Ember - Spiritual Successor of Firefall.

[DesoPL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij0AoAC5VsE

If petition will go well, Ember will be seriously Successor of Firefall, why?

Red 5 after releasing 1.7 patch Devil's Due is gone silent. Game got again lots of bugs, and FF is getting abandoned. Some people wish and hope, R5 might sold FF to new team, what might ressurect FF but no chances.

What is Ember? Everything what Firefall should be from begining.

https://www.change.org/p/crixa-labs-...edium=copylink

Mark Kern who worked on SC, Diablo 2, WoW vanilla and FF is working on it.

What i can say? Let's give an chance!

I apologize if topic exists, i can't find it. Search option is searching on whole forums. :O

[zito]

He fucked up the first time so he wants to start over after starting over how many times on FF? YA NO

[Rakaji]

He fucked up the first time so he wants to start over after starting over how many times on FF? YA NO

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

[Edge-]

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

He got fired from Red 5 after Firefall ended up languishing in beta for over 3 years with constant direction shifts and one system after another created, dropped, picked back up again, overhauled, and then dropped again.

It was painfully obvious externally that there were issues, and when the internal reports about the issues started surfacing they weren't all that unexpected. After what happened with Firefall I don't have a ton of faith in him.

Whatever happened to that VR MMO he was making? He raised some money and I haven't seen much since then. Just quickly googled and the first thing that popped up was him complaining on Twitter that it was hard to address motion sickness issues with VR.

[Sergar]

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comme..._ceo_by_red_5/

[Zandalarian Paladin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comme..._ceo_by_red_5/

That article was debunked as false in the past.

The man had big ambitions - too big, probably - and had investors that were inversely proportionate in term of risk-taking.

They got frightened, threw him out and tried to get as much as they could before the ship sank.

[Edge-]

That article was debunked as false in the past.

By whom? I mean, I doubt everything in it is 100% correct, but it largely reflected stories about internal issues we saw elsewhere and made sense with the external situation for the game.

The man had big ambitions - too big, probably - and had investors that were inversely proportionate in term of risk-taking.

Or that they were sick of the game being stuck in what appeared to be a perpetual beta state and after roughly 3 years of beta. Investors eventually want to see the product they're funding hit the market so they can start seeing returns, they're not going to let it sit in development forever.

They got frightened, threw him out and tried to get as much as they could before the ship sank.

Or got sick of him needing to constantly raise additional funds (which he was apparently quite good at) for the game only to continue to radically change directions, requiring more testing and time in beta.

I mean, the game that was supposed to end up being a PvP focused esport removed PvP altogether because things changed so much and got so bad that nobody was PvPing. That alone should say just about everything that one needs to know. That's ignoring the extravagant pre-beta marketing spends that were going on, which were a bloody joke.

[Dezerte]

Can't say I trust the guy.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

By whom? I mean, I doubt everything in it is 100% correct, but it largely reflected stories about internal issues we saw elsewhere and made sense with the external situation for the game.



Or that they were sick of the game being stuck in what appeared to be a perpetual beta state and after roughly 3 years of beta. Investors eventually want to see the product they're funding hit the market so they can start seeing returns, they're not going to let it sit in development forever.



Or got sick of him needing to constantly raise additional funds (which he was apparently quite good at) for the game only to continue to radically change directions, requiring more testing and time in beta.

I mean, the game that was supposed to end up being a PvP focused esport removed PvP altogether because things changed so much and got so bad that nobody was PvPing. That alone should say just about everything that one needs to know. That's ignoring the extravagant pre-beta marketing spends that were going on, which were a bloody joke.

Ok, many things here.

First of all, we have no objective data - at all - on this situation. Any sides of the issues are pure deduction, but usually there's always a little truth in both sides of an issue.

The game wasn't stuck. Yes, the development eternized itself. Yes, Kern did scrap fully developed systems. However, the game did go forward. Slowly, probably too slow, but it went forward. The thing here that happened is that Kern tried too much to get something 100% perfect, which is not something you can realistically do when developping a game. You have to cut things and rework ideas. It doesn't mean that you should ship just about anything, however.

As for the funds, every single AAA games have had half their overall budget dedicated to marketting. Extravagant? No. It's a stunt just like any others. Ubisoft created massive temporary "parkour" parks for Assassin's Creed. Blizzard spent ungodly amounts of money on creating life-sized statues (and ironically buses) of their games (or, you know that Giant Gorehowl in Time Square?). I'm not even going to start about what Microsoft did with Halo.

People like to point this event because it failed, yet it was part of the regular business budget. The failed part was on the contractors too, which makes it worse.

As for that last point, as far as I'm concerned the PvP was removed after Kern left.

[Edge-]

First of all, we have no objective data - at all - on this situation. Any sides of the issues are pure deduction, but usually there's always a little truth in both sides of an issue.

We have the Glass Door/anonymous reports from internal staff and the fact that Kern was voted out by the board of directors, something that rarely happens in a company when leadership is successful. It's not a lot, but what folks said very much jives with the external view of what was happening at Red 5 with the constant shifts in direction for the game over its 3 year beta.

The game wasn't stuck. Yes, the development eternized itself. Yes, Kern did scrap fully developed systems. However, the game did go forward. Slowly, probably too slow, but it went forward. The thing here that happened is that Kern tried too much to get something 100% perfect, which is not something you can realistically do when developping a game. You have to cut things and rework ideas. It doesn't mean that you should ship just about anything, however.

The game went sideways more often than forward. The only time it started taking major steps forward was when the new leadership was put in place and they had to rush to get the game to launch. I get that Kern may have had great ideas and things may have changed, but that's part of the reality of any games development. Good leadership/team leads can push past it, Kern apparently couldn't.

As for the funds, every single AAA games have had half their overall budget dedicated to marketting. Extravagant? No. It's a stunt just like any others. Ubisoft created massive temporary "parkour" parks for Assassin's Creed. Blizzard spent ungodly amounts of money on creating life-sized statues (and ironically buses) of their games (or, you know that Giant Gorehowl in Time Square?). I'm not even going to start about what Microsoft did with Halo.

This is not always true, and Firefall was absolutely not a AAA game. Not to mention, they market their game when people can start buying it. Their marketing is focused at driving sales around peak hype points. Much of Firefalls marketing budget was spent on stuff like "official" cosplay models that were around for a bit and then disappeared, that gigantic waste of money bus, and plenty of parties and other events/sponsorships to build the games brand but never turned into sell through. The marketing failed for the game, that's why it's an issue. For those other games, it succeeded.

People like to point this event because it failed, yet it was part of the regular business budget. The failed part was on the contractors too, which makes it worse.

Regular business budget? People were even calling out the extravagant pre-launch/pre-beta marketing spends when they were happening. It's absolutely not a part of any regular plan or budget for any game I've worked on over the years.

As for that last point, as far as I'm concerned the PvP was removed after Kern left.

http://www.firefallthegame.com/news/...tter-about-pvp

Erm...he wrote the letter about the removal of PvP, dude. He was there throughout the games evolution/devolution to that point.

[Deleted]

> Mark kern

yeah... nope

game is already doomed to fail

The problem with Kern and FF was that if he wanted something changed it had to be changed..
he changed his opinions on things way too often and dictated what could stay and not stay, it made the game have a super long development time and have huge ups and downs.

Not only that but he would from time to time comment to some random bloke playing FF about some feature of the game being removed or added without having told the people at Red5.
Wasn't he also the one that wanted to use a HUGE part of their budget on stupid advertisements and tv-shows that failed hard?

[Sergar]

Ok, many things here.

First of all, we have no objective data - at all - on this situation. Any sides of the issues are pure deduction, but usually there's always a little truth in both sides of an issue.

We have plenty of objective data in addition to rumor and hearsay. From those, we can reconstruct more or less what happened.

The game wasn't stuck. Yes, the development eternized itself. Yes, Kern did scrap fully developed systems. However, the game did go forward. Slowly, probably too slow, but it went forward. The thing here that happened is that Kern tried too much to get something 100% perfect, which is not something you can realistically do when developping a game. You have to cut things and rework ideas. It doesn't mean that you should ship just about anything, however.

I disagree with your opinion. In addition, we have many reports, unobjective as they may be, that the development decisions and management style of Mark Kern contributed to the overall volatility and instability in Red 5. Now, maybe all of those reports are mistaken and/or exercises in ass-covering, but Mark Kern DID have creative control over Firefall and the sort of PR and rumors you heard after he was canned were very different from those you'd hear about a beloved leader being sacked by uncaring investors.

As for the funds, every single AAA games have had half their overall budget dedicated to marketting. Extravagant? No. It's a stunt just like any others. Ubisoft created massive temporary "parkour" parks for Assassin's Creed. Blizzard spent ungodly amounts of money on creating life-sized statues (and ironically buses) of their games (or, you know that Giant Gorehowl in Time Square?). I'm not even going to start about what Microsoft did with Halo.

People like to point this event because it failed, yet it was part of the regular business budget. The failed part was on the contractors too, which makes it worse.

I take it you don't understand what a budget is. If you need to go raise money several times in the middle of development and you are still trying to do a AAA level marketing campaign you clearly fucked up and are continuing to fuck up.

for that last point, as far as I'm concerned the PvP was removed after Kern left.

Which is objectively false, the two events were nearly 6 months apart, and the developers themselves were blindsided by the change.

[dope_danny]

For what purpose?

[Justpassing]

That guy? How about no.

[ComputerNerd]

I fancy the idea, but I am not entirely convinced that Kern is the man to do it.
It is my belief that he played no small part in the decline of Firefall.

[RoninaThorstone]

I sunk a massive chunk of my life into firefall.
All I can say is this, let it go. Kern is a siren calling your wallet to the rocks.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

If anything in that big post is true then Kern is not a good dev. With how Kickstarters are mixed in quality(When it comes to video games). Idea sounds nice but I can't really trust what seems bad about Kern. Especially if it's kickstarter.


No thanks.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

All I can say is this, let it go. Kern is a siren calling your wallet to the rocks.

Quote of the day material, right here.

[Razael]

I sunk a massive chunk of my life into firefall.
All I can say is this, let it go. Kern is a siren calling your wallet to the rocks.

This is sig material.

[Ciddy]

I really enjoyed Firefall and would love to see it make a comeback in some form, but I'm very skeptical about this.