Crafting useless if you raid normal or hc?

[Multibocks]

Boohoo I want to get the best gear by picking flowers and pressing a mining node.
Every time I start picking flowers the monsters around them kill me so I'm getting really pissed off.
Please give me the best gear possible so I can kill monsters that guard the flowers please Blizz.

So edgy you might cut yourself.

[Hexxidecimal]

I too remember Elites being tough to kill. Problem is, most players want more streamlined content. If you're looking for a challenge, there's Mythic content galore. But when I'm leveling 100-110, the last thing I want is some mob that takes up 20 minutes of my life

But that is the point that he is making. It used to be a process. Needing to find people to help, interacting with other people, forming some sort of relationship helped to create a community. Helped you to get to know other players. Leveling was a large portion of the adventure in the days of vanilla. In vanilla I remember seeing a tauren druid randomly in the same zone as I during the leveling process. We would help each other and group occasionally when we needed to kill the same mobs. We saw each others progression all the way through end game and often would help by asking our guildies to fill out each others raids. We have since became real life friends after playing WoW together for years. I have made a number of real life friends in WoW and this persisted all the way through Wrath. It stopped in Cata.

Now it's all about speed. Other people are simply "in the way". Hence you have mechanics like Multi tagging where now other players won't just be in the way anymore. It's not that multi tagging is bad, just that it's existence is a sign of what the game has become. You see tagging in WoW wasn't created that way because the system couldn't do anything else. But since no one (ok really just very few) needs to, or even wants to work with others anymore the system has become archaic. Now it just slows people down. Again multi tagging is not a bad system, just indicative of what WoW has become.

[Sylvaeres]

But that is the point that he is making. It used to be a process. Needing to find people to help, interacting with other people, forming some sort of relationship helped to create a community. Helped you to get to know other players. Leveling was a large portion of the adventure in the days of vanilla. In vanilla I remember seeing a tauren druid randomly in the same zone as I during the leveling process. We would help each other and group occasionally when we needed to kill the same mobs. We saw each others progression all the way through end game and often would help by asking our guildies to fill out each others raids. We have since became real life friends after playing WoW together for years. I have made a number of real life friends in WoW and this persisted all the way through Wrath. It stopped in Cata.

Now it's all about speed. Other people are simply "in the way". Hence you have mechanics like Multi tagging where now other players won't just be in the way anymore. It's not that multi tagging is bad, just that it's existence is a sign of what the game has become. You see tagging in WoW wasn't created that way because the system couldn't do anything else. But since no one (ok really just very few) needs to, or even wants to work with others anymore the system has become archaic. Now it just slows people down. Again, it's not a bad system, just indicative of what WoW has become.

That's actually a pretty cool story. I disagree with one point though, the friendships ending at Cata. I've made the same amount of friends in WoD, with half the playerbase. It's all about how social you are. Alot of people I know are from the pugs that I ran for HFC. Others are old guildies or just random players that i've connected with. I will certainly say that I do miss meeting random people out in the Barrens or other places

[Hexxidecimal]

That's actually a pretty cool story. I disagree with one point though, the friendships ending at Cata. I've made the same amount of friends in WoD, with half the playerbase. It's all about how social you are. Alot of people I know are from the pugs that I ran for HFC. Others are old guildies or just random players that i've connected with. I will certainly say that I do miss meeting random people out in the Barrens or other places

Yeah I won't pretend like it's WoW's fault. A lot of this has to do with how interactive you are willing to be. For some of us though we aren't particularly social. I know I am not. It's not because I am socially awkward or because I am shy. I just generally don't find people that I want to interact with. I am, naturally, an introvert. The old systems that existed in WoW helped to break down those barriers. It encouraged me to interact with people far more than I would have normally. This is of course a double edged sword in it's own right as well. I met far far more people I didn't personally care for. Not that they were bad people, just that our personalities were at odds or that the things outside of WoW we liked, or even how we viewed WoW and how we enjoyed it were very different.

More over, it's less about the friendship that I developed outside of WoW that was discovered in WoW, but more about the sense of community that was formed. That is mostly lost. I have no hard numbers to back this up, only the general consensus from those who played WoW in those days. I may not have been RL friends with BobRoss the Shaman, but I knew who he was. I knew of his exploits in PvP and maybe even gunned for him in battlegrounds because of his name sake. I might chat with Bobross about shaman things, knowing he was good at that class and knew what he was talking about. I may have impressed him and became friends with him and his guild in game. We might group occasionally or I might read about him on the realm forum and discuss his exploits. Obviously Bob Ross the shaman is a name I made up and is not intended to represent any shaman perhaps named BobRoss in anyway /disclaimer.

Point is, the systems (or lack thereof) that existed up through Wrath were designed in a way that promoted you to seek out others and to get to know them and others on your servers. Names became famous (or infamous) on that server.

Wow, really off topic here. Yeah so crafting...uh not good for geared mythic raiders...pretty much like always. No worries, you can still make the stuff and sell it to the rest of us plebs, of which there are far more of.

[Varaben]

I'm a mythic raider so my main character will get great gear but I was really hoping to get good gear for my alts with crafting. This is really a step backwards after making the crafting system itself better again.

Recall that WoD limited you to 3 crafted items, whereas that limit doesn't exist in Legion. Or am I wrong there? I haven't been in beta for a while, but that was my understanding. But I agree, it would be nice if you could farm and farm and get good gear eventually through crafting.

[Deleted]

I see it the other way around. Normal difficulty is practically made obsolete with crafted gear. If you just want to see story there's LFR and if you want progression then Normal is just a waste of time because you'd have to pray to RNGesus for upgrades.

[Hexxidecimal]

I see it the other way around. Normal difficulty is practically made obsolete with crafted gear. If you just want to see story there's LFR and if you want progression then Normal is just a waste of time because you'd have to pray to RNGesus for upgrades.

This is basically how I saw it. I find it weird that anyone wants crafted bear (on the whole) to as good as mythic raiding gear...The fact that it's as good as normal when fully upgraded is pretty darn good.

[Floopa]

Simple, because I want to kill faster no matter what the situation, don't you want to kill faster?

trust me when you're 110 in full 810 heroic gear world content, heroics, order hall campaign and mythic dungeons become a complete and utter joke.

[Sylvaeres]

Yeah I won't pretend like it's WoW's fault. A lot of this has to do with how interactive you are willing to be. For some of us though we aren't particularly social. I know I am not. It's not because I am socially awkward or because I am shy. I just generally don't find people that I want to interact with. I am, naturally, an introvert. The old systems that existed in WoW helped to break down those barriers. It encouraged me to interact with people far more than I would have normally. This is of course a double edged sword in it's own right as well. I met far far more people I didn't personally care for. Not that they were bad people, just that our personalities were at odds or that the things outside of WoW we liked, or even how we viewed WoW and how we enjoyed it were very different.

More over, it's less about the friendship that I developed outside of WoW that was discovered in WoW, but more about the sense of community that was formed. That is mostly lost. I have no hard numbers to back this up, only the general consensus from those who played WoW in those days. I may not have been RL friends with BobRoss the Shaman, but I knew who he was. I knew of his exploits in PvP and maybe even gunned for him in battlegrounds because of his name sake. I might chat with Bobross about shaman things, knowing he was good at that class and knew what he was talking about. I may have impressed him and became friends with him and his guild in game. We might group occasionally or I might read about him on the realm forum and discuss his exploits. Obviously Bob Ross the shaman is a name I made up and is not intended to represent any shaman perhaps named BobRoss in anyway /disclaimer.

Point is, the systems (or lack thereof) that existed up through Wrath were designed in a way that promoted you to seek out others and to get to know them and others on your servers. Names became famous (or infamous) on that server.

Wow, really off topic here. Yeah so crafting...uh not good for geared mythic raiders...pretty much like always. No worries, you can still make the stuff and sell it to the rest of us plebs, of which there are far more of.

This was well thought out and done. I actually have to agree with you upon further thought, and kinda miss those days

[Wingspan]

Playing devil advocate on this though -- you are confusing NEED with WANT. You may WANT to kill faster if you don't raid but you don't NEED to kill faster. There is a difference. With raids it can be things like enrage timers you are against and just the common sense of its a raid -- its a much more difficult content therefore the enhanced gear is required to be successful.

By that logic, then then once you have manged to kill that boss (almost always by beating the enrage timer) then you no longer NEED better gear to face that content. Also, top guilds have proven again and again and again that they don't NEED all of the best gear to down the newest bosses... so should we stop giving them better gear?

Regardless, need or want, a driving force behind nearly all computer gaming (particularly WoW) is some sort of progression. If someone wants (or feels they need) to kill quest mobs in a global, then who are we to say that is wrong?

[Socialhealer]

Yes crafting will be plain useless right from the start because every prof is entweint with others:
Hey you wanna buy that recipe sure bring me some lw mats and some enchanter mats - wth?
you wanna buy that recipe? sure gimme some lw mats and ores - ok?
you wanna buy that recipe over there too? sure just hand me some leathers and some gems - ok, fuck up and keep them. Im a fucking lw/skinner and there blizzard claims you dont need alts with all professions.

apart from the fact that it takes to then also open the forge - you better invest your time in getting gear from everywhere else.
Its just not worth the time, at ALL.

WoD did it right with upgradeable gear.

shit if only we had an auction house where you could buy those things.

[Kikazz]

This is false. Blizzard has stated that this restriction is removed in Legion

that is amazing full 850 geared people in a few days if there loaded like me and obliterum is as easy to come by as people in this thread state.

[roahn the warlock]

Simple, because I want to kill faster no matter what the situation, don't you want to kill faster?

I do, that's why I raid, because I understand the rules of the game and how they work.

- - - Updated - - -

By that logic, then then once you have manged to kill that boss (almost always by beating the enrage timer) then you no longer NEED better gear to face that content. Also, top guilds have proven again and again and again that they don't NEED all of the best gear to down the newest bosses... so should we stop giving them better gear?

Regardless, need or want, a driving force behind nearly all computer gaming (particularly WoW) is some sort of progression. If someone wants (or feels they need) to kill quest mobs in a global, then who are we to say that is wrong?

No, the "By that logic" Doesn't apply in this situation, we're good enough to get the better stuff, so that is our reward. You aren't rewarded for being bad at the game. Just like every game since ever.

[Wingspan]

I do, that's why I raid, because I understand the rules of the game and how they work.

- - - Updated - - -

No, the "By that logic" Doesn't apply in this situation, we're good enough to get the better stuff, so that is our reward. You aren't rewarded for being bad at the game. Just like every game since ever.

You might not have realized this, but with that comment I was specifically addressing was the Need/Want comment that I had quoted. And it was a perfectly logical conclusion when applied to the argument that was presented in the quote.

What I was NOT addressing was any form of entitlement atitude like the one you present. There is nothing that says you MUST be rewarded because you are "good enough" at any particular standard. If you are beating the hard content without upgrades, then you clearly do not NEED upgrades... You merely WANT them.

Progression is a part of nearly all games (and probably should be), but it does not need to be exclusively tied to being "good enough" at something.

[Hexxidecimal]

I do, that's why I raid, because I understand the rules of the game and how they work.

- - - Updated - - -



No, the "By that logic" Doesn't apply in this situation, we're good enough to get the better stuff, so that is our reward. You aren't rewarded for being bad at the game. Just like every game since ever.

Wait...you interrupt "not raiding" as being bad at the game?

Also raiders still get better stuff. Crafted stuff Tops out at 850. That is the lowest level of normal raid gear. If anything rolls higher then you have better gear and the moment you start doing mythics, well the results are obvious yeah?

Maybe I missing something...or you are. How far back did you read before posting a response?

[kamuimac]

Really crappy system. I was under the impression that you would be able to craft really good gear, but it would take a lot of time and effort. The only thing I see being worthwhile doing is mythic+ dungeons if you don't want to raid.

oh it will be worth it dont worry our playerbase will take care of it - after initial 3-4 weeks you wont get in any of groups for mythci dungeons without having at least 850 itlv same as with normal and 850 will be upgraded with obliterium crafted gear

[pmkaboo]

to get 850 in raids you need to complete normal first, multiple times, so if anything, crafted gear will make normal difficulty pointless.

[Echocho]

oh it will be worth it dont worry our playerbase will take care of it - after initial 3-4 weeks you wont get in any of groups for mythci dungeons without having at least 850 itlv same as with normal and 850 will be upgraded with obliterium crafted gear

I'll be running mythic+ with a solid group of friends. I was hoping I could do crafting as a side activity but now it's pretty much pointless.

[Hexxidecimal]

I'll be running mythic+ with a solid group of friends. I was hoping I could do crafting as a side activity but now it's pretty much pointless.

Pointless to gear yourself? Yes. Pointless to make money with? We'll see. Though crafted gear may still fill a few slots for a few weeks.

[Echocho]

Pointless to gear yourself? Yes. Pointless to make money with? We'll see. Though crafted gear may still fill a few slots for a few weeks.

Yes but as an endgame method of character progression it won't be more than a stepping stone. If you'd be able to upgrade one item every month to the iLvl cap if you put in the time and effort then crafting would actually be a worthwhile activity for a long time.
Make it BOP after the initial 850 iLvls or something.