No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[wing5wong]

When I was lvling in Highmountain for example I found myself, yet again, swear at the poor maping... I ended up throwing myself off cliffs and spiritwalk, cba trying to find a fucking way down and the Water Strider Mount is a must have (imo). Finding your way up can be a bitch too.

Why does this come up constantly? where exactly are people having issues navigating the 'mazelike' terrain?
Im actually curious - i never had this issue. apart from different elevations, the paths are prety much a->b

[Deleted]

Why does this come up constantly? where exactly are people having issues navigating the 'mazelike' terrain?
Im actually curious - i never had this issue. apart from different elevations, the paths are prety much a->b

Maybe because you are so anti-flight you would take every shit just to confess "oh this is so great and nobody awants flight! Give me more of this Blizz, i love you."?

;-)

Sorry but i can't take you serious anymore. You would just say anything so that others that like flight just don't get it earlier.

[Incarnia]

Why does this come up constantly? where exactly are people having issues navigating the 'mazelike' terrain?
Im actually curious - i never had this issue. apart from different elevations, the paths are prety much a->b

Can't it be that it boils down to that we enjoy different things?

Sure I CAN do it, find the way and once I have I'll remember it. I just don't appreciate that type of terrain very much. It feels forced on me, what route to take, that I have to go that way. And that makes me feel like the world is smaller - call me claustrophobic I guess. Keeping to the roads, for example, I feel keeps me away from content that's not near the roads (and the more exciting things usually aren't).
I dunno, but I guess the mazes reminds me of GW in a way, and that was the biggest issue I had with that game. The already cut out path you had to follow. So I suppose that adds to the feeling. But as I said, I can take it when I'm leveling but after that I wish to get more freedom to choose. I'm not a ground mount hater, not at all - just that some types of terrain in combination with ground mounts makes me crazy, lol.

Personally I feel that Shadowmoon Valley in WoD is a well balanced ground mount zone. It's one of the reasons why I like that zone. At the same time however, I realize that not everyone likes SMV, and perhaps doesn't even feel that it is ground mount friendly. I also realize they can't design all zones to be similar, since that would get rather boring very fast. Some likes the mazes, some don't. Offering different options and variety is generally a good thing, and I feel the same about traveling in that regard.

I know some wish to purchase flight with gold, I personally prefers a quest chain of some sort and the only I "demand" I have is that flight is enabled at launch - so that we know it is there, and not this "It will come, eventually" bull crap their holding above our heads.
I know some despised Timeless Isle, Isle of Thunder and Isle of Giants but I liked them and I wouldn't mind if they had continued on that path instead of how they did it in WoD. I felt like that was a good "compromise".

[wing5wong]

Can't it be that it boils down to that we enjoy different things?

I wasnt questioning if you enjoy anything or not. I cant tell you if you enjoy flying or not, but....

Keeping to the roads, for example, I feel keeps me away from content that's not near the roads (and the more exciting things usually aren't).
I dunno, but I guess the mazes reminds me of GW in a way, and that was the biggest issue I had with that game. The already cut out path you had to follow.

....when you say its difficult to navigate surely there is an example?
I dont think ive seen a concrete example from any poster here despite this claim, unless going around a hill on a path is considered mazelike?

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Sorry but i can't take you serious anymore. You would just say anything so that others that like flight just don't get it earlier.

I like flight as well as a matter of convenience. As i said, i have a genuine interest in areas people seem to find troublesome to navigate

[Incarnia]

I wasnt questioning if you enjoy anything or not. I cant tell you if you enjoy flying or not, but....

I know you wasn't, and I know you can't do that.
I merely mentioned my stance on things since there is a high possibility otherwise that some moron will show up trying to pin opinions on me that I don't have, and/or try to blame me for calming to know how "everyone" feels and that my way is the only way. By doing this I also eliminated us risking going down that path if this conversation continues.

....when you say its difficult to navigate surely there is an example?
I dont think ive seen a concrete example from any poster here despite this claim, unless going around a hill on a path is considered mazelike?

I don't view "a hill" as a problem, nor do I consider that alone to be a maze. Try a multitude of steep cliffs, high mountains, deep rivers and lakes, larger cave systems and canyons - all in one single zone. It's difficult to give a concrete example on when it's "difficult" to navigate, it's a bigger picture scenario. (Don't think I've said it is difficult to navigate btw. I've explained why I don't enjoy it and find it annoying without the option to fly though).

[Dhrizzle]

....when you say its difficult to navigate surely there is an example?
I dont think ive seen a concrete example from any poster here despite this claim, unless going around a hill on a path is considered mazelike?

Some parts of Nagrand required you to take a moment to look around and find the correct path, especially if you were trying to find your way to a higher elevation or hunting down treasures. Gorgrond also had a couple if tricky bits particularly if you were looking for a certain cave around a mountain with several. Personally I enjoyed the sense of exploration it gave but it certainly wasn't as easy as just pointing in a direction and hitting autorun.

Spires of Arak did not have any of the same issues (barring jumping puzzles) unless you purposefully went off-road in which case you could find yourself stuck in areas that were probably supposed to just be scenery. Personally I found navigating Spires to be a lot like some of the Vanilla zones like Ashenvale, Feralas, and STV which all feature a "corridor" with "rooms" and areas you can get stuck in. Arak was, if anything, more convenient than those zones which would be tackled at either walking speed or on a 60% mount and only had one flight-path each, though for STV and Feralas it could be quicker flying to Duskwood or Thousand Needles.

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I don't view "a hill" as a problem, nor do I consider that alone to be a maze. Try a multitude of steep cliffs, high mountains, deep rivers and lakes, larger cave systems and canyons - all in one single zone. It's difficult to give a concrete example on when it's "difficult" to navigate, it's a bigger picture scenario. (Don't think I've said it is difficult to navigate btw. I've explained why I don't enjoy it and find it annoying without the option to fly though).

That sounds amazing, and also a lot like Howling Fjord.

[wing5wong]

Some parts of Nagrand required you to take a moment to look around and find the correct path, especially if you were trying to find your way to a higher elevation or hunting down treasures. Gorgrond also had a couple if tricky bits particularly if you were looking for a certain cave around a mountain with several. Personally I enjoyed the sense of exploration it gave but it certainly wasn't as easy as just pointing in a direction and hitting autorun.

These places for sure. I dont think theres anything like it in legion though.
I mean thers a variety of terrain for sure, but its generally very obvious where to point your character to get from a to b

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...larger cave systems and canyons

il give you this one in highmountain - but flying wont sort that out =P

[Maudib]

I like flight as well as a matter of convenience. As i said, i have a genuine interest in areas people seem to find troublesome to navigate

There are areas in Legion that when ground mounted, require you to ride up long paths back and forth to get to the next quest area. Of course these paths are populated with various mobs that daze and dismount.

This isn't so bad when leveling... as you get EXP, potential drops, etc and, of course, are experiencing the content at ground level... but after you are max level, and doing World Quests, it's just annoying... especially when they take a minute or two to complete and travel time may take 3-5 minutes (especially if you are dismounted and need to clear insignificant mobs).

This is made more of an issue in Legion, because these mobs scale to your level and have just as much chance to daze and dismount as they did when you were 101.


And BTW... I don't like flying just as a matter of convenience... I like flying because I enjoy it and I enjoy the perspective it gives me of the world. The added speed and directional control makes the world feel "right"... not too slow or "closed in". The fantasy is that several years ago I became a master of flight... I have flown on the likes of dragons, demons, birds of prey, hippogryphs and flying panthers... I have traversed the known world and tamed the most rare of flying creatures, proving my worth and developing deep bonds with those that would carry me to war, to unknown lands and yes... even out of danger.

For Blizzard to say I cannot fly is a complete and artificial removal from my fantasy. Do hunters, warlocks, mages, DK's, etc have to first reach max level and achieve some fancy achievement in order to bring their pet to a new world?

[Fenixdown]

After watching a few youtube vids on Legion, I think its safe to say it will be a desolate wasteland within 60 days of release.

The things you have to do to level up your artifact become ten times more tedious without flight once you get to a certain level. After watching the movie, I really wanted to give WoW another chance, but thanks to youtube, ill be saving 60 dollars.

It's funny that you say that about the movie. Every time I saw the gryphon, I muttered "omg it's ruining his immersion".

Now, if they let us use mounts as battle companions like that gryphon was...holy crap on a stick I'm in. =D

[Dhrizzle]

There are areas in Legion that when ground mounted, require you to ride up long paths back and forth to get to the next quest area. Of course these paths are populated with various mobs that daze and dismount.

This isn't so bad when leveling... as you get EXP, potential drops, etc and, of course, are experiencing the content at ground level... but after you are max level, and doing World Quests, it's just annoying... especially when they take a minute or two to complete and travel time may take 3-5 minutes (especially if you are dismounted and need to clear insignificant mobs).

This is made more of an issue in Legion, because these mobs scale to your level and have just as much chance to daze and dismount as they did when you were 101.

WoW is an open world game, a quest isn't just about tackling the things that are directly tied to your objective or increase your characters power, then content includes travelling to a location and dealing with any obstacles you find in your way.

And BTW... I don't like flying just as a matter of convenience... I like flying because I enjoy it and I enjoy the perspective it gives me of the world. The added speed and directional control makes the world feel "right"... not too slow or "closed in". The fantasy is that several years ago I became a master of flight... I have flown on the likes of dragons, demons, birds of prey, hippogryphs and flying panthers... I have traversed the known world and tamed the most rare of flying creatures, proving my worth and developing deep bonds with those that would carry me to war, to unknown lands and yes... even out of danger.

For Blizzard to say I cannot fly is a complete and artificial removal from my fantasy. Do hunters, warlocks, mages, DK's, etc have to first reach max level and achieve some fancy achievement in order to bring their pet to a new world?

If that is how you feel about flight did it not ruin the game having your fantasy destroyed in WotLK and MoP when you had to level before unlocking flight? What reason did you invent for the creatures you bonded with refusing to take-off until you handed an arbitrary sum of gold to a random person?

[Incarnia]

That sounds amazing, and also a lot like Howling Fjord.

It is and Highmountain is way more spectacular than Howling Fjord! Personally I enjoy zones like that more with flight than without it tho... I'm not a high up in the sky type of flyer, but a close to the ground darting between trees, diving down a mountain one. I Occasionally climb above the treetops just to take in the scenery from that angle too.

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il give you this one in highmountain - but flying wont sort that out =P

It sure won't xP Not with the caves at least!

Don't mind them caves that much. They can be rather exciting, altho I do have a tendency of not finding my way back out in the larger ones ahaha.

[Maudib]

WoW is an open world game, a quest isn't just about tackling the things that are directly tied to your objective or increase your characters power, then content includes travelling to a location and dealing with any obstacles you find in your way.

In your opinion. In mine, it's an open world so I can choose what I decide to engage in, and what I do not. Flying exists (whether enabled or not) and has been since BC. I chose to engage only in what I find beneficial to actually playing the game or that I enjoy as an individual.. otherwise, I stop playing. Which is exactly what I did in WoD.. for over a year... and what I will do in Legion when I tire of not being able to fly.

If that is how you feel about flight did it not ruin the game having your fantasy destroyed in WotLK and MoP when you had to level before unlocking flight? What reason did you invent for the creatures you bonded with refusing to take-off until you handed an arbitrary sum of gold to a random person?

Never said it didn't break it... but it didn't break it for long. And one could stretch that it took time in WotLK for your mounts to accustom themselves to the extreme cold environment... or that the shattering made them uneasy... but only after you showing them your courage through leveling that they could trust your judgement and commitment.

Either way... the discontinuous fantasy lasted a day or two at most... here they are delaying flying as long as possible for their own gain... to delay the consumption of content.

And in Legion, this delay isn't necessary... they even give you a WHISTLE to skip straight to the nearest flight path. They THEMSELVES are skipping all that "open world content"... and disagree with your "content includes traveling to a location and dealing with any obstacles you find in your way." position.

And I can do this from level 100/101???

I would RATHER lose the whistle and give flying back at max level.

[Florena]

In your opinion. In mine, it's an open world so I can choose what I decide to engage in, and what I do not. Flying exists (whether enabled or not) and has been since BC. I chose to engage only in what I find beneficial to actually playing the game or that I enjoy as an individual.. otherwise, I stop playing. Which is exactly what I did in WoD.. for over a year... and what I will do in Legion when I tire of not being able to fly.



Never said it didn't break it... but it didn't break it for long. And one could stretch that it took time in WotLK for your mounts to accustom themselves to the extreme cold environment... or that the shattering made them uneasy... but only after you showing them your courage through leveling that they could trust your judgement and commitment.

Either way... the discontinuous fantasy lasted a day or two at most... here they are delaying flying as long as possible for their own gain... to delay the consumption of content.

And in Legion, this delay isn't necessary... they even give you a WHISTLE to skip straight to the nearest flight path. They THEMSELVES are skipping all that "open world content"... and disagree with your "content includes traveling to a location and dealing with any obstacles you find in your way." position.

And I can do this from level 100/101???

I would RATHER lose the whistle and give flying back at max level.

The thing with the whistle though is that it connects you to said flight paths. I'm neutral on flight myself, I can take it or leave it, but having a whistle to take you to a flight point nearby is a far cry from free three dimensional movement to your exact quest target without any danger or obstacle. It's more akin to a hearthstone than flying mounts. I wouldn't try to equate the two. Of course you'd rather trade the whistle for flying at max level. I'll bet you'd also like to trade five dollars for five hundred dollars too, it's a silly thing to say because the two are not even near equal and are not intended to BE equal.

[Incarnia]

I don't like flying just as a matter of convenience... I like flying because I enjoy it and I enjoy the perspective it gives me of the world. The added speed and directional control makes the world feel "right"... not too slow or "closed in". The fantasy is that several years ago I became a master of flight... I have flown on the likes of dragons, demons, birds of prey, hippogryphs and flying panthers... I have traversed the known world and tamed the most rare of flying creatures, proving my worth and developing deep bonds with those that would carry me to war, to unknown lands and yes... even out of danger.

For Blizzard to say I cannot fly is a complete and artificial removal from my fantasy.

I do feel a lot like you on this. To me flying isn't only a convenience, I rarely think of it as that at all truth be told.

[Maudib]

The thing with the whistle though is that it connects you to said flight paths. I'm neutral on flight myself, I can take it or leave it, but having a whistle to take you to a flight point nearby is a far cry from free three dimensional movement to your exact quest target without any danger or obstacle. It's more akin to a hearthstone than flying mounts. I wouldn't try to equate the two. Of course you'd rather trade the whistle for flying at max level. I'll bet you'd also like to trade five dollars for five hundred dollars too, it's a silly thing to say because the two are not even near equal and are not intended to BE equal.

Of course it's not the same... flying at max level does not let you skip travel and leveling content. The whistle does at level 100.

And after farming many WQs in beta for the past several days... I can tell you that people are going to tire very quickly of spending more time traveling between WQ than they do actually doing them... especially since they are the EXACT same quests you did while leveling. No, really... they are the very same quests you did while leveling.

Legion is more flight friendly than any expansion before.

[Florena]

Of course it's not the same... flying at max level does not let you skip travel and leveling content. The whistle does at level 100.

And after farming many WQs in beta for the past several days... I can tell you that people are going to tire very quickly of spending more time traveling between WQ than they do actually doing them... especially since they are the EXACT same quests you did while leveling. No, really... they are the very same quests you did while leveling.

Legion is more flight friendly than any expansion before.

The whistle doesn't bring you to your specific quest target. It connects you to the nearest flight path. It's good leaving after you've completed an objective but it won't get you to it, you still have to fight your way to those quest mobs, it just makes it more convenient to leave after you're finished.

[Dzivoklis]

Nothing wrong with no flying as long as current content is new. Once next major 7.X patch goes live, give is flying. And I like the requirements for WoD flying.

Too many entitled people - work for rewards.

[Maudib]

The whistle doesn't bring you to your specific quest target. It connects you to the nearest flight path. It's good leaving after you've completed an objective but it won't get you to it, you still have to fight your way to those quest mobs, it just makes it more convenient to leave after you're finished.

So you are OK with Blizzard making it convenient to return from a quest area, but not get there? It's ok they cut half the "inconvenience" out.. but since flying at max level, doing content you have already done before, makes both directions convenient, it's a bad thing?

I just don't see the reasoning. I'm OK with flying at max level. I'm OK with doing a pathfinder achievement. I just think it shoul dbe available at launch so if I make it my priority, I can achieve flight after max level and doing the pathfinder.

What I am NOT OK with is being told... "eventually we will allow you to unlock it".

[Florena]

So you are OK with Blizzard making it convenient to return from a quest area, but not get there? It's ok they cut half the "inconvenience" out.. but since flying at max level, doing content you have already done before, makes both directions convenient, it's a bad thing?

I just don't see the reasoning. I'm OK with flying at max level. I'm OK with doing a pathfinder achievement. I just think it shoul dbe available at launch so if I make it my priority, I can achieve flight after max level and doing the pathfinder.

What I am NOT OK with is being told... "eventually we will allow you to unlock it".

As I said before I'm neutral with regards to flight. When they add it I'll use it, until then I won't sweat it. All I'm saying is that the whistle is just another form of hearthstone to get back to town basically and a far cry from free flight where you can go wherever you want.

[Dhrizzle]

Either way... the discontinuous fantasy lasted a day or two at most... here they are delaying flying as long as possible for their own gain... to delay the consumption of content.

Oh god the "delay the consumption of content" argument. You realise that anything other than letting you one-shot every mob on the continent and give you every possible reward is "delaying the consumption of content?" Some degree of "delaying the consumption of content" is expected and desirable so just because it isn't tuned to be completed as quickly as you may like doesn't mean that not pandering to people who want to be gratified as quickly as possible is a bad move.[/quote]

And in Legion, this delay isn't necessary... they even give you a WHISTLE to skip straight to the nearest flight path. They THEMSELVES are skipping all that "open world content"... and disagree with your "content includes traveling to a location and dealing with any obstacles you find in your way." position.

And I can do this from level 100/101???

I would RATHER lose the whistle and give flying back at max level.

Unless the WHISTLE deposits you next to each mob you have to kill for your objective then no, they THEMSELVES are not skipping all the open world content. It doesn't seem to be more than an enhanced form of hearthstone allowing you to travel between set points on the map.

Also, citation for reaching friendly with all factions by level 100?

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So you are OK with Blizzard making it convenient to return from a quest area, but not get there? It's ok they cut half the "inconvenience" out.. but since flying at max level, doing content you have already done before, makes both directions convenient, it's a bad thing?

Basically yes, some convenience is good, too much convenience is bad. Having options to travel around the continent quickly can help gameplay, having a button that positions you wherever you need to be can trivialise gameplay. Similarly having powerfuly abilities to kill mobs can help gameplay, having a button that one-shots all the mobs can trivialise gameplay. Having rewards to work towards can help gameplay, having everything mailed to you for logging in can trivialise gameplay.

From a design standpoint, it makes more sense for you to fight your way towards an objective then conveniently get brought back to town/flightpoint then it does to get dropped next to your target then either fight your way back out or get dropped back in town.