[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Morally Grey Storm]

Feels like , with every new build , the chance of ret being a bench warmer goes up.

If talented in a specific way, chance of it is increased by 65%

[Qoma]

Btw I still don't got the point about Sword of Light. Why I need to have a passive of 5% more dmg with my 2-handed weapon? It's not better to just buff ret's dmg 5% across the board and scrap that stupid passive?

It's to ensure that Rets use 2H weapons, instead of sword and board. Other classes have a similar passive.

[Deleted]

If talented in a specific way, chance of it is increased by 65%

It fits the spec fantasy , I'm sure ^^

[Teleros]

Btw I still don't got the point about Sword of Light. Why I need to have a passive of 5% more dmg with my 2-handed weapon? It's not better to just buff ret's dmg 5% across the board and scrap that stupid passive?

I think it's there for tuning as much as anything else.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's mostly a tuning knob. It might get buffed later on(With warriors two hander buff to) but who knows. Love to see stats on if we were somehow being too OP.

[Sungamnori]

I'm firmly in the EqualityWrath is terrible camp... but for a limited scope of Arena usage, what do people think of its synergy with the Divine Intervention talent? Letting yourself get 'killed', basically, knowing that you'll auto bubble and then you can pop holy-wrath to it's fullest effect before tossing yourself a couple heals?

In any case, please Blizzard.. either ditch this or move it to the damn PvP tree. No one wants it for the PvE component.

[Deleted]

I'm firmly in the EqualityWrath is terrible camp... but for a limited scope of Arena usage, what do people think of its synergy with the Divine Intervention talent? Letting yourself get 'killed', basically, knowing that you'll auto bubble and then you can pop holy-wrath to it's fullest effect before tossing yourself a couple heals?

In any case, please Blizzard.. either ditch this or move it to the damn PvP tree. No one wants it for the PvE component.

If the opponent is smart they will just snare and kite you. Without derpony you will be going at a whopping 100% speed. I guess you can put hopes on hand of hindrance to catch up to one target. But it will probably get dispelled amd you kited to your death. Ret design! Top stuff!


In other news, i keep testing stuff out. The "new", aka working fires is pretty good. With Zeal getting its damage nerfed i wonder how much haste, if at any point it will surpass Fires. I have been finding some sucess with Divine hammer aswell. The longer cooldown is actually beneficial to go with fires and it does add quite a bit of cleave/AoE besides looking just cooler than the blade spells. Single target still seems strong. It has been working well on dungeons.

I just hate the new super dark nameplates. Gonna have to get an addon for that cause Blizz didn't add any customization options for it.

[ruiizu]

I'm firmly in the EqualityWrath is terrible camp... but for a limited scope of Arena usage, what do people think of its synergy with the Divine Intervention talent? Letting yourself get 'killed', basically, knowing that you'll auto bubble and then you can pop holy-wrath to it's fullest effect before tossing yourself a couple heals?

In any case, please Blizzard.. either ditch this or move it to the damn PvP tree. No one wants it for the PvE component.

You can definitely use it to wreck melee cleave teams if they focus you. It's sort of niche in that regard and still kind of encourages bad play, but it can work. If you can get one of their DPS below 50% and you have DI, you can kill one of them for sure. But is it really better than the alternatives? If you fail, you're hosed, so it's really a one trick, one chance skill.

Skilled teams rarely base everything off of "as long as I use this ability, we win." They want to have multiple opportunities to win.

[Biral Sunherald]

So I posted on the Theorycrafting Thread, explaining how we were still waiting on clarification of Justicar's Vengeance and whether it should be healing via damage caused to absorb shields and overkills and my post was deleted.

GG Devs.

[Ulthane]

So 100% sure the following should happen.

-Holy Wrath moved to pvp.
-Hammer of Reckoning moved to PvE as Hammer of Wrath for a 100 talent.
--Only usable on a target with less than 20% hp. Deals holy damage and generates 1 holy power.
--or, replaces Judgment. Gain % mastery based on missing % health of target you used it on.

-Crusade: Probably should become a passive buff that functions similar to old Vengeance and replace Avenging Wrath. Be it secondary stats or raw holy damage.
-Divine Purpose: Finishers should lower AW cd.

-Echo of the Highlord: Animation change and/or have finishers chance on hit to launch a radiant bolt at the target similar to old Righteous Vengeance mechanic.

-Solsacras Seal of Command idea.
-Shield of Vengeance: Lower cd, trait to increase absorb.
-Divine Steed baseline, new talent to increase functionality

-Greater Blessings: Might needs a rework and others need to be better tuned. Rework functionality.

Those honestly are probably the most important things, after Final Boss released his second pass on ret and comparing my experience, dicussion here and what he mentioned i have to say this above would fix a ton of inherent problems.

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So I posted on the Theorycrafting Thread, explaining how we were still waiting on clarification of Justicar's Vengeance and whether it should be healing via damage caused to absorb shields and overkills and my post was deleted.

GG Devs.

Illuminati confirmed.

[Animefreak3K]

-Holy Wrath moved to pvp.

Just...no. Moving that Stepchild of a Talent won't solve the problem, that no Ret wants this Talent. Remove it or redesign it.

-Hammer of Reckoning moved to PvE as Hammer of Wrath for a 100 talent.

In it's current state, that talent is kinda useless.

[Merrena]

Just...no. Moving that Stepchild of a Talent won't solve the problem, that no Ret wants this Talent. Remove it or redesign it.



In it's current state, that talent is kinda useless.

It really just needs to be taken out at this point. I don't know why they are trying to force it on us, unless they just keep trying to make it good so they don't have to design something else before Legion releases.

It's a blankspot in the talent tree, so we only have 2 choices for level 100, and mainly realistically only 1 because Crusade isn't that good.

[Tyze]

Guys, what happend to Tyreal's (?) Might? That Heroic Leap thingy that Paladins were suppose to get?

[Ulthane]

Just...no. Moving that Stepchild of a Talent won't solve the problem, that no Ret wants this Talent. Remove it or redesign it.



In it's current state, that talent is kinda useless.

Few things

-If holy wrath is to be removed then put Hammer of Wrath in its place or bring back an improved version of the old Holy Wrath channel at 30 seconds. If they want to keep this talent it has no place in pve.

-If you read it carefully i was saying that Hammer of Wrath would either be an execute or a replacement to Judgment. Never said it should keep its current design.

-If old Holy Wrath comes back they should have it interact with Judgment.
--30 second cd, generates 5 holy power over x seconds. Each bolt inflicts judgment on the target.

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Guys, what happend to Tyreal's (?) Might? That Heroic Leap thingy that Paladins were suppose to get?

Turaylons Might, and they removed it for various dumb reasons.

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It really just needs to be taken out at this point. I don't know why they are trying to force it on us, unless they just keep trying to make it good so they don't have to design something else before Legion releases.

It's a blankspot in the talent tree, so we only have 2 choices for level 100, and mainly realistically only 1 because Crusade isn't that good.

This x.....x

Either a, remove it
Or
B: swap with hammer of reckoning and call it Hammer of Wrath

[Sungamnori]

Guys, what happend to Tyreal's (?) Might? That Heroic Leap thingy that Paladins were suppose to get?

They decided that mobility is not in our class fantasy. We're to be kited and left behind in groups.

Edit: I'm just waiting for this to all go live, and to be in a dungeon, and get kicked because I can't keep up with the group and they have to wait for me on every big pull.

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So I posted on the Theorycrafting Thread, explaining how we were still waiting on clarification of Justicar's Vengeance and whether it should be healing via damage caused to absorb shields and overkills and my post was deleted.

GG Devs.

Try rewording it as an actual theory craft question instead of a game mechanic design question.

Don't ask them what the intended purpose is, tell them you're theorycrafting solo hp regen and need to know what the hp regen is when attacking a shielded mob.

[Teleros]

So I posted on the Theorycrafting Thread, explaining how we were still waiting on clarification of Justicar's Vengeance and whether it should be healing via damage caused to absorb shields and overkills and my post was deleted.

GG Devs.

Technically your question was nothing to do with theorycrafting though. If you look at Wowhead, the spell data makes it quite clear that it's just a basic leech / drain life ability, so in terms of its coding, it's working as intended.

Whether this is the right coding to use is another matter though, but again, this isn't a theorycrafting question.

= + =

-Hammer of Reckoning moved to PvE as Hammer of Wrath for a 100 talent.
--Only usable on a target with less than 20% hp. Deals holy damage and generates 1 holy power.
--or, replaces Judgment. Gain % mastery based on missing % health of target you used it on.

It really doesn't seem to be an interesting spell though. 240% SP * 1.15 (at best, with stacking buff) = 276% SP. Every 1 minute. That's a heck of a lot less than Judgement (200% * 1.45 for trait * 1.X for mastery). And don't forget it might not get the full +15% damage buff, if your GBoM targets don't get hurt regularly enough.

For PvP, why you'd ever pick HoR over Lawbringer is beyond me. Just in terms of pure damage, 5% of 2M health = 100,000 damage, or over 400% SP (I'm assuming under 25k SP, based on the PvP stat template)... and that's on top of the regular damage of Judgement (assuming +40% from mastery, that's 406% SP).

So under the circumstances, just copy/pasting it over to the PvE tree in place of Equality / Holy Wrath is pointless.

I fully agree that Holy Wrath doesn't belong where it is, but like Animefreak3K says, it really needs to be taken out back and shot, then buried in an unmarked grave. Although... if you have to move it instead of getting rid of it outright, then dumping it in the PvP talent tree at least means only a minority of Rets have to ignore it, rather than 100% of them :P .

[Ulthane]

Technically your question was nothing to do with theorycrafting though. If you look at Wowhead, the spell data makes it quite clear that it's just a basic leech / drain life ability, so in terms of its coding, it's working as intended.

Whether this is the right coding to use is another matter though, but again, this isn't a theorycrafting question.

= + =


It really doesn't seem to be an interesting spell though. 240% SP * 1.15 (at best, with stacking buff) = 276% SP. Every 1 minute. That's a heck of a lot less than Judgement (200% * 1.45 for trait * 1.X for mastery). And don't forget it might not get the full +15% damage buff, if your GBoM targets don't get hurt regularly enough.

For PvP, why you'd ever pick HoR over Lawbringer is beyond me. Just in terms of pure damage, 5% of 2M health = 100,000 damage, or over 400% SP (I'm assuming under 25k SP, based on the PvP stat template)... and that's on top of the regular damage of Judgement (assuming +40% from mastery, that's 406% SP).

So under the circumstances, just copy/pasting it over to the PvE tree in place of Equality / Holy Wrath is pointless.

I fully agree that Holy Wrath doesn't belong where it is, but like Animefreak3K says, it really needs to be taken out back and shot, then buried in an unmarked grave. Although... if you have to move it instead of getting rid of it outright, then dumping it in the PvP talent tree at least means only a minority of Rets have to ignore it, rather than 100% of them :P .

I guess i was mis understood, it would probably follow HoW damage or if it replaced Judgment it would be Judgement with extra umph.

[ruiizu]

If they want us to use Holy Wrath so badly, they should make it baseline. Then you can never escape the cancer.

Interestingly enough I just did the Silver Hand Artifact quest as Ret and uh...at the end it's like "heal your ass off." So I just died and waited for the quest to complete, released...tadah, Silver Hand. So good.

[Ulthane]

If they want us to use Holy Wrath so badly, they should make it baseline. Then you can never escape the cancer.

Interestingly enough I just did the Silver Hand Artifact quest as Ret and uh...at the end it's like "heal your ass off." So I just died and waited for the quest to complete, released...tadah, Silver Hand. So good.

HAH but did you use Holy wrath

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Also yes, it should be taken out to the back

[Lumineus]

It's to ensure that Rets use 2H weapons, instead of sword and board. Other classes have a similar passive.

It's to provide tuning if (when...) they fuck up class balance so they don't have to make a lot of targeted adjustments mid-expansion. Most classes have a passive that isn't tied to their weapon type, it's just that ours happens to be recycled from the old talent trees, where before Cataclysm you could make hybrid builds, and they didn't want you benefiting from the Prot and Ret passives at the same time.