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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Why not put new sockets yourself? It isn't hard, and the sockets are fairly cheap. Cheap at least here in the states. So long as you have that 3rd wire, it should be easy. Obviously shut off power at the breakers. If you're not allowed to, for reasons, then move out.
    As previously stated I do not have the wire for grounding

  2. #62
    It kinda blows my mind that you guys don't require the whole house to be grounded. Over here in the US it's been required for a solid 40 or 50 years, and as far as I know if any landlord wants to rent out property it needs to all be grounded. On top of that most living spaces are AFCI protected, with bathrooms/kitchens/outside etc. being GFCI.

  3. #63
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    It kinda blows my mind that you guys don't require the whole house to be grounded. Over here in the US it's been required for a solid 40 or 50 years, and as far as I know if any landlord wants to rent out property it needs to all be grounded. On top of that most living spaces are AFCI protected, with bathrooms/kitchens/outside etc. being GFCI.
    That's because European power distribution nets aren't as dangerous/volatile as the US.
    We run at 50Hz in general where the US is 60Hz .. but that's not the biggest thing as you use ~115V and we use ~230V ... meaning you require 2 times the amount of current and is also less efficient (see 80 Plus certification numbers) than Europe.
    Current is a hell of a lot more deadly than Voltage.

    Having said that I do personally think all sockets should be grounded and all ~25 year old and newer buildings in general are, they kept it that way due to older houses here in the Netherlands which are a part of our culture.
    A lot of our cities f.ex. still have a lot of old Victorian design houses.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Evildeffy View Post
    That's because European power distribution nets aren't as dangerous/volatile as the US.
    We run at 50Hz in general where the US is 60Hz .. but that's not the biggest thing as you use ~115V and we use ~230V ... meaning you require 2 times the amount of current and is also less efficient (see 80 Plus certification numbers) than Europe.
    Current is a hell of a lot more deadly than Voltage.

    Having said that I do personally think all sockets should be grounded and all ~25 year old and newer buildings in general are, they kept it that way due to older houses here in the Netherlands which are a part of our culture.
    A lot of our cities f.ex. still have a lot of old Victorian design houses.
    That makes sense, I forgot you guys run at 230 compared to 115 we use here. But yeah some houses are the same way here if they are pretty old, still have aluminum wiring or no ground in the house etc. Also last I checked the reason we use 115 and higher amperage is due to the travel distance we have for our power along with our crappy power distribution infrastructure which is in need of an overhaul.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    That makes sense, I forgot you guys run at 230 compared to 115 we use here. But yeah some houses are the same way here if they are pretty old, still have aluminum wiring or no ground in the house etc. Also last I checked the reason we use 115 and higher amperage is due to the travel distance we have for our power along with our crappy power distribution infrastructure which is in need of an overhaul.
    The reason for your higher current is not really due to distance it's due to how electricity works.
    P = U * I

    P = Power, commonly measured in Watt
    U = The effective electrical value, commonly measured in Volt
    I = The effective current value, commonly measured in Ampere

    So if you have a target power of 1000W and you deliver 115V you need 8,7A to make that happen.
    I = P / U

    The European value for the same equation is 4,35A ... so distance has relatively little to do with it.
    If anything Volts are more affected by distance than Amps.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Evildeffy View Post
    The reason for your higher current is not really due to distance it's due to how electricity works.
    P = U * I

    P = Power, commonly measured in Watt
    U = The effective electrical value, commonly measured in Volt
    I = The effective current value, commonly measured in Ampere

    So if you have a target power of 1000W and you deliver 115V you need 8,7A to make that happen.
    I = P / U

    The European value for the same equation is 4,35A ... so distance has relatively little to do with it.
    If anything Volts are more affected by distance than Amps.
    I know the equations for it, I do stand corrected, it's not due to distant but rather it had to do with Edison and Tesla and when AC was finally being adapted. The reason other nations adopted the 230v standard is due to lower distribution costs. I guess it just came down to what they wanted to use here and nothing more, distance wasn't a factor as that's solved with specific wire gauge sizes and step up/down transformers. It's been a few years since I was an electrician, granted we didn't look into why others used 230v other than it being a lower amperage rating.

  7. #67
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    I know the equations for it, I do stand corrected, it's not due to distant but rather it had to do with Edison and Tesla and when AC was finally being adapted. The reason other nations adopted the 230v standard is due to lower distribution costs. I guess it just came down to what they wanted to use here and nothing more, distance wasn't a factor as that's solved with specific wire gauge sizes and step up/down transformers. It's been a few years since I was an electrician, granted we didn't look into why others used 230v other than it being a lower amperage rating.
    Having worked for Noratel (Scandinavian transformer/power supply producer, no not computer stuff but industrial) I picked up a couple things regarding this stuff.

    One of them is that for transforming voltages the US system is atrocious.
    It's more expensive to build, is less efficient, creates more heat and usually requires 1 step larger in transformer size vs. 230 or 400V systems.

    And that's just the single phase stuff... the triple-phase transformers ... hell we even often got requests to make aluminium windings based transformers for US ships ... that was fun to watch when our engineers had another argument with the inquiring company as to why they don't want to make those.

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