[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Might just be me but I feel like fel barrage is proccing more.

Any idea what abilities it's getting charges from?

[Sangomah]

Any damage ability so assume any active

[Donovan4893]

In the first 5 mins of a fight nemisis will have an 80% uptime due to reborn. and a 100% uptime for the first 3 mins. something non of the others can match and quite clearly blows them out of the water in terms of dps increase. its also much easier to do. which is why its the top single target dps talent atm.

what am I missing? cast nemesis it last 1 min then you reset its CD with meta to put it on again for another minute but it has a 2min CD where does the third minute of nemesis come from?

[Deleted]

what am I missing? cast nemesis it last 1 min then you reset its CD with meta to put it on again for another minute but it has a 2min CD where does the third minute of nemesis come from?

Sea turtles mate...

[Christhammer]

Restart didnt fix it. Still no damage from Fel Rush. Hope they can fix this soon (along with momentum ofc).

[Dimzum]

In the first 5 mins of a fight nemisis will have an 80% uptime due to reborn. and a 100% uptime for the first 3 mins. something non of the others can match and quite clearly blows them out of the water in terms of dps increase. its also much easier to do. which is why its the top single target dps talent atm.

Math might be a little off.

0-1min Nemesis - Meta - Nemesis Reset
1-2min Nemesis
2-3min No Nemesis
3-4min Nemesis
4+min Meta reset Nemesis
5+min Nemesis

In the first 3 minutes you actually only have 66% uptime at best. After 3 minutes it jumps back up with Nemesis and Meta coming off CD.

So only fights that are shorter than 2 minutes will you have 100% uptime. Fights in the 2-3 minute range will actually fair worse the longer it goes.

As a single target dps increase, it is the best. Is it the best in practice as far as raid encounters? That's still being determined.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Any damage ability so assume any active

Should've clarified: last time anyone checked they were dating they were only getting charges off of Chaos Strikes, hence my curiosity for what they may have observed it paint proccing off of.

[nethara]

Should've clarified: last time anyone checked they were dating they were only getting charges off of Chaos Strikes, hence my curiosity for what they may have observed it paint proccing off of.

I'm not in the beta so take this with a grain of salt, but it would be great if it procced off of Eye Beam and other AOE abilities...could make talents like Blind Fury more attractive.

[ChakanDH]

I'd say, looking at logs and testing Beta, that 300k DPS would be a better estimate for a "end of heroic dungs start of Heroic raids" gearing state. Logs for M tries were topping around 340-350k DPS, disregarding outliers that supposedly will be tonned down.

With that in mind, 750k Fel Eruptions (assuming your numbers) would equate to 750/35= 21,4k DPS added, what represents 7,1% increase overall DPS. (Don't trust my numbers without a triple check ^_^)

For a Momentum uptime of 50%, we'd get a normalization of 10% increase if we could always use the full 4sec of the buff dpsing. From my experience tracking the buff on Beta, I'd say we waste 1sec every 4 sec buff due to latency, travel time back to the boss and shenanigans, what means 75% efficiency and thus 7,5% overall DPS increase.

Nemesis lasts for 60sec with a 120sec CD, meaning 50% efficiency aka 7,5% increase in overall DPS, counting only the mob debuff part.

That would put all the talents on the tier rather close in terms of effective gain, specially considering with better performance you can increase the gain from Momentum.

Did I fluke terribly at some point or do we actually have a surprisingly close balance in the tier, possibly allowing other builds with very similar output?

300k at pre raid levels? Seems high, I think Van was saying they were getting 200k or so at 840?

Either way, it does look like that at the very least eruption will be viable.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Should've clarified: last time anyone checked they were dating they were only getting charges off of Chaos Strikes, hence my curiosity for what they may have observed it paint proccing off of.

I've done some testing and have gotten charges from Demon Reborn (full charges), Demon's Bite, Chaos Strike, Fel Blade, Fury of the Illidari, Fel Rush, and Throw Glaive.

I maybe just didn't try long enough, but I didn't get any charges from Eye Beam, Fel Eruption, Vengeful Retreat, Blade Dance, or Demon Blades.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I've done some testing and have gotten charges from Demon Reborn (full charges), Demon's Bite, Chaos Strike, Fel Blade, Fury of the Illidari, Fel Rush, and Throw Glaive.

I maybe just didn't try long enough, but I didn't get any charges from Eye Beam, Fel Eruption, Vengeful Retreat, Blade Dance, or Demon Blades.

Exactly the reply i was hoping for, thank you good sir Especially the Demon Reborn one, was hoping it'd work like that but wasn't expecting it to.

[Vanyali]

300k at pre raid levels? Seems high, I think Van was saying they were getting 200k or so at 840?

Either way, it does look like that at the very least eruption will be viable.

Correctly, I'm only getting 500k on a crit and I'm @ 842

53% Crit,
5% Haste,
17% Mastery,
2% Vers

[ChakanDH]

Correctly, I'm only getting 500k on a crit and I'm @ 842

53% Crit,
5% Haste,
17% Mastery,
2% Vers

Ha, nah I mean your dps, not the base damage of Fel Eruption Try it out now that the double damage on bosses has been fixed, you should be critting for well over 1 million.

[Vanyali]

Ha, nah I mean your dps, not the base damage of Fel Eruption Try it out now that the double damage on bosses has been fixed, you should be critting for well over 1 million.

Oh.

Yes, on non-stun mobs it crits high, yes.

Misread that post entirely :B 300k is probably possible on AoE fights, but not likely to sustain until raid gear, depending on build; don't count fights as being a good indicator unless they're over 3 minutes.

[TheLimonTree]

I've done some testing and have gotten charges from Demon Reborn (full charges), Demon's Bite, Chaos Strike, Fel Blade, Fury of the Illidari, Fel Rush, and Throw Glaive.

I maybe just didn't try long enough, but I didn't get any charges from Eye Beam, Fel Eruption, Vengeful Retreat, Blade Dance, or Demon Blades.

Good list, if it doesn't proc off DBlades that's unfortunate as I enjoy the pace of that talent.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Good list, if it doesn't proc off DBlades that's unfortunate as I enjoy the pace of that talent.

Indeed. Not that i was planning on taking Demon Blades, but that still would've been nifty. I'd actually chalk that up to a bug since it works for Demon's Bite and not Demon Blades.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not in the beta so take this with a grain of salt, but it would be great if it procced off of Eye Beam and other AOE abilities...could make talents like Blind Fury more attractive.

This thought crossed my mind, especially since Fel Barrage is an AoE on it's own it would make sense for it to proc off of AoE (although Celestalon did say in their initial theorycraft post on the ability that might make it a bit OP).

[Vanyali]

it doesn't proc off EB because EB is technically a spell, not an attack. It should be proc'ing off BD though.

Also, I built a build I'm calling cancer build for 2-target fights. It has zero survivability outside of meta, but does great on cleave.

Chaos Cleave - Demonic Appetite - Bloodlet - Soul Rending - Fel Eruption - MoTG - Fel Barrage


Fel Barrage procs are still low as shit so it gets rough, but I tried it in Neth's lair and was keeping up with a fury warr.. no clue on his gear, though. Was pulling decent numbers (lol 1min fights), so I assume not awful gear.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Indeed. Not that i was planning on taking Demon Blades, but that still would've been nifty. I'd actually chalk that up to a bug since it works for Demon's Bite and not Demon Blades.

- - - Updated - - -



This thought crossed my mind, especially since Fel Barrage is an AoE on it's own it would make sense for it to proc off of AoE (although Celestalon did say in their initial theorycraft post on the ability that might make it a bit OP).

Yeah I specifically reported Demon Blades not procing it as a bug since I did get it to proc off Demon's bite and mentioned the other abilities. I'll try again in the next build if someone else hasn't by the time I get online.

[TheLimonTree]

Based on the way Dblades works, I like running fel mastery and fel blade with it, rotating between using those and dblade for fury gen. While using FR and FB you'll get a few stacks of dblade saved up, and while those recharge you'll get really fast fury gain from the saved up stacks. Obviously momentum works really well with this as well.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

it doesn't proc off EB because EB is technically a spell, not an attack. It should be proc'ing off BD though.

Also, I built a build I'm calling cancer build for 2-target fights. It has zero survivability outside of meta, but does great on cleave.

Chaos Cleave - Demonic Appetite - Bloodlet - Soul Rending - Fel Eruption - MoTG - Fel Barrage


Fel Barrage procs are still low as shit so it gets rough, but I tried it in Neth's lair and was keeping up with a fury warr.. no clue on his gear, though. Was pulling decent numbers (lol 1min fights), so I assume not awful gear.

Your "Cancer Build" has some striking similarities to my current casual build >.>

fite me IRL m8.

Although, now that i know Demon Reborn refunds all charges of Fel Barrage, it'll be between that and Unleashed Power most of the time.