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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    I think the problem isn't that Pharah doesn't have a counter but rather at low level play Pharah is a complete menance. The lower your MMR, the stronger Pharah becomes.

    Soldier, Widowmaker and Hanzo all destroy Pharah but rely HEAVILY on accuracy. On top of that, Pharah, Reaper, Roadhog and Junkrat are all trying to fill the void left by the McCree nerf. As such, We're seeing A LOT of Pharah since she's such a safe tank killer. At lower level play, Widow/Soldier/Hanzo just can't reliably hit Pharah, and it makes it seem like she has no counter.

    It sucks, but Blizzard needs to decide now where they're balancing their game around. Top, mid or bottom level play.
    If someone can't hit a pharah reliably then they can't hit anything reliably and it is a personal targeting skill issue, which has no value in a discussion about balance. Just because someone is just starting out in this game doesn't mean that they can't target properly as a lot of people have played other fps games before. It isn't like pharah is hard to hit like Tracer.

  2. #22
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    I mean, you feel the need to say you're Diamond 2.. Whatever that means. I assume it's pretty high.

    You should know that some heroes are better at dealing with some heroes than others. Pharah is easy to kill for a Widow/Soldier/Anyone else with a high precision hit-scan weapon

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    I was getting smoked the other night on Pharah by this incredible Mei. Multiple head shots while I was in the air moving around. She was amazing. I felt bad after the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  4. #24
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WskyDK View Post
    I was getting smoked the other night on Pharah by this incredible Mei. Multiple head shots while I was in the air moving around. She was amazing. I felt bad after the game.
    You got rekt by a MEI as Pharah?.. Damn. She's good

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehman View Post
    You got rekt by a MEI as Pharah?.. Damn. She's good
    I wish I would have been able to save her potg. she peeked a corner and led me perfectly as I moved at an angle towards her. Perfectly placed headshot.
    I wish that was the only time she got me too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WskyDK View Post
    I wish I would have been able to save her potg. she peeked a corner and led me perfectly as I moved at an angle towards her. Perfectly placed headshot.
    I wish that was the only time she got me too.
    I almost feel bad for you.. Almost

  7. #27
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    So Pharah is *strong* (keyword), but not unbalanced. A lot of people are tossing about things, insulting the OP ( I mean I get why), but really the discussion point here is that Pharah is a little too strong, even against her 'counters'. And that's another thing, people list every hero under the sun as her 'counter'.

    Just because a great player can use X hero to kill Y hero, doesn't make it a counter. Widowmaker is the only hard counter to Pharah, period. That's problematic. Sure Soldier is good at killing her, maybe the second closest counter, but Roadhog? You're a bad Pharah if you're low enough to get hooked. Most of the Pharahs I see never even touch the ground, utilizing combinations of rockets and rocket jump with hover to never land.

    Do I think she needs a 'nerf'? Man Idk. The week they nerfed Mcree and Widow, I watched a Segaull stream where he went ham with Pharah saying it was easier now that there are less widows. Basically referencing it was the only good counter to her. It has stayed true that there are less widows overall, but how would you even attempt to balance Pharah more? I feel reducing her damage wouldn't even solve the seeming problem and making her less airborne basically breaks her.

    I don't think the OP's problem is the real problem, but there is a discussion around Pharah being the only hero so high in the sky for long periods of time with the ability to do more damage with less actual accuracy than others. It's counter intuitive, but maybe her rockets could do less damage to the enemy and more damage to herself at close range. Making her stay at max range for max damage would firmly cement her as the turret/healer assassin and keep her away from all the other people she can wreck at will.

    But w/r/t the op, yeah you're team needs to kill her and try to protect you. I just switch to a damage dealer if my team just runs in opposite direction away from me, while the enemy sends all 6 people at my face and I die in a second.
    BAD WOLF

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    So Pharah is *strong* (keyword), but not unbalanced. A lot of people are tossing about things, insulting the OP ( I mean I get why), but really the discussion point here is that Pharah is a little too strong, even against her 'counters'. And that's another thing, people list every hero under the sun as her 'counter'.

    Just because a great player can use X hero to kill Y hero, doesn't make it a counter. Widowmaker is the only hard counter to Pharah, period. That's problematic. Sure Soldier is good at killing her, maybe the second closest counter, but Roadhog? You're a bad Pharah if you're low enough to get hooked. Most of the Pharahs I see never even touch the ground, utilizing combinations of rockets and rocket jump with hover to never land.

    Do I think she needs a 'nerf'? Man Idk. The week they nerfed Mcree and Widow, I watched a Segaull stream where he went ham with Pharah saying it was easier now that there are less widows. Basically referencing it was the only good counter to her. It has stayed true that there are less widows overall, but how would you even attempt to balance Pharah more? I feel reducing her damage wouldn't even solve the seeming problem and making her less airborne basically breaks her.

    I don't think the OP's problem is the real problem, but there is a discussion around Pharah being the only hero so high in the sky for long periods of time with the ability to do more damage with less actual accuracy than others. It's counter intuitive, but maybe her rockets could do less damage to the enemy and more damage to herself at close range. Making her stay at max range for max damage would firmly cement her as the turret/healer assassin and keep her away from all the other people she can wreck at will.

    But w/r/t the op, yeah you're team needs to kill her and try to protect you. I just switch to a damage dealer if my team just runs in opposite direction away from me, while the enemy sends all 6 people at my face and I die in a second.
    On my phone so I won't bother paring your post down, but Soldier is absolutely a hard counter to Pharah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
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  9. #29
    Wow.... All that QQ from a Pharah.... The wonders of the interwebz

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Seems like a "every hero that kills me is OP" thread, and I can't really take it seriously.

    Pharah is fairly balanced, needs a buff more then a nerf. She has great damage but is really easy to kill, even for non Widowmakers.
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  11. #31
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Pharah is my most played character. She is not over powered. Your problem is in thinking Mercy should be able to kill Pharah. She usually can't. Pharah has plenty of counters and as Mercy you need to depend on your team to deal with her. If you can, seek cover. Get under something, Pharah's advantage is in the air. Stay with your team and communicate with them, get one of her counters to take her out. Ask the S76. The WM or the Hanzo. Roadhog, if she gets close enough (though I never let RH get close to me if I can.). If a Reaper gets behind her while her jump jets are on CD, he can one shot her in the back of the head.

    Please before demanding a nerf, play Pharah for a while and learn her strengths and weaknesses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Eh, "hard counters" are kinda hard to really pin down in the first place.

    Calling Widowmaker a "hard counter" to Pharah, for example, is a bit problematic. Pharah can - in turn - serve as a really annoying harasser for Widowmaker without actually putting herself in too much danger.

    If anything, I'd actually say that 76 is more of a reliable way to handle her, it'll at least keep her grounded much of the time at little risk to the 76.
    This is true, I've killed as many WMs as I've been killed by them. But if Pharah is focusing down an enemy Mercy, she's a prime target for the WM.
    Last edited by Adam Jensen; 2016-06-29 at 08:06 PM. Reason: autocorrect changed nerf to nerd on me lol
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  12. #32
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Eh, "hard counters" are kinda hard to really pin down in the first place.

    Calling Widowmaker a "hard counter" to Pharah, for example, is a bit problematic. Pharah can - in turn - serve as a really annoying harasser for Widowmaker without actually putting herself in too much danger.

    If anything, I'd actually say that 76 is more of a reliable way to handle her, it'll at least keep her grounded much of the time at little risk to the 76.
    But here's why I said people like to throw things around, and I'm not picking on you (though maybe on WSKY)...but he has an incredible risk b/c he needs to be visible, which means he is just as susceptible to her return fire. Widow, by contrast, is farther away and likely has the element of surprise. She can also reach the elevation that Pharah can via her grapple.

    From an objective viewpoint thinking about game design, she's the only hero capable of hard countering Pharah. She can attain the elevation, keep distance, and has an element of surprise, while also needing less shots fired to eliminate. Like I said, Soldier is good at it...but I'm talking about design.

    And if we thinkk about 'the design' instead of 'Pharah' then we can see where this design is unique and without many hard counters. That's a little problematic.

    She can stay off the ground, has escape mechanisms, has knockback, has high damage aoe which travels very far, and almost no negatives to any of those abilities.

    Compare this to someone like Junkrat. Sure, he has a great set. He has a lot of utility with the mine, both offensively and defensively, but the trade off is that his primary weapon is hard to aim properly, is easy to avoid, and the aoe damage is minimal compared to a rocket. He is easily countered by any flanker, lots of ground classes, Pharah herself, and just about everyone. As far as 'hard' counters? All flankers and snipers as his primary mode of operation is to hide in the back and be the rattiest rat ever.

    Now this isn't to say his design is underpowered at all...I'd say he's a great character to be honest. But look at the design space. Pharah stands apart from the pack and that's not really good for the game in the long run I don't think.

    Maybe just having more aerial classes will help, but for now Widow is her only hard counter in open space.

    Edit: Forgot to say that her Ult leaves her wide open and if not used properly is worthless which I think was intended to try and balance her otherwise strong design.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2016-06-29 at 07:39 PM.
    BAD WOLF

  13. #33
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsugunai View Post
    I am a Diamond II LoL player on average, maining Soraka (that game's healer)
    no one cares about what you main and what rank you are in lol, its absolutely not relevant here and i have absolutely no idea why you brought that up.

    now OT:
    as a mercy you are way more reliant on your team than the other supports, if you die to pharah then its because no one is playing bodyguard for you.
    as others have said, a widow and a good hanzo can take her easily out of the sky, same with soldier.
    and get better team mates, who are not stupid enough to leave a mercy without protection.
    Last edited by Raetary; 2016-06-29 at 09:06 PM.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Huntaer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsugunai View Post
    Actually it is relevant because the reason I do as good in this game as I am now is my awareness and positioning is all taken from what I played with Raka. It's just I feel that's not enough when it specifically comes to Pharah. I mean, hell, I can even elude Reapers with ease often.
    Well if you cant evade Pharah your positioning isn't very good is it. It's easy to hide somewhere and finish her off 1 on 1 when she can't fly off.
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  15. #35
    If you were anywhere near as good as you think you'd switch to zenyata when you're being stalked by a phara. Then you can heal and kill her 1v1 with ease. One trick ponies in overwatch just aren't good at the game.
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  16. #36
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntaer View Post
    Well if you cant evade Pharah your positioning isn't very good is it. It's easy to hide somewhere and finish her off 1 on 1 when she can't fly off.
    Any room with a low roof is the bane of Pharah's existence. Perfect hiding spot for Mercy.
    Putin khuliyo

  17. #37
    Banned monkmastaeq's Avatar
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    Trying hitting a lucio as a pharah, most mercy players just stand there and hold heal down making them easy targets. Fly around with mercy abuse the LOS bugs you can with her heals.

    Op sounds like he's just sitting there i bet he gets sniped a ton too

  18. #38
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    I can handle Pharas pretty darn well as Soldier, if you ignore Phara however, she'll win the game for you... very easily. It's amazing how teams tend to ignore her because she is not in their direct line of sight and hovering above them.
    Her biggest weakness is that she's exposed pretty much the whole time. She's a strong pick for sure and if I'd nerf something about her, it would be her pushback. Lucio's looks rather underwhelming compared to hers.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal123 View Post
    no one cares about what you main and what rank you are in lol, its absolutely not relevant here and i have absolutely no idea why you brought that up.

    now OT:
    as a mercy you are way more reliant on your team than the other supports, if you die to pharah then its because no one is playing bodyguard for you.
    as others have said, a widow and a good hanzo can take her easily out of the sky, same with soldier.
    and get better team mates, who are not stupid enough to leave a mercy without protection.
    He say's it at the start of most of the topics he makes.

  20. #40
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Pharah is good, really good, but she can't fly forever and there are plenty of characters who can bring her down. I've been in groups as Reinhardt without anyone who could really counter her (Junkrats, Tracers, Genjis, Torbjorns) and in that situation she can almost solo your entire team. But, put S76, WM, Hanzo, or Bastion in there and it totally changes the game.

    The biggest issue you'll have really is people just not looking out for her flanking you, usually overhead around tall features; some of the best PotGs I've seen and done have been doing this and popping that ultimate. Again though, it's entirely avoidable and preventable if the right people are paying attention. It's one of those things I love doing, so won't begrudge someone doing it to me.

    As Mercy you kind of have to accept people are going to single you out. You have arguably the single most powerful ultimate in the game. It can entirely negate and reverse even the best co-ordinated assault.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2016-06-29 at 10:44 PM.

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