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  1. #21
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    • The High elves, politically and ideologically distinct by their refusal to use fel magic for any purpose, high ideals they refuse to relinquish even in the face of addiction pangs. They cling to the ideals of the former Quel'thalas kingdom and disdain the blood elves for abandoning those ideals. The harmony of nature, arcane and divine magic the bedrock of their society. They value the purity and sanctity of magic and abhor violation of any form of it, especially Fel magic.
    • The Blood elves: the larger group who renamed themselves Blood elf from High elf in honour of those slaughtered, adapted their ideals to gain revenge and recapture their fallen home. They spared no expense, no restraint, using magic intensely and often recklessly in a drive to succeed and never be humiliated, they were almost lost to this madness until they met A'dal the naaru and found a road back to redemption. They have no trouble using fel or dark magic and they still cling to the stance that power, including nature is to be used to serve rather than worked in harmony. Fortunately they no longer view the Light like that and may in time return to their high elven ideals.
    You've confused the different groups of BElves. Only the BElves who followed Kael'thas to Outland used fel, some of which reformed their ways under A'dal. The vast majority of BElves stayed in Quel'thalas and didn't use fel. The schism occurred over sucking mana from small animals (it's not like they were vegetarians), not the use of fel.

    Also, green eye color has nothing to do with HElf or BElf alignment.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel'Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way. (AskCDev3)
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2016-06-29 at 02:33 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    you don't think blizzard could emphasize ideological and philosophical differences like their descriptions provide?

    I've always felt High elves have been the more idealistic, pure hearted elves, whereas blood elves have viewed themselves as more realistic, more likely to swear, smoke and be more like F**k the world - while doing what it takes.

    Blood elves are more like HBO/DC comic heroes, High elves more like your CW/Marvel heroes.
    They could draw some differences, but not really significant ones, high elves could look more sickly or have some permanent damage, because they didn't deal with their addiction, like the blood elves did. After all, not feeding ones addiction could cause severe side effects, true they do not degenerate like the nightborne, but the last official statement of blizz was permanent physical or mental damage is possible.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    They could draw some differences, but not really significant ones, high elves could look more sickly or have some permanent damage, because they didn't deal with their addiction, like the blood elves did. After all, not feeding ones addiction could cause severe side effects, true they do not degenerate like the nightborne, but the last official statement of blizz was permanent physical or mental damage is possible.
    really? I always viewed the high elves as very brave for staying away from fel magic or mana sucking and bearing out their pangs without succumbing - that to me screams strength of character and fortitude. I never heard of high elves that survived looking more sickly or having permanent damage - nothing that either mainly time and re-adjustment or a good moonwell, mana stream or the restoration of the sunwell couldn't fix.

    My impression is that the blood elves couldn't handle the pangs, and Kael'thas too easily jumped at Illidan's rescue plan, despite what it involved - to me the high elf pov was using that magic spat in the face of everything they stood for. to the blood elves - everything they stood for was woefully inadequate and why they found themselves beaten by Arthas - they cast off their morality like it was a restraint and instead chose to do whatever it took to achieve their goals (which was satiate their pangs, eradicate anyone who got in their way, claim their land back, and later pilgrim to the promised land or Outland). This was the attitude all blood elves were going down although the player Belf a little less extreme compared to some of the characters we meet, however the player faction group do a U-turn when you get to Shattrath thanks to Varo'then and A'dal - but while redemption does occur, they never go back to that high elven ideal. They remain a grittier less idealistic and morally pure group.

    To me this starkly contrasts the High Elves who remain as before - except for Vereesa and the Silver Covenant, who's Blood Elven attack seems way over the top it staggers belief, it seems completely psychotic as I can't see any rational justification for it. Perhaps she viewed the Blood elves as Kael'thas' Sunsworn and didn't realize they were not all like that until much later? She also seems to have calmed down. Or was it just bad writing on whoever handled her in WotLk?

  4. #24
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    To me this starkly contrasts the High Elves who remain as before - except for Vereesa and the Silver Covenant, who's Blood Elven attack seems way over the top it staggers belief, it seems completely psychotic as I can't see any rational justification for it. Perhaps she viewed the Blood elves as Kael'thas' Sunsworn and didn't realize they were not all like that until much later? She also seems to have calmed down. Or was it just bad writing on whoever handled her in WotLk?
    Vereesa's beef with the BElves has nothing to do with ideology. She still considers Quel'Thalas to be her home and admits she would have succumbed to her addiction and joined the BElves if not for Rhonin. She lived in luxury, surrounded by magic in Dalaran. Her hatred of the BElves is because a single BElf (her cousin) kidnapped and tried to murder her half-breed children.

  5. #25
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    to add another elven faction would saturate the market, we have 2, no need for more.

  6. #26
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    They already exist in the Horde, under the name Sin'dorei.


    There's so few Quel'dorei left they're not even a culture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  7. #27
    Can we just make a high elf megathread and funnel all discussion about them into that at this point? XD

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena Emberlin View Post
    Can we just make a high elf megathread and funnel all discussion about them into that at this point? XD
    You really think that would work

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Garfurion View Post
    You really think that would work
    Worked well enough for classic/vanilla realms didn't it?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    really? I always viewed the high elves as very brave for staying away from fel magic or mana sucking and bearing out their pangs without succumbing - that to me screams strength of character and fortitude. I never heard of high elves that survived looking more sickly or having permanent damage - nothing that either mainly time and re-adjustment or a good moonwell, mana stream or the restoration of the sunwell couldn't fix.
    The high elves chose their integrity over their well being, the warcraft encyclopedia flat out states, not feeding their addiction can have permanent side effects, physical or mental. So it makes no sense for high elves to look more healthy than blood elves.

    Ever since the sunwell has been restored the blood elves have basically reverted to their high elven roots.
    Last edited by Combatbutler; 2016-06-29 at 12:05 PM.

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    sheesh you have everything from people still trying to make helves any different than blood elves, to outright suggesting that blizzard outright retconing the bloodelf story just so they can have the pretty belf model on the Alliance. So pathetic. How are people still stuck in denial. BC was so long ago. Move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The high elves chose their integrity over their well being, the warcraft encyclopedia flat out states, not feeding their addiction can have permanent side effects, physical or mental. So it makes no sense for high elves to look more healthy than blood elves.

    Ever since the sunwell has been restored the blood elves have basically reverted to their high elven roots.
    okay, I get that, but that could be a very uncommon thing, especially on the physical side, the sickly ofc would have been healed, the blood elves were mutated though to varying degrees by the fel, but the game only shows that with green glowing eyes.


    I think it would be sad if blizzard gets rid of the high elves completely though, I think they're very much loved by a lot of fans, I think they have eough or should be given enough to be distinct from Blood elves, didn't blizzard state that blood elves were bulkier more aggressive as they made them a bit more horde like, which is why they canged the male model from this?



    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/news251006wowtbc
    "It was also important that as members of the Horde that the Blood Elves gave the impression of strength and a more menacing presence," the Blizzard post noted.


    I also don't get all the high elf hate, why would anyone be threatened or feel threatened by this, which is often the impression I get in these threads, it's like people are actually playing out the fantasy feud created in game which for me just seems silly. I'm not sure why anyone should hate high elves, they're not evil, blood elves use to be them but are not, even if the differences are small, they're still a group, is it because it's horde fans making a lot of noise? I play both factions and I think I understand faction hatreds, but would never let it spill over into real though, I don't get it.

    For me, having different blood elf and high elf groups is more interesting than having blood elves just become high elves... political differences should not be the only thing that separates them, they don't have to be different models, but they can have some differences like eye colour and style as well as character difference.

    I'm not sure why anyone would want the high elves to disappear or the blood elves to become exactly like them. Isn't that a bit more boring? Sure I want that group to reconcile, but why can't they do that as 2 different groups, blood elf and high elf being contrasting views on life as well as having different friends.

    I think the summary I copy pasted in the OP hits the nail on the head really well and blizzard should expound on that - those who believe magic should be controlled and dominated at all costs, and those who believe they must be in harmony with it - it seems to be blood elf matter, and that view unique to them. I don't think the same needs to be replicated in the night elves, amongst the night elves the highborne/nightborne would dictate magical matters and night elves are very segregated, I think they universally take the harmony route which has characterized at least the alliance faction and the nightborne faction, and the uncorrupted highborne seem to favor that versus their maddened counterparts in Dire Maul - yet again the view of magic amongst humans is different and they surprisingly share a common stance with Forsaken and Worgen, they don't combine various disciplines like the night elves do or I suspect the high elves do, nor do they take the domination of magic that the blood elves do.

    In this I see very distinct patterns and behaviours in magic between the 3 magically intensive groups.
    Night elves pre Azshara use to have the arcane and nature working constantly in total harmony, I assume this is where they are at again now, separate, but used together
    High elves seemed to have a harmony of all the branches of magic, not segregated, but nature, divine, arcane working in tandem everyone was friends
    Blood elves dominate magic, arcane, fel, nature, even the light was to a point, this makes them weaker with nature, unless they resolve this
    Humans, Forsaken, Worgen - don't have a nature component to magic, and arcane and divine are separate totally, with divine often distrusting the arcane.
    Draenei seem to harmonize arcane and divine with tech - there doesn't really seem to be a nature component to them.
    Troll - seems a nature-divine thing, whiles you do have mages, the arcane s more a one-off individual thing, not a craft or established discipline in their society.
    Goblins - seem to regard magic as more a crotch to bolster tech, like trolls mages are one of things, no established schools.
    Gnomes - divine magic is reall new, arcane magic they're good at, but it's very human model based via the kirin'tor - Engineering really seems to be their thing despite their great competency in the arcane, it isn't a specific thing amongst the gnomes either.
    Dwarves - the dark irons are the ones that are magically inclined it is a thing in conjunction with elemental shamanistic magic, I specify elemental because unlike trolls who have a more wholesome nature component, dwarves seem to only have the elemental component.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    sheesh you have everything from people still trying to make helves any different than blood elves, to outright suggesting that blizzard outright retconing the bloodelf story just so they can have the pretty belf model on the Alliance. So pathetic. How are people still stuck in denial. BC was so long ago. Move on.
    please please don't make this about having high elves on the alliance playable - I acknowledged from the get go high elves are already in the alliance, and this was not about their involvement there especially with regards to being playable there.

  13. #33
    High elves and blood elves are the same race.

    End of story. Let it go
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    okay, I get that, but that could be a very uncommon thing, especially on the physical side, the sickly ofc would have been healed, the blood elves were mutated though to varying degrees by the fel, but the game only shows that with green glowing eyes.
    No they were not, the elves that really dabbled with fel magic, were those directly under Kael'thas and the vast majority of those are dead, the blood elves of Quel'thalas never actively dabbled in fel magic, the green eyes are a product of reconstruction work.


    I think it would be sad if blizzard gets rid of the high elves completely though, I think they're very much loved by a lot of fans, I think they have eough or should be given enough to be distinct from Blood elves, didn't blizzard state that blood elves were bulkier more aggressive as they made them a bit more horde like, which is why they canged the male model from this?
    High elves can be just as aggressive, just take a look of the silver covenant, their behaviour during the purge of Dalaran, it is a prime example



    For me, having different blood elf and high elf groups is more interesting than having blood elves just become high elves... political differences should not be the only thing that separates them, they don't have to be different models, but they can have some differences like eye colour and style as well as character difference.
    They are essentially the same, the difference between them is extremely small, all that somehow sets them apart is that blood elves are willing to get their hands dirty if the circumstances call for it.

    I'm not sure why anyone would want the high elves to disappear or the blood elves to become exactly like them. Isn't that a bit more boring? Sure I want that group to reconcile, but why can't they do that as 2 different groups, blood elf and high elf being contrasting views on life as well as having different friends.
    Because the high elves are nothing but a tool to further the blood elf storyline and they suck precious screentime away from playable Alliance races.

  15. #35
    The Horde already has HE and those are the BE. Wether a HE is affiliated to the Horde or Alliance is mainly defined by their physical whereabouts during the events of the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas. Why this event is a crossroad for the different allignment of the HE is because it has set in motion all the events that would result in the "creation" of the BE, aswell as set the foundation for all the political events which would ensue thereafter and result in the BE joining the Horde.

    The BE are basically all HE that were directly affected by the tainting of the Sunwell and the Scourge invasion. The BE are HE that were exposed to fel magic, whereas almost every HE that is affiliated with the Alliance wasn't and is still more or less bound to the arcane. The exposure to fel magic is what caused the change in their eyes' color and this is the easiest physical trait that allows us to differentiate the two groups.

    If you are wondering wether all of the pure High Elves that weren't affected by fel magic would ever join the Horde, then that is literally impossible. The majority of the pure High Elves have a shared history with the Alliance in regards of the Troll Wars, the First and Second War, the Outland expedition and due to personal character-based affiliation aswell.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2016-06-29 at 02:38 PM.

  16. #36
    Dreadlord saintminya's Avatar
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    There already are Horde-allied High Elves, and I don't mean Blood Elves. Lor'themar allows high elves to access the Sunwell, and due the blood elves attempting to mend the gap between HE and BE, high elves not-aligned with the Silver Covenant have relocated to Silvermoon. Outside the capital, Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher of the Reliquary has pro-actively been mending relations, trying the find a fool-proof cure for mana-addiction to fully re-united the elves.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Because the high elves are nothing but a tool to further the blood elf storyline and they suck precious screentime away from playable Alliance races.
    well clearly the developers don't share that view .. that sounds a bit bitter don't you think? Why is it a problem to have lots of non-playable races, groups or factions, take up screen time but suddenly it's a waste if it's high elves? that sounds like player hate to me.. but maybe that's the desired effect. I do find the elven topic discussions more lively and more contentious than most others though - it's probably a good thing for the franchise.

    I can't believe anyone would get rid of high elves when they generate far more interest than most other groups, - great hate is also interest - you're supposed to hate the Legion and any group that doesn't like your fave. I off course try not to be partisan, they are what they are afterall.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    If you are wondering wether all of the pure High Elves that weren't affected by fel magic would ever join the Horde, then that is literally impossible. The majority of the pure High Elves have a shared history with the Alliance in regards of the Troll Wars, the First and Second War, the Outland expedition and due to personal character-based affiliation aswell.
    This is what I don't get, if the High elves who became blood elves could join the horde, then high elves could join the blood elves too if not necessarily the horde. I'm not talking about necessarily being playable - pls forgive the confusion. Why can't we have high elves as high elves, side by side with blood elves, refusing to be blood elves, distinct philosophically, and ideologically even thematically (blue instead of red) if identical physically ... they don't all have to be fighting with each other.

    If I love my brother loads, I could despise his friends but still care enough to reach out to him, be with him in our home, and win him over to the good ways, temper his aggression and restore his nobility. He doesn't necessarily have to hate me either, he can find me idealistic, even annoying and feel it's his duty to prove to me his way is better, there can be that banter.

    Sure not everyone will be like that, you can have some serious haters that can't stand each other in both groups, this is what the Silver Covenant and the Sunreavers can be about, the extreme end, with the SC refusing to intermingle with the blood elves and the SRs the high elves. - they can be faction loyalists while most of the race is more focused on itself than its affliation.

    To me this is a lot more interesting. and I'm not prejudiced by hate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by saintminya View Post
    There already are Horde-allied High Elves, and I don't mean Blood Elves. Lor'themar allows high elves to access the Sunwell, and due the blood elves attempting to mend the gap between HE and BE, high elves not-aligned with the Silver Covenant have relocated to Silvermoon. Outside the capital, Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher of the Reliquary has pro-actively been mending relations, trying the find a fool-proof cure for mana-addiction to fully re-united the elves.
    ah you see.. evidence.

    It's exactly the sort of thing that can be expanded, seeing a situation where high elf and blood elf communities exist, separate but side by side, with integration slowly happening over time. They can even actively achieve an end to all elf on elf hostilities, even though i'm sure the Silver Covenant and Sun Reavers will declare all bets off on the field of Alliance v Horde battles. - but they could be the group up for a fight, whereas most actually work together.

    we can see a Thalassian identity build up again, and now exist in 2 distinct camps whereas previously they were one. That's possible I think.

    - - - Updated - - -

    and much more interesting too.

  18. #38
    Dreadlord saintminya's Avatar
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    Very possible, and with the Silver Covenant seemingly disbanded (?) I think the likelihood of a greater high elf migration to Silvermoon is becoming increasingly more likely. Ideally with high elf NPCS actually present. Even Vereesa, despite having lead the unjust war against the Sunreavers, still considers Quel'thalas/Silvermoon her home, and Lor'themar begrudingly having allowed members of the SC to the Sunwell, perhaps without Jaina barking orders the two could ease their mutual distrust.

  19. #39
    Banned MechaCThun's Avatar
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    Yay for more high elf threads.

    Game mechanics-wise, no they could not exist within the Horde. We already have blood elves which are in fact high elves. You could argue as a sub-race option for blood elves, but there is NO cosmectic difference other than what... blue eyes?

    Lore-wise, ehhhh perhaps. If the story was you had a group of high elves that wanted to be re-accepted by their people and join the Horde, and another group who don't like the Horde and feel betrayed by a faction of their own joining the Horde. But even then, how would that play out for THE PLAYERS. To have blood elf models with blue eyes running around the Alliance?

    I think high elves being in the Horde could only be reflected from a story stand point. Not as a playable race for either faction.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    well clearly the developers don't share that view .. that sounds a bit bitter don't you think? Why is it a problem to have lots of non-playable races, groups or factions, take up screen time but suddenly it's a waste if it's high elves? that sounds like player hate to me.. but maybe that's the desired effect. I do find the elven topic discussions more lively and more contentious than most others though - it's probably a good thing for the franchise.

    I can't believe anyone would get rid of high elves when they generate far more interest than most other groups, - great hate is also interest - you're supposed to hate the Legion and any group that doesn't like your fave. I off course try not to be partisan, they are what they are afterall.
    Whenever Blood elves are majorly involved, so are the high elves, the very reason the silver covenant faction exists is because of the blood elves were being asked to return to Dalaran by the Kirin tor. But in legion the silver covenant has no longer any presence in the city come legion and are replaced by worgen. Now they tag along the farstriders in the hunter hall.

    The high elves have no storyline of their own, nor are their reasons interesting, they aren't fleshed out as a race in any way shape or form, they are merely there to meddle with their kin. That spotlight could have been covered by any other Alliance race, but blizz chooses the non playable one, because of its ties to the main part of the race on the other side and to develop them further.

    Blizz take on the matter is quite clear, what defines high elves is that they didn't drain mana from vermin other than that, this official statement of blizz comes to mind.

    Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret.

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