Remove LFR : FatBoss point of view

[Super Kami Dende]

Who the F enjoys being afk while ppl kill the last boss of the expansion and if they wipe they yell "#$# YOU ALL" around?

People that don't go AFK and actually have fun killing bosses?

[Echocho]

The only thing I have against LFR and really the whole multiple difficulties thing is something they mentioned in the video. It devalues the encounters, beating the last boss of the expansion should feel special and require a decent amount of work. For those that feel entitled to see the content I think spectator mode should be a thing and for the cutting edge players we could have hardmodes like we had in Ulduar.

There should exist content for everyone though, but we have lots of different things they could do. Crafters could make high end gear for themselves and/or raiders but it would require a lot of time and effort. Dungeons could be made a full time alternative to raiding and offer the same rewards if you had the time for it.
Make it so that if you wanted to do everything you'd pretty much have to play 24/7.

[kamuimac]

Dont even get me started on how LFR is the most hostile environment on WoW.

lfr most hostile ? lol clealry you havent pugged hc/mythic at all if you spew bs like this.

[Super Kami Dende]

You don't keep a shit-stain in your toilet because you're not directly sitting on it.

You remove it.

Pretty terrible analogy which involves shit, which doesn't surprise me since people that want to remove LFR are usually assholes.

[Mad_Murdock]

HANG ON GUYS! I think the Horse might have a pulse! Granted it's been beaten into nothing but a gooey puddle and ran through the grinder a few times, I think there is enough of the horse left we could probably whack it with a stick a few more times!

Has I like to add to these well thought out debates against LFR. I now have 4 level 100 toons with ilvl 700 gear from doing nothing but PvP. They dinged, I went into Ashran and BGs and just roamed around with the pack, hoped I didn't get instantly melted and within a week, full 700 loot. Far faster and much less RNG than LFR, the waiting ques were 6 mins instead of 10-30 mins. I really don't like PvP, but if just roaming around a BG\Ashran is all it takes to get decked out, I can suffer through that.

Sorry to those that might of had me in their BG groups, I don't like being worthless, but that's the breaks

[Bytch]

You know the statement "Without LFR people would do Normal" is so hilarious and false I dont even want to start....

You know it.

Im gonna give some data so you can understand what a casual player is (not "MMOC casual").Wow got its peak at Wotlk with more than 12 m players and started at around 9 m(TBC end). Two months after Wotlk release...what do you think was the average progress? Completed all heroics? Killed at least one Naxx boss? Some kind of ilvl?
After two months of release more than half of players hadnt even bought the expansion yet.
Now, I understand some of you are unable to understand this...people (like me) who knows the future changes months ahead, who play the PTR and Beta,people using simcraft but the real thruth is :those are the real casuals ....those who buy the expac a lot of time after release.


You know "Without LFR people would do Normal" its false.

But hey,keep beating the dead horse if you find it funny.

Wait!! Wut?!?!? How do you get half the people playing WotLK hadnt even bought the expac? lmao thats some hard mathing...lol. How were they playing WothLk if they hadnt bought it?!?!?!?!?

Edit: The "Without LFR, people will do Normal" excuse is correct btw. We all did Normal b4 LFR. Or found some other aspect of the game enjoyable.

[Deleted]

Hardcore raiders think LFR shouldn't excist. In other news, Is water wet? More at 6.

EDIT: I thought there was already a "LFR" thread going on? Why does this need a new one because some hardcore raiders made a video?

You forgot to end your post on a correct note, by adding:

#Triggered

[kamuimac]

The game was popular because it was new and casual friendly (old MMORPGs where very casual player unfriendly) and it came when flatrate Internet suddenly became widespread, especially in Europe. Before flatrate it was just too expensive to play 4+ hours every day online. These two factors created the perfect storm for success.

The game peaked during WotlK with one of the easiest normal mode raids ever (Nax2.0) and subs stopped rising at the end of WotlK already. During Cata the sub dropping started. For many the story was already concluded with the fall of the Lich King and the changes of the world Cataclysm made did not resonate so well with many players. The difficulty was also too high for many casual players (Blizzard registered many complains about too difficult 5 and 10 man content).

That's when Blizzard decided to implement LFR and the subs stop dropping for a while but then continued their decline. It has been a constant subscription bleeding until the launch of WoD (with a small raise of people who came back for Pandaria). WoD brought back 5 million players. All 5 millions left after about 3 months since there was no good new content patch after the good leveling experience. The subs continued to bleed until Blizzard decided to stop telling us the sub numbers since it was bad PR. Other Blizzard ips also generated tons of money, so Blizzard is not so depended on WoW anymore anyway.


If you ignore the sudden drops and peaks there is a constant bleeding of subs. If this continues (and it looks that way if you check the playerbase) then WoW should be down to 4 million subs with the launch of Legion. I guess 1-2 million will come back and leave after reaching max level again.

MMORPG history shows that big MMORPGs have a hardcore base of fans that won't ever leave (some people still play Ultima Online and Everquest 1 for example). I guess with WoW this userbase is about 1-2 million players. That's where the game will settle 2019. If Blizzard will continue the game 2020 or pull the plug depends on how much money they could make if the WoW staff would work on a different project instead.

TL;DR: LFR is not the main reason for dropping subs

bla bla bla - if you had even most basic economical knowledge you woudl know that this is exackly how every f... product life cycle in the world look like ... but f.. logic lets blame lfr.

you arguments are more r less on the level of imbeciles who vote for brexit ignoring fact fact that if britain will want to trade with any of eu countire they will still have to abide to all EU laws but will have nothing to say in their regard . but f.. logic lets build the wall and make britan/america/azeroth great again

[Darkeon]

All the hardcore players, that advocate for LFR to be removed, would be crying pure gold tears if Blizzard had to shift resources into creating and maintaining Non-Raiding content, in order to keep the masses entertained, since they couldn't justify the obnoxious amounts of Raiding focus put into Expansions, as this would cease to be both casual&dedicated end-game content.

On one side, it would be glorious. The Raiders have been catered for far too long, in this game. WoD is a shining example of that.

[Deleted]

This thread is gonna be full of people saying:

DONT LIKE IT DONT DO IT
I DO IT SO KEEP IT
I CANT DO NORMAL BECAUSE STANDARDS ARE TOO HIGH

/popcorn

It's fun because this are almost the same thing pro mythic raid thread are full of:

DONT LIKE IT DONT DO IT
I DO IT SO KEEP IT
I CANT DO LFR BECAUSE STANDARS ARE TOO LOW

/pointofviewofmillionsofpeoplearedifferent

(P.S: i am not against mythic raiding)

[Kryos]

aww the salt in tear of elitest is so real.

Why salt? Why tears? It's a correct statement. LFR just shows you the polygonal models of the bosses but does not offer the challenge, group work, fun and engagement a real raid offers. It gives you some crappy loot for doing pretty much nothing. You don't learn anything, you don't experience anything except boredom. In a sense it's like playing a game with cheatcodes. Sure, you beat the boss monster that way, but it's not exciting. It's just like a chore.

[Deleted]

"Arguments" like "don't like it don't do it" is just evading the whole topic that a WoW without LFR might be better, even for the people who currently do LFR.

So a WoW without raiding at all would be better? ....

[Barnabas]

The game was popular because it was new and casual friendly (old MMORPGs where very casual player unfriendly) and it came when flatrate Internet suddenly became widespread, especially in Europe. Before flatrate it was just too expensive to play 4+ hours every day online. These two factors created the perfect storm for success.

The game peaked during WotlK with one of the easiest normal mode raids ever (Nax2.0) and subs stopped rising at the end of WotlK already. During Cata the sub dropping started. For many the story was already concluded with the fall of the Lich King and the changes of the world Cataclysm made did not resonate so well with many players. The difficulty was also too high for many casual players (Blizzard registered many complains about too difficult 5 and 10 man content).

That's when Blizzard decided to implement LFR and the subs stop dropping for a while but then continued their decline. It has been a constant subscription bleeding until the launch of WoD (with a small raise of people who came back for Pandaria). WoD brought back 5 million players. All 5 millions left after about 3 months since there was no good new content patch after the good leveling experience. The subs continued to bleed until Blizzard decided to stop telling us the sub numbers since it was bad PR. Other Blizzard ips also generated tons of money, so Blizzard is not so depended on WoW anymore anyway.


If you ignore the sudden drops and peaks there is a constant bleeding of subs. If this continues (and it looks that way if you check the playerbase) then WoW should be down to 4 million subs with the launch of Legion. I guess 1-2 million will come back and leave after reaching max level again.

MMORPG history shows that big MMORPGs have a hardcore base of fans that won't ever leave (some people still play Ultima Online and Everquest 1 for example). I guess with WoW this userbase is about 1-2 million players. That's where the game will settle 2019. If Blizzard will continue the game 2020 or pull the plug depends on how much money they could make if the WoW staff would work on a different project instead.

TL;DR: LFR is not the main reason for dropping subs

I think the sub loss has more to do with how shitty the story has been after wotlk. They built everything up to that climax and had really nothing afterwards in comparison. LFR has nothing to do with it.

[Kryos]

bla bla bla - if you had even most basic economical knowledge you woudl know that this is exackly how every f... product life cycle in the world look like ... but f.. logic lets blame lfr.

You should learn to read stuff you comment on. You did not even read my TL;DR but start flaming based on the opposite of what I wrote. Pathetic.

[Dauntless86]

Uhm hardcore raiders would be doing Normal or higher for their ring. They wouldn't have to touch LFR due to the quest items being shared. If you are a hardcore raider then Normal should be a cakewalk for you. Also no they won't in Legion. People will get gear from Mythics then go straight to Normal with whatever Titanforged they were lucky enough to get from Heroics.

Let's define "hardcore" as "any raider who schedules time during the week to raid with a premade group in Normal difficulty or higher". There are Normal raiders who can't go do more Normal for tier pieces. Heroic/Mythic raiders could simply drop down a tier, sure, but it's not that simple.

If I'm a heroic raider and I need set bonuses to help my guild with progression, my raid lead is likely going to ask me to go out and get those pieces on my own time. As stated previously, he may even require it. I have the option of LFR or Normal. Doing Normal requires that I either go through the pain of setting up my own group and managing everything that entails, or trying to join an existing group and hoping they aren't bad, or undergeared, or on progression of their own, etc.

My other option is LFR. I can queue for it while I go do dailies or world quests throughout the week. I spend 15-30 minutes on each wing and, if I queue'd for a few wings at once, the next likely pops when I finish the one I'm in. We breeze through the whole thing, and I get a couple of the tier pieces I need without the hurdles of trying to do Normal. As for people going to Mythic 5s then straight to Normal: again, it's about the certain things that LFR rewards that are out of step with it's difficulty. In Legion's case, Tier. The values of set bonuses are huge. They are often enough to eclipse even large disparities in item level.

I don't wholly disagree with LFR as a concept. I do believe however that it should not reward anything that is on par with raids that require even a modicum of effort and coordination (i.e. Normal). This means no Tomes for ring, no Tier. I can see the argument to let LFR exist as a "way for people to see the raid" and an item-level stepping stone into harder content. But remove its handing out of rewards that so drastically outpace its difficulty.

[Deleted]

So a WoW without raiding at all would be better? ....

You think LFR is considered raiding? That's cute.

[kamuimac]

Uhm hardcore raiders would be doing Normal or higher for their ring. They wouldn't have to touch LFR due to the quest items being shared. If you are a hardcore raider then Normal should be a cakewalk for you. Also no they won't in Legion. People will get gear from Mythics then go straight to Normal with whatever Titanforged they were lucky enough to get from Heroics.

no they wont - good players will first farm max level mythic + dungeons alongside with hc raid on alts and then jump straight to mythic - the only ones doin normal will be tryhards who are to bad to clear mythic + dungeons but will need tier sets and trinekts from normal to do anything higher then mythic 2+ and true causals who dont give a single fuck about hc modes and are perfeckly happy with lfr being in game.

[Deleted]

Is lfr an antisocial feature? No
Does it stop players from trying out further content? No
Is it ever going to go away? No

Fixed that for you. Only PEOPLE can be antisocial not a thing....

Don't do lfr if you don't like it. Although, as loot tables stand in beta, welcome back forced LFR grinding for tier bonuses for high end guilds. At least LFR raiders are going to get carried through their experience even more the first few weeks.

Bullshit form an LFR Hater.
Its more like

...welcome back forced LFR grinding for tier bonuses for wannabe high end guilds.

[Kryos]

I think the sub loss has more to do with how shitty the story has been after wotlk. They built everything up to that climax and had really nothing afterwards in comparison. LFR has nothing to do with it.

That's what I wrote. Why do people comment on stuff they don't read?

[Paula Deen]

It's fun because this are almost the same thing pro mythic raid thread are full of:

DONT LIKE IT DONT DO IT
I DO IT SO KEEP IT
I CANT DO LFR BECAUSE STANDARS ARE TOO LOW

/pointofviewofmillionsofpeoplearedifferent

(P.S: i am not against mythic raiding)

Wanna know whats funnier? I am sure if you actually communicated with Mythic Raiders the stance would actually be: Get rid of it. Merge it into Heroic. Call it a day.

LFR Whiners do the exact fucking opposite and no matter how much evidence is thrown into there faces that the Difficulty needs major changes if it is going to stay around they just bitch about Mythic Raiders. Its literally strawmanning because you have no fucking argument. Its hilarious.