the ground outside VForm and super-mobile inside VForm.
I'm quite worried about the T100 balance and Void Eruption is also an indirect buff to LotV. StM stands by itself so, whatever the implementation of VEruption turns out to be, we really need some tweak to MSpike in order to it being a meaningful choice.

[Deleted]

I am NOT trolling, damn it.

What we really need to discuss is the increased speed of insanity decay, which is not listed in changes, yet it is implemented.

The insanity drain is fine imo. Yes, huge fucking hit in the face early on in the expansion, but as I previously mentioned: Look at what we're gaining down the line. A play style like ours simply can't be strong early on in this expansion. Its exponential increase in output is just too high. Have you watched Viklund's stream recently? He did A MILLION DPS with StM and the Legendary Shoulder. 1 MILLION. Clearly we're capable of actually doing damage when given time to ramp up. What Blizzard needs to improve is the clunkiness of the specc. Because having to refresh DotS is fucking garbage, sorry.

Not saying I disagree with you - Insanity drain should be looked at again. It's just not a "priority" in my eyes. But I might be wrong, who knows!

[davesignal]

'Potential' DPS and 'probable' DPS are two different things. I could go on another rant about the resilience of a rotation and how reliable numbers are more important than hoping a great confluence of events makes your spec great for one pull out of twenty.

Additionally, the only reason a spec can't be good from start to finish in an expansion is lazy design. There's no universal law that says if you want to be good at the end of an expansion you have to be terrible at the start.

[l33t]

The insanity drain is fine imo. Yes, huge fucking hit in the face early on in the expansion, but as I previously mentioned: Look at what we're gaining down the line. A play style like ours simply can't be strong early on in this expansion. Its exponential increase in output is just too high. Have you watched Viklund's stream recently? He did A MILLION DPS with StM and the Legendary Shoulder. 1 MILLION. Clearly we're capable of actually doing damage when given time to ramp up. What Blizzard needs to improve is the clunkiness of the specc. Because having to refresh DotS is fucking garbage, sorry.

Not saying I disagree with you - Insanity drain should be looked at again. It's just not a "priority" in my eyes. But I might be wrong, who knows!

I don't think that making a spec for Viklund only is a good game design. I hope you do realise that there is a chance you'll never see legendary shoulders as you play?

[Isentropy]

Where are you getting the information that they increased the Insanity drain again? I'm not noticing anything of the sort. Or are you actually basing your statement on the fact that one guy randomly said it in here without posting anything to back that up?