Arms Legion Discussion

[Artunias]

I think it's more "Wait 'til someone hits ptr to see what the change really is, rather than freaking out based on a datamined tooltip."

Maybe we would have given them the benefit of the doubt before WoD. WoD was a turd packed dumpster fire when it came to warrior design. While Legion is certainly better there are still plenty of full retard decisions being made. And just like WoD they are issues we have been talking about and bringing up constantly for over 6 months now.

[stevan021]

Can someone explain to me how can random people on the forums have better ideas for warrior class design than people who have been doing it for 10+ years as a full time job? It boggles my mind.

Alternative is that our ideas are shit.

[Yassy]

What do you guys think about Arms pvp in Legion? Will we be fucked without the self heal?

In Solo BG play? Yeah, you'll die a lot.

In arranged team play? We still have DBTS and Defensive stance. You might say Defensive Stance sucks because of 10% damage debuff, but our abilities cater towards set up kills anyway. Which means our sustained damage is less important. We have full control of our burst and it comes out in one GCD. Focused Rage lasts 30 seconds so its not like Wings where someone just starts spamming stuns or control into you. You hit your GG macro and chunk someone for half of their health.

Defensively our class should be fine but we wont know until Ranked turns up and people get familiar enough with what comps work well, what healers are most viable. I think people are drastically underestimating how powerful that healing debuff is going to be with Dampening + Debuff. If dampening still exists, i havnt looked into it.

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Can someone explain to me how can random people on the forums have better ideas for warrior class design than people who have been doing it for 10+ years as a full time job? It boggles my mind.

Alternative is that our ideas are shit.

The people on our Forums have played Warrior for 10+ years. I'd say most of the game designers working on Class design in WoW have not played Warrior heavily for 10+ years.

[mysticx]

Can someone explain to me how can random people on the forums have better ideas for warrior class design than people who have been doing it for 10+ years as a full time job? It boggles my mind.

Alternative is that our ideas are shit.

A bunch of us have been playing warrior for 10+ years, i sincerely doubt any single person at Blizz has been working on the class for even half as long TBH...

[Murlocbait]

The people on our Forums have played Warrior for 10+ years. I'd say most of the game designers working on Class design in WoW have not played Warrior heavily for 10+ years.

A bunch of us have been playing warrior for 10+ years, i sincerely doubt any single person at Blizz has been working on the class for even half as long TBH...

Basically this ^ Also, there has never been any evidence that Blizz uses dedicated teams for each class. While it would make sense to me, there doesn't seem to be a "warrior team" and a "priest team" each focused on making sure a given class is fun, interesting, and competitive. With that in mind, it means that the same people work on multiple classes, perhaps all classes. That means their attention and energy is split across the whole game to make sure every class is "fun" and "interesting," with varying results. What you see here are typically folks dedicated to playing a single class, many of them for more than a decade. I don't give two shits about whether Shamans are fun to play, all I care about are warriors. That makes it a lot easier to focus on ideas that make warriors fun and interesting, but Blizz doesn't have that luxury - as far as i can tell. It's their own damn fault, but it is what it is.

[stevan021]

A bunch of us have been playing warrior for 10+ years, i sincerely doubt any single person at Blizz has been working on the class for even half as long TBH...

People in Ukraine earn like 200 dollars per month on average. They could even Skype them into meetings (top pvp/pve ppl). Are they that clueless?

[Nightstalker]

I highly doubt that the Team responsible for class design is bigger than 10 people. I suppose that at least 50% of the ~230 people working on WoW right now are just there for graphics/technical stuff.

[Archimtiros]

Are the artifact traits multiplicative?

Yes.

With the fervor buff. If you have Trauma, Fervor, and the WW trait on the artifact it basically seems to shit on just about everything in terms of raw damage and DPR sans execute or MS with the the legendary gloves.

I'm fairly certain there were other buffs/nerfs that didn't make it into this build and I wouldn't be surprised if a base nerf to Arms Whirlwind or buff to Slam were one of them, to account for the corresponding Fervor buff.

[WarTV]

People in Ukraine earn like 200 dollars per month on average. They could even Skype them into meetings (top pvp/pve ppl). Are they that clueless?

no ty. the last time they did that for pvp (cata/mop) it ended up being torture 20mn+ games based mainly around chain cc.

[Deleted]

Okay so I've been playing beta for awhile now, but I wonder...Is OP better than Dauntless? Feels really awkward sometimes playing with OP.

And another one, is Mortal Combo the goto choice atm?

[Artunias]

Okay so I've been playing beta for awhile now, but I wonder...Is OP better than Dauntless? Feels really awkward sometimes playing with OP.

And another one, is Mortal Combo the goto choice atm?

OP is for single target only, but is pretty good on single target. Dauntless is mostly the default choice. Mortal Combo is pretty much never good.

[Deleted]

OP is for single target only, but is pretty good on single target. Dauntless is mostly the default choice. Mortal Combo is pretty much never good.

Thanks for the answers!
Okay, so In for the Kill is better? (Single target)

[Archimtiros]

Thanks for the answers!
Okay, so In for the Kill is better? (Single target)

Yes, even post nerf, though Focused Rage (if you can stand the playstyle) catches up in terms of burst damage and is better if there's no Execute phase.

[Deleted]

Yes, even post nerf, though Focused Rage (if you can stand the playstyle) catches up in terms of burst damage and is better if there's no Execute phase.

Yeah I guessed FR would be the winner over In For The Kill in some cases. I hope they change Slam to be better than Whirlwind soon. Don't want to spam WW another exp...

[Kirbydude65]

I don't give two shits about whether Shamans are fun to play, all I care about are warriors. That makes it a lot easier to focus on ideas that make warriors fun and interesting, but Blizz doesn't have that luxury - as far as i can tell. It's their own damn fault, but it is what it is.

That's not necessarily a fault. Sure people aren't all focused on one class and there are ideas that could make specs a lot better, if they had say dedicated teams. The issue is though when you do that, you breed isolation between the development teams and suddenly they're so focused on one class and helping it, they could potentially leave the class overpowered/underpowered.

Let's say for example Blizzard did have a dedicated Warrior team. They suddenly notice that the Warrior struggles in PVP against frost mages, because of all of their slows, snares, and escape mechanisms. So they change Avatar so that you can't be stopped while you're under the effects of these things. Suddenly Frost Mages are like, "Yo what the hell man? You took away our shtick (Yiddish word)! " Not only did it nullify the Frost Mage, but it now every ranged class that doesn't have the same tools as a frost mage is REALLY in trouble.

Having isolated teams for class balance could have dire, effects and a terrible Arms race when it comes to class utility and balance.

That being said, I think there are a lot better ways to do it as opposed to the way Blizzard is doing it now. Personally I've always liked the approach SWTOR had were the community elects members of each classes specialization to speak on behalf of the spec to Bioware/EA.

[Trmp]

So when is this chat with FinalBoss like last year Archimitiros, Sarri?

[Archimtiros]

That's not necessarily a fault. Sure people aren't all focused on one class and there are ideas that could make specs a lot better, if they had say dedicated teams. The issue is though when you do that, you breed isolation between the development teams and suddenly they're so focused on one class and helping it, they could potentially leave the class overpowered/underpowered.

Let's say for example Blizzard did have a dedicated Warrior team. They suddenly notice that the Warrior struggles in PVP against frost mages, because of all of their slows, snares, and escape mechanisms. So they change Avatar so that you can't be stopped while you're under the effects of these things. Suddenly Frost Mages are like, "Yo what the hell man? You took away our shtick (Yiddish word)! " Not only did it nullify the Frost Mage, but it now every ranged class that doesn't have the same tools as a frost mage is REALLY in trouble.

Having isolated teams for class balance could have dire, effects and a terrible Arms race when it comes to class utility and balance.

That being said, I think there are a lot better ways to do it as opposed to the way Blizzard is doing it now. Personally I've always liked the approach SWTOR had were the community elects members of each classes specialization to speak on behalf of the spec to Bioware/EA.

Not to mention what happens when one team is simply better or more involved, than the other.

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So when is this chat with FinalBoss like last year Archimitiros, Sarri?

Probably won't be one. He wouldn't say it in public, but I'm more or less persona non grata around there.

[Basilmoyh]

After playing Arms on PTR, there's a lot to like. You can add talents to make it feel really good, however, you can have certain talents and get stuck waiting a full 45 second for Colossal Smash to return with nothing mush to do but an odd Mortal Strike and a few Slams, which is just awful. It would be nice to have some protection against the awful moments. I like the random nature of Colossal Smash resetting, but I'm not sure how Blizzard decided a 45 second CD for Colossal Smash was a good idea, if they ever consider waiting the full 45 seconds was practical... Imo, there should be one of the following changes.
1. Reduce the base CD of Colossal smash to the ballpark of 24-30 seconds as protection against bad procs.
2. Change Colossal Smash to be activated ability, like Overpower. Change Colossal Smash to a true proc (as protection against RNG). And change Colossal Smash to charge system, like Mortal Combo does for Mortal Strike.

I like the spec, really like it, but I do not want to ever wait 45 seconds for Colossal Smash, especially if some add is in need of some good execution.

[Murlocbait]

Having isolated teams for class balance could have dire, effects and a terrible Arms race when it comes to class utility and balance.

Well, that seems pretty easy to solve with some oversight. One person or maybe 3 people who oversee the class teams and ensure they all work well in a "big picture" sense. So when they see the warrior team trying to turn them into unstoppable killing machines, they come down and tell them to dial it down and keep certain weaknesses in place. Also, developers should always be willing to throw out their baby, as it were and not push for their class to be the best. I'm not saying it would be perfect, just that it's a major difference between what the devs do/can do and what someone will see on a forum dedicated specifically to warrior gameplay. I still feel it would be better have dedicated teams, but my opinion is ultimately meaningless.

[Deleted]

CS just begs to be made a chargable ability. Just like current Shadow Dance.