Remove LFR : FatBoss point of view

[Mirishka]

Nothing of value? It gives plenty of value to those who it is designed for. It gives nothing of value for YOU maybe, but similarly why are you even complaining about "backing down and giving tier sets" if they are nothing of value to you? Are you really so small minded that you resent someone else getting something that is WAY less powerful than you can get in Mythic? If LFR gave Mythic gear... or Heroic..... even Normal mode gear then I would see a problem but it doesn't so I REALLY don't understand why "raiders" get their panties in a twist about it.

If you really want to think about something that LFR gives YOU then think about the fact that LFR gives a LARGE percentage of the playerbase experience in one way or another of the raid zones and the bosses (even if they are easymode). Why is that "giving you something"? Simple.... if LFR was removed, then those raid zones/bosses would only be seen by a small percentage of the player base again...... a game activity that is only enjoyed by the minority?..... Less development time. Yes, LFR increases the amount of time spent by developers on raid instances - how is that anything other than a good thing for EVERYONE that visits those raid zones?

Well said, but a waste of your time. On the bright side, its kinda entertaining to see how mad some of these guys get over LFR, especially now that it gives tier again.

[Deleted]

So everyone has to be a Progress Raider and no one is allowed to be Casual anymore.

I really hate Elitist Jerks.

It's the other way around, the casuals are actually the players that progress through normal > Hc and onwards. Raiding is about progress..

[Cassidin]

As long as LFR isn't a substitude for raiding, it's fine. The biggest problem was in Mists, where doing LFR gave you the whole raiding content, complete with trinkets and gear, making new players feel like they completed the game. In WoD the problem became smaller, and in Legion it seems to be going to be just another piece of content a player can do outside of real raiding. World Quests, Mythinc Dungeons, Order Hall Sets, Crafting - so many things push LFR out of the progression.

I never heard any player, new or old, express that they had "completed the game" because they had done LFR. In fact, almost NOONE completes the game - even people with Mythic Arch on farm - there are things in the game they havent done still - so they havent "completed" the game. It may be that people completed "all the game they wanted to" - but what's wrong with that?

This feeling that LFR people kill something on LFR and think "job done" refuse to apply the same idea to normal and heroic. Why? Surely a guild that only does normal or heroic is just as bad because thy haven't "completed" the raiding. So what? Why does this matter?

[Dartz1979]

Fatboss posted a video about LFR.



I strongly agree with them, yesterday I killed Archimonde with my 670 mage and it didn't feel like killing the last boss of the expansion.

LFR isn't mandatory anymore because Normal mode does everything LFR is supposed to do in a better way.

yeah but if you wanna do normal or higher you have to be in a good guild and or be geared properly LFR is there to teach and show people how to be ready for normal or higher if you want lfr removed then suggest blizzard stick in a tutorial of raids like how they did with the classes otherwise let us casuals keep our lfr and speka no more of lfr removal.

[Baconeggcheese]

Fatboss posted a video about LFR.

I strongly agree with them, yesterday I killed Archimonde with my 670 mage and it didn't feel like killing the last boss of the expansion.

LFR isn't mandatory anymore because Normal mode does everything LFR is supposed to do in a better way.

They make pretty much the same arguments people have been making forever now. Especially when the debate first heated up.

There's truth to it, but nothing new that people haven't heard before.

[Mad_Murdock]

Not a dream its a fact.

Blizzard has stated LFR justfies making raid content for Hardcore and Casual players alike. Remove LFR and you will kill raiding. Everything made in WoW is done on a budget and guess what.... Its 2016 and blizzard can't drop a mass amount of there budget on something 1% will see.
.

I'll disagree with that only in the context that you could cater to the 1-10%, as long as the 90% has something else to do. Mythic++, world bosses, world quest, Ping pong and Hopscotch as long as there is something fun to do, that gives some decent rewards, I could see raiding being as niche as Fishing, or Proving grounds or Brawlers' guild.

I personally think that the more outside of raiding things they offer, the more that will kill off raiding.

[Oxidizer]

Not only LFR needs to be removed but raiding difficulty overall needs to be set to only one.
No normal , flexible , Mythic. One difficulty for everyone
Most important DO NOT release raiding content in alpha/beta "testing" let guilds learn and actually race in world ranks without anyone having an edge giving equal shot to everyone that enjoy raiding.

My 2 cents

[Trapped]

Help me understand this. Why do people who dont do lfr, want it removed? You don't do it because it's not for you, so why does it bother you, how exactly is it affecting you? I dont raid mythic, in fact only about 1% of the playerbase does, so why not remove that useless waste of resources that nobody gives a crap about?

Lfr still exists because it gives casual players the oportunity to experience raids to some degree. I don't do lfr ever, i give 0 shits about it, so why the f would i want it removed? There's literally no reason for me to want it gone because it doesnt affect me in any way, shape, or form.

I'm so tired of all these self entitled elitist wanting something that doesn't affect them gone just because they dont like it. Find something better to do with your spare time you sad, pathetic nerds.

Its not that LFR affects me on a personal level, but LFR affects the game as a whole. It affects what kinds of players you'll be grouping with in other matchmade activities and affects the recruitment pool of players that are potentially looking to move up into harder stuff. LFR, like the video states, does absolutely nothing to show new players what "real raiding" is. You don't have to communicate, you don't have to know your class and most of the time you just have to literally show up and collect your rewards.

All you did was comment on the premise of the thread title, not about the video. Watch the actual video and then post again. LFR is toxic to the game.

Raiding is the end game of the PvE part of the game. If you can't make a set raid time on a weekly basis to run with a guild, then I guess you won't be raiding.

I'd also like to add that the game was BOOMING during TBC and WotLK.. and you know what? People weren't complaining about not being able to make time to raid, or "boo hoo its too hard to tab out and research my character for 15 minutes". Take away all this easy mode shit, and I guarantee people will make time to raid if they truly wanted to. LFR breeds bad players. There, I said it. You think Blizz would lose subs if they removed LFR? How many people do you think already quit because they're tired of playing with all of the LFR retards?

[Propainn]

So everyone has to be a Progress Raider and no one is allowed to be Casual anymore.

I really hate Elitist Jerks.

I thought the hyperbolic time chamber was meant to train people in fighting, not just make them spout out useless hyperboles.

I really hate people who make tons of excuses for themselves. "...sit in Stormwind og Orgrimmar and type LFR for 4 hours, and keep getting kicked because the raid requires iLevel 700 but raid leader wants you to have iLeveel 850 so you can carry him or her." Hey look, more hyperboles because your side can't seem to formulate a coherent argument. Would you look at that...

The point is, progressing through the game is perfectly doable. Claiming otherwise as a defense for keeping LFR is just flat out wrong.

P.S. This is an RPG. Character progression is part of the game. Don't like it? Don't do it. There's your favorite motto.

[Cassidin]

There might be more people who enjoy the absence of it than there are people who enjoy the existance of it, honestly we don't know.

What we know is that it is used, we don't really know if the people who use it really do enjoy it or how much they really want it to remain instead of better options. We just know an X ammount of people do that content, not that they enjoy it.

True, I can't argue with that point. I will say however that one of the main drawing points is that people can just hop on a queue whenever they want without having to plan first - that is appealing. Currently I only do LFR, I did normal and heroic (Flex and Normal) on multiple characters in MOP, but havent felt like working that hard this expansion. I have no-one to worry about letting down if I just dont feel like it. I don't have to meet someone's idea of minimum gear level to join etc. There are many things like that in LFR that makes it a choice for many people.

[Jtbrig7390]

I'll disagree with that only in the context that you could cater to the 1-10%, as long as the 90% has something else to do. Mythic++, world bosses, world quest, Ping pong and Hopscotch as long as there is something fun to do, that gives some decent rewards, I could see raiding being as niche as Fishing, or Proving grounds or Brawlers' guild.

I personally think that the more outside of raiding things they offer, the more that will kill off raiding.

The only way I would be ok with raiding being 100% niche (Aka no LFR) is if the story didn't end in LFR and the gear outside it that dropped was on par with NM (at lease) raiding.

There should be many progression paths but for me as long as raiding holds the best gear and the end story its where ill be going.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Mad_Murdock he's knowingly taking a blue post out of context to make his argument. He's been doing it in every one of these LFR threads forever now, don't mind him. There's no growth to be had in that discussion.

[Sithalos]

Hardcore raiders think LFR shouldn't excist. In other news, Is water wet? More at 6.

EDIT: I thought there was already a "LFR" thread going on? Why does this need a new one because some hardcore raiders made a video?

Yup. People that are good at the game hate LFR, what a shock, right?

[Trapped]

Not only LFR needs to be removed but raiding difficulty overall needs to be set to only one.
No normal , flexible , Mythic. One difficulty for everyone

100% agree with this. Raiding should have one mode = Raid mode. If you can't hack it, then you're not a raider.

[Deleted]

Not a dream its a fact.

Blizzard has stated LFR justfies making raid content for Hardcore and Casual players alike. Remove LFR and you will kill raiding. Everything made in WoW is done on a budget and guess what.... Its 2016 and blizzard can't drop a mass amount of there budget on something 1% will see.

They need to keep people playing when they reach level 100 and LFR does this.

They never said it justifies ALL the content, Blizz said it justifies MORE content. They could get rid of LFR raiding wouldn't disappear. So it's still a dream from LFR heroes.

And btw, after that interview they removed the tier from LFR.

[hachidori]

LFR is one of the many Pitfalls of Convenience. It would be impossible to get rid of now because casual players, who have never put effort into the game and don't want to, would complain. These players make up a majority of the playerbase because this is the state Blizzard has been working so tirelessly to achieve.

It's the exact same story as flying mounts. The many downsides of flying include: completely ignoring the game world, complete lack of risk or danger, never having to interact with players, never having to spend time physically getting anywhere (310% movement speed or whatever the ridiculous cap is,) enormous dragon asses obscuring every mailbox and vendor, the death of like 90% of the mounts already in the game since they don't fly, flight paths being rendered virtually worthless, contributing to inflation by making the necessary gold sink for 'new flying' a little larger every expansion and in general trivializing just about everything that has to exclusively remain on the ground. The benefits include "it gets me places faster."

Flying is a terrible addition to the game that shouldn't exist anymore and causes more harm than good... but casuals want it. Same story with LFR.

[Cassidin]

"You're completely new to wow... You've done a few mythic dungeons maybe and you decide you are going to do your first ever raid! You're super pumped, your're super excited and you think think "fuck it i'm gonna sign for LFR i've heard that shits the bomb". You sign up, the queue pops, you hit the button and bam you're in.

So you're in there. Half the raid is mysteriously standing still [...] You say in chat "oh man i'm so happy to be in my first raid, this is such a cool experience. Thanks for having me guys". No one responds. [...] So you finally get to the last boss. Someone ninja pulls and shit, you've wiped. The tank is AFK, everyone is blaming the tank. Its the first time anyone has said anything in chat [...]. You finally get to pull the boss, and you kill it because you have determination stacks. Congratulations you just won the game. You just killed the last boss!"

They are of course taking the piss a bit here, but the core point is to a new player...

Translation: They are rolling out the hyperbole there! First off, someone doing mythic dungeons will not be so clueless as to not know there are several difficulties, or that LFR is easy mode - much easier than the dungeons they are currently running. Secondly if they are doing mythic dungeons they are already joining groups via the group finder or via guild. They will have already had some contact with people who raid..... I wont even begin to go through the rest of that quite - its just lame.

[Deleted]

I know right?!? Removing something that people enjoy. How dare they!

People do no enyoj it. Players do LFR becouse it is easy source of gear no becouse it is fun.

[Propainn]

100% agree with this. Raiding should have one mode = Raid mode. If you can't hack it, then you're not a raider.

That was a terrible design philosophy that only netted them 10mil+ subscribers against the -5mil+ subscribers that the current system has los- oh wait....nvm.

[Deleted]

100% agree with this. Raiding should have one mode = Raid mode. If you can't hack it, then you're not a raider.

And yet non-raiders are contributing to have your content created for you but are denied access to it. Precisely the reason why LFR was needed in the first place.

My response will always be if you don't like it, don't do it. I've not yet seen a decent reason why a percentage of the player base should be denied access to content which is essentially what is being asked for every time someone asks for LFR to be removed.

People do no enyoj it. Players do LFR becouse it is easy source of gear no becouse it is fun.

Not entirely true. I do LFR because I don't have time to invest in getting into a guild raid (I used to but not anymore), and I despair at the often toxic social interaction required from LFG. I just want to jump into a raid, play my part and see the content, maybe get some nice shinies along the way. I have no misconception that LFR is epic raiding but if I didn't I wouldn't see the stuff I in part paid for.