Warlock Legion PvP thread.

[Drakile]

We tested this in alpha , I was worried about it too but it seems DH's can only get that buff from slaying a demon that grants exp.

Oh ok groovy, thank you sir

[Mehrunes]

Tbh the fundamental flaw in the last 2 rows is lack of synergy with other talents and playstyles of affliction.

Not just for PvP. Our Legendaries are also disjointed from the UA stacking design. Oh, a 4% damage increase per target with UA. Yay for 4% damage increase then unless you're swimming in Soul Shards for some reason. Then there's 25% to refund a Shard when casting UA on a target unaffected by it, so yay, 25% chance to get one Shard. Then there's a slow on Corruption.

The even sadder thing is that these Legendaries seem to fit our PvP design more, since for some reason they want us to multidot UA there despite how it (brilliantly) works in Legion (which makes PvE and PvP design disjointed). And yet, Legendaries don't work in PvP. Well, at least in organized PvP, maybe they do work in random world PvP, I'm not sure. So I suppose world PvP could be our niche!

Add shit tier Artifact traits for Affliction and you have utter garbage spec. Shame they removed the extra DoT on 45 sec CD or so from the Artifact, it was the only trait we had that didn't suck because it had to be counter-balanced by idiotic mechanic of having to kill 5 targets. The only upside is that it looks nice.

melees seem to be doing 4 times our dmg in bgs atm

And like a quarter of them (Hunters included since they work more similarly to melee than casters) has some anti-DoT mechanic. DHs and Monks (I think) can utterly wreck you with theirs, DHs and Rogues have shorter CDs on theirs and Hunters can take a PvP Talent that basically makes them take 20% less damage from Affliction. PvP balance, particularly between melee and casters, has never been this bad.

I'm thinking of testing a new build with pleasure through pain / demon bolt, with a 0.5 reduction in cast time and increased damage , it should accelerate shard regen making it possible to pull off max pets for the majority of the duration, given that master summoner no longer increases pet duration to 100% though the instant cast is still good enough to make it a viable talent on that tier.

I'm looking to test 2 builds with these talents in mind: demonic calling,Shadowy inspiration, demon bolt , pleasure through pain ,summon darkglare, service / synergy, master summoner ( or any of the others depending on the build).

Basically 1 build will be focused on demon bolt damage, going for things like Sinspiration, GoSynergy , demon bolt.
While the other build will be an attempt to maximize demons with summon dark glare.

Basically with pleasure through pain Sbolt/Dbolt should have around 1.2 s cast times or shorter depending on haste values, thats pretty fast and will make the build fluid, only downside is we lose felguard as main pet, and we trade a stun for a ranged CC, in which case Ill just use succ for CC instead of fear, plus we gain a knockback which will be good vs world of meleecraft.

Only downside with this is we cannot pick call felhunter thus losing a ranged interrupt, but at the rate melee are increasing I dont think it will be a problem in almost any pvp scenario outside of competitive 3v3.

I thought of that build before too, but then realized that Demonbolt deals Chaos damage now and Pleasure Through Pain boosts only Shadow damage. In theory Chaos is a multi-type school, but I'm not sure if it's boosted by buffs only to a single one. But if it works, then it could be good. Demonbolt would synergize well with shorter casts allowing for more demons at a time (though personally I'd go with Shadowflame for even more Shards during the build-up and some burst-ish stacking DoT, add Implosion for closing spell in the cycle). With burst in mind I was thinking about choosing Fel Lord or Observer in last PvP row, especially if they boost Demonbolt even further (I have no idea if they do), but Felguard needing two Shards on top of non-instant Dreadstalkers could make the build-up harder.

[wholol]

I thought of that build before too, but then realized that Demonbolt deals Chaos damage now and Pleasure Through Pain boosts only Shadow damage. In theory Chaos is a multi-type school, but I'm not sure if it's boosted by buffs only to a single one. But if it works, then it could be good. Demonbolt would synergize well with shorter casts allowing for more demons at a time (though personally I'd go with Shadowflame for even more Shards during the build-up and some burst-ish stacking DoT, add Implosion for closing spell in the cycle). With burst in mind I was thinking about choosing Fel Lord or Observer in last PvP row, especially if they boost Demonbolt even further (I have no idea if they do), but Felguard needing two Shards on top of non-instant Dreadstalkers could make the build-up harder.

It does state demon bolt in the tooltip if chosen though, I'm pretty sure the damage boost affects it too, but as stated I think the pet oriented spec with darkglare will be a better over demonbolt as it also indirectly buffs Thalkiel's consumption which also seems to double dip with the shadow damage increase from pleasure through pain.

I think with a pet focused build, you could go for service instead of synergy and with the faster SB's u can probably pull off max pets thalkiel's consumption for some ridiculous amounts.

[Mehrunes]

No kidding. Between barrage, warriors, rogues and ret paladins I am not sure how I am expected to actually test things. I was really looking forward to testing the pvp talent system and seeing how well Blizzard delivered on the "tanky" caster, but I gave up in frustration.

Playing a warrior with no healer was more enjoyable and I actually lived long enough to push more than 1-3 buttons. Normally it is the opposite for me.

Blizzard delivered on tanky caster by removing Soul Link for Aff and Destro, Dark Bargain for all (leaving only Sacrificial Pact (yay) from that tier), our increased health, stamina buff, increased healing taken, reduced damage taken/increased armor (from what I recall it returned for a moment during Alpha), Dark Regeneration and passive healing from GoSac. Also Aff's only stun, its slow, Demonic Circle (well, I suppose this one is in line with "tanky caster", gotta take the beating in the face), Unbound Will and from what I read, even access to Command Demon when using GoSac (including our Last Stand then).

And replaced all of that with the shittiest level 15 Talent we have right now (especially for Affliction) that's slightly less shit if you waste a Talent spot on it (then again with Shadowfury gone for Aff and bizarre Howl of Terror nerf it's the best thing there by default). And some extra self healing if you take Siphon Life and/or Phantom Singluarity, which matters nothing because you're basically Honor pinata at this point. A honor pinata that has clunky way of dealing damage with the developers unsure if they want us to stack UA or multidot it and worst Artifact Traits possible.

It does state demon bolt in the tooltip if chosen though, I'm pretty sure the damage boost affects it too, but as stated I think the pet oriented spec with darkglare will be a better over demonbolt as it also indirectly buffs Thalkiel's consumption which also seems to double dip with the shadow damage increase from pleasure through pain.

I think with a pet focused build, you could go for service instead of synergy and with the faster SB's u can probably pull off max pets thalkiel's consumption for some ridiculous amounts.

Well, it mentions Demonbolt in the faster cast time which is a given with how it's a direct replacement to Shadow Bolt. And yeah, Demonbolt vs Darkglare is one less demon to fuel Thal'kiel, but the upside is another source of damage scaling with demon bonanza. Then again I have no idea if the scaling with pets of Demonbolt outweighs Darkglare+stronger Thal'kiel. And yeah, if going full pet with Darkglare, GoServ makes sense.

[wholol]

Well, it mentions Demonbolt in the faster cast time which is a given with how it's a direct replacement to Shadow Bolt. And yeah, Demonbolt vs Darkglare is one less demon to fuel Thal'kiel, but the upside is another source of damage scaling with demon bonanza. Then again I have no idea if the scaling with pets of Demonbolt outweighs Darkglare+stronger Thal'kiel. And yeah, if going full pet with Darkglare, GoServ makes sense.

Yeah that's what I'm trying to figure out too, but for pvp specifically, the less we have to rely on hard cast spells the better tbh.

Most likely darkglare will be the go to since it's a fire and forget sort of thing,and you might not always benefit fully from demonbolt since you can't guarantee you will be able to spam cast all the time ( even with immunity circle ), given that we have to move or end up getting CCed/ stunned etc.

[Blk]

With two months to go - how are things looking for affliction? Is there anything that makes you believe it will work well in arenas/rbgs? I still have no beta and the PTR just made me want to leave warlock for good.

[Spunt]

IF they are aiming for warlocks to be tanky casters, they missed their mark by a very wide margin. At least on PTR, melee just destroys aff locks. I really hope number tuning ups warlocks durability. Right now, it's garbage and we have next to no way to get away from them now either since all our mobility was destroyed as well.

Also noticed my pets would not attack people. Even when I hit the attack button, my pet would just sit next to me doing nothing.

[Nopkplease]

It seems like as affliction you are going to need to take essence drain and use it a lot of you are getting trained. Just means that they are going to really shut down your pressure if you are trying to keep essence drain life stacked on 2 targets while getting tunneled by Turbo or RMD. I normally play with a Resto Shaman who will be able to talent into Earth Shield which gives a 20% damage reduction now, guess they just really want to keep the traditional lock/shaman synergy going in Legion.

I don't see how affliction gets enough additional healing over Demo to make up for not having Soul Link unless I'm missing something. All i really see is talenting into Siphon life and a few minor boosts to healing from your artifact.

[Kirroth]

At least on PTR, melee just destroys aff locks.

Pre-launch at the old level cap is always hilariously imbalanced. The classes aren't balanced at that level because the Devs made no effort to do so. The balance target is the new level cap, not the old one. Plus they haven't even finished doing their balancing for Legion.

In this case, melee are destroying everyone on the PTR, not just Warlocks. Which IIRC is typical of pre-launch patches, for some reason of game mechanics I'm not well versed it. Don't freak out over it. Wait till we get to 110 and hit the battlegrounds. If melee are still obliterating us then, then you can start to freak out.

[Spunt]

Pre-launch at the old level cap is always hilariously imbalanced. The classes aren't balanced at that level because the Devs made no effort to do so. The balance target is the new level cap, not the old one. Plus they haven't even finished doing their balancing for Legion.

In this case, melee are destroying everyone on the PTR, not just Warlocks. Which IIRC is typical of pre-launch patches, for some reason of game mechanics I'm not well versed it. Don't freak out over it. Wait till we get to 110 and hit the battlegrounds. If melee are still obliterating us then, then you can start to freak out.

I'm hoping that's the case.

To be honest, I do like how aff feels in PVP. I run around dotting everything up and wait for opportunity to dump a bunch of UAs into someone. Feels like a lock should, just dot the bejesus out of everyone and cackle maniacally.

[Deleted]

They need to give Affliction and Destruction Soul Link back.

Drain Life spamming and a bit more Health doesn't quite cut it.

[Deleted]

Pre-launch at the old level cap is always hilariously imbalanced. The classes aren't balanced at that level because the Devs made no effort to do so. The balance target is the new level cap, not the old one. Plus they haven't even finished doing their balancing for Legion.

In this case, melee are destroying everyone on the PTR, not just Warlocks. Which IIRC is typical of pre-launch patches, for some reason of game mechanics I'm not well versed it. Don't freak out over it. Wait till we get to 110 and hit the battlegrounds. If melee are still obliterating us then, then you can start to freak out.

Don't worry, it is the same thing at 110. Melee just utterly destroys everyone.

The issues as far as I can tell for affliction:

No burst, and slowly killing people doesn't work when they can destroy you in seconds. Aff tankiness relies entirely on channeling drain life / soul on a target, while having essence drain. Even with a fully stacked essence drain, you probably still die rather quickly. Now, this tankiness basically HAS to work for you, because you don't have any mobility to get anywhere. Last but not least, you have no slows or snares, so if your enemy realizes he might not win this fight, he can literally just run away from you. Any kind of mobility increase to get away from you, pop selfheal (Which every class/spec has in some form now), mount up and run off. You literally can't stop people from just disengaging.

Same thing for all warlocks. So, basically, warlocks are way less tanky death knights, with no slows and a lot fewer disables, roughly same mobility. Don't be alarmed if you feel rather useless as a warlock in PvP, it is entirely normal.

[Deleted]

In PVP affliction is actually quite good atm, even before art and pvp talents. Tanky as hell

[Deleted]

In PVP affliction is actually quite good atm, even before art and pvp talents. Tanky as hell

Until you have 1 or 2 melee sitting on you. Good luck doing pretty much anything at that point.

[Deleted]

Until you have 1 or 2 melee sitting on you. Good luck doing pretty much anything at that point.

That's true for any class that has 2 dudes sitting on you.

You know I've been a warlock longer than most (since vanilla) and one of the reasons I've, after many years, switched main is because of this issue You facetank everyone and the only thing going for you is tankiness which is either too high or too low. A thin line to balance that can break the class in one setting and fix in another or reverse. Getting interrupted by all sorts of effects is infuriating too

I am happier as DK main since MOP ;p Still playing my lock though. Too much sentiment to ignore him.

[rubenmsalles]

That's true for any class that has 2 dudes sitting on you.

You know I've been a warlock longer than most (since vanilla) and one of the reasons I've, after many years, switched main is because of this issue You facetank everyone and the only thing going for you is tankiness which is either too high or too low. A thin line to balance that can break the class in one setting and fix in another or reverse. Getting interrupted by all sorts of effects is infuriating too

I am happier as DK main since MOP ;p Still playing my lock though. Too much sentiment to ignore him.

As a alt warlock that pvp i can say it is true. in PTR, you can take much dmg, but with 1 or 2 meele on you, can't do a thing right now, just spam corruption/syphon life and wait for the window to cast fear and start you pressure (if their rotate their stunts and interrupts, you are death with no escape)

[Deleted]

That's true for any class that has 2 dudes sitting on you.

You know I've been a warlock longer than most (since vanilla) and one of the reasons I've, after many years, switched main is because of this issue You facetank everyone and the only thing going for you is tankiness which is either too high or too low. A thin line to balance that can break the class in one setting and fix in another or reverse. Getting interrupted by all sorts of effects is infuriating too

I am happier as DK main since MOP ;p Still playing my lock though. Too much sentiment to ignore him.

A lot of specs do have tools to make that situation way more beneficial though. Especially because a lot of other classes can use cooldowns to actually do something while they are getting trained, or iceblock to make them really waste their time on you. Warlocks just reduce the damage taken, meaning you can now survive 5 seconds instead of 3 (Exaggeration, at least partially).

Just did some destruction lock PvP, much more enjoyable. You can actually burst people down, you pretty much only cast instant cast spells, and you are pretty much just as tanky. Affliction can do a bunch of damage overall in a battleground, but I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is actually doing anything. An affliction lock dotted me up when I was playing as destro, and it did almost nothing to me, so I ignored it and blasted away at others in the meanwhile. Same thing with demonology, having a few pets punching you while you just continue burning others down.

Firestone makes a huuuuuge difference though, without it you don't seem nearly as bursty.

Edit: I just wish our tankiness wasn't so reliant on channeling drain life / soul. Seeing a return of the old soul leech for destruction, that actually heals you, would be great. Or just more than the 10% leech we have right now, it just doesn't seem to do much against the kind of burst melee can pull off right now.

[wholol]

There's a major issue with soul leech being purgeable/ spellstealable , this is our core tankiness and a lot of classes seem to be able to remove it entirely, hek mages can steal our tankiness :c

Hope they fix this soon tbh.

[Spunt]

There's a major issue with soul leech being purgeable/ spellstealable , this is our core tankiness and a lot of classes seem to be able to remove it entirely, hek mages can steal our tankiness :c

Hope they fix this soon tbh.

So mages get tankiness AND mobility. Awesome.

[dholland662]

I'm actually wondering if essence drain can be a thing on affli given it's history with drain tanking etc, I also hope affliction doesn't end up as a garbage spec :/

Well if it does it will be because of the damage and possibly the two gold rings.

Mechanically it seems pretty good. Possible issues with UA stacking aside.

The PVP feedback says they want to balance the specs better, which for affliction would mean better single target I imagine