Remove LFR : FatBoss point of view

[Cassidin]

I didnt know normal mode allowed me to queue for it, nor that it was pre cut into small chunks to allow those without long strings of time to access it with minimal inconvenience.

Where can I find this exciting new Normal mode?

Send me an IM if you find it - I would love to queue for it.

[Propainn]

And yet non-raiders are contributing to have your content created for you but are denied access to it. Precisely the reason why LFR was needed in the first place.

My response will always be if you don't like it, don't do it. I've not yet seen a decent reason why a percentage of the player base should be denied access to content which is essentially what is being asked for every time someone asks for LFR to be removed.

The only thing denying you access to non LFR raid content is yourself.

[Trapped]

I don't play anything above Normal and don't enjoy that content.
Therefor it should be removed from the game!

No, just kidding.
As an educated human being I understand that other people like different stuff and they can have their cookie.
It doesn't bother me at all if there are things in this world that aren't for me.

Exaggerate much? You like 4 difficulties of the same raid? You think LFR teaches new players about their class or what real raiding could/should be? I'm a normal/heroic player, only because I don't like 20-man roster sizes. I don't give a shit if people kill the same bosses I do or have the same gear. However, as a Guild Leader, it sure would be nice to have better players to pick from when it comes time to recruit. People don't want to work anymore to get into raiding, and they used to. Theorycrafting and min/maxing your character was part of the fun of raiding and talking to people about your class, abilities, and working as a team! Now people press a button, join a "raid" and think the game is over.

How can people seriously think that LFR is good for the game? Smh.

[Deleted]

Maybe I should start lobbying for the removal of Mythic raid difficulties...

No need to spend resources for special testing during beta.
No need to spend time on designing and coding special encounter mechanics.
More mounts to spread out as rewards for other activities.
More graphics designer resources for items for other activities.
Players need not waste energy on making discussion threads and videos, lobbying for the removal of LFR.
Only affects a minority of the players, who can just go do normal or heroic mode instead.

What is not to like?

/s

[Deleted]

System is fine as it is, don't see why you want to take away a difficulty and then nerf normal, taking away options isn't good.

As long as LFR is obsolete for normal raiders it should stay, there are plenty of people in LFR that don't want to learn how to raid the proper difficulties and just want to see the story or just cant get good at the game for whatever reason why should these people be forced to quit or join normal modes to get shit on by the people know how to raid and wont have the patience for these types of people.

[Kazgrel]

People do no enyoj it. Players do LFR becouse it is easy source of gear no becouse it is fun.

Baleful gear from Tanaan is easier AND better. Before I quit playing, I had 4 alts in full 695 baleful stuff, so they never once had to set foot in LFR.

LFR isn't fun because the only incentive for running any of it is the legendary ring.

[Jtbrig7390]

@Mad_Murdock he's knowingly taking a blue post out of context to make his argument. He's been doing it in every one of these LFR threads forever now, don't mind him. There's no growth to be had in that discussion.

Please do tell how the statment "Justfies Raid Content" is being taken out of context in my post.

[Erwarth]

People do no enyoj it. Players do LFR becouse it is easy source of gear no becouse it is fun.

Ashran is easier and faster.

Six hours for 700 ilevel.

[Cassidin]

LFR should be removed because it is a lonely, antisocial experience in a game that is all about group-play and team-work. Consider the many, many people who have quit raiding at the top end over the course of the expansion. Normally you'd have new people starting with the game and some of them eventually getting into raiding, filling those empty seats. This has barely happened lately, because the experience for new players is awful and LFR has a big part in that.

Incorrect: before LFR only a VERY small percentage of players raided at all. You still didnt easily get new "good enough" players before LFR because the players didnt exist.

[Draenox]

I wont be raiding in Legion and to me LFR is a way to experience the content Blizzard has made. It has absolutely zero to do with a feeling of accomplishment, I just want to experience the story progressing. Removing LFR would make that a lot more tedious.

[Jtbrig7390]

They never said it justifies ALL the content, Blizz said it justifies MORE content. They could get rid of LFR raiding wouldn't disappear. So it's still a dream from LFR heroes.

And btw, after that interview they removed the tier from LFR.

No what they said was "Justfies Raid Content"

https://www.engadget.com/2012/08/23/...g-progression/

The existence of LFR justifies the creation of more raid content for casual and hardcore players alike.

And Btw, Tier returns to LFR in legion. Its almost like blizzard learned to not cut off the arm to save the hand.

[Trapped]

And yet non-raiders are contributing to have your content created for you but are denied access to it. Precisely the reason why LFR was needed in the first place.

My response will always be if you don't like it, don't do it. I've not yet seen a decent reason why a percentage of the player base should be denied access to content which is essentially what is being asked for every time someone asks for LFR to be removed.

You said it yourself. Non-raiders. If you're not a "raider" then why do you need LFR to stay subbed? I guarantee that the LFR-only players would NOT unsub if LFR was removed (as long as there was other stuff to do in the world, like Legion has planned).

It's Blizzard's dumb philosophy that people non-raiders need to raid. Not everyone is a raider, and I know WoD is a bad example, but there's enough stuff out there for non-raiders to do.

[Deleted]

The only thing denying you access to non LFR raid content is yourself.

True. I could give up my life and other commitments just so I could be in the worlds top raid team. But I choose not to.

What suits my lifestyle is LFR and so I want this feature to stay. Where is the problem with that? Must I change my life to suit your expectations? Is that how your life works? Do you change it to meet other peoples expectations? If so, do you really think it is me that has a problem?

[Baconeggcheese]

Please do tell how the statment "Justfies Raid Content" is being taken out of context in my post.

The same way as every other time this conversation has been had, I've really no interest in it. I full well know how this conversation goes and that nothing will come of it.

Just warning the innocent bystander what he's getting himself into.

[Jtbrig7390]

People do no enyoj it. Players do LFR becouse it is easy source of gear no becouse it is fun.

I enjoy doing LFR and find it fun. So I guess that kinda proves your "No one does it for fun" wrong.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Guys, this discussion needs some arbitration because right now it looks like a civil war.
Listen to me for a moment and you'll understand why LFR does indeed need to be and should be removed.

First of all, we are all humans playing a video game. I am not a hardcore raider or an LFR raider. I'm a person who is paying to play this video game with other humans.

A very significant portion of this game's purpose and enjoyment is social interactions, big or small. I personally have made friendships in this game that are even stronger than any friendships I have in real life. I've been raiding with 10+ people for 8 years now and another 5+ for 6 years. Over this time, we have developed incredibly strong ties to each other.
Do you know why?
Not because we have a lot in common, not because we are all super agreeable.
Its because we were plunged together into a guild that was completing content regularly on a set schedule attempting to improve every time we got together (IE Progression.)

Doing so, we learned three important things about each other.
1. Who was and wasn't reliable. We need to be online at a specific time, we need to be mentally and physically prepared for multiple hours of play a night, and we needed to sometimes do things we didn't enjoy to help each other succeed.
2. We learned who cared about the group and who only cared about themselves. We only raid two nights a week, so there shouldn't be much drama on that schedule, but we would see people who get upset about loot, refuse to take direction, and continually battle leadership on small points.
3. A lot of us grew up together. When I started this guild I was 19 years old. Some of the raiders were 15~. Now I am 27. We all went through a lot in our lives - children born, divorces, deaths, even worse. But because we spent so much time together there was always 1 constant for us to look forward too no matter what the real life threw our way.

What's this have to do with LFR? Tell me, has a group like this EVER formed out of LFR? Ever, even once? I honestly would be extremely surprised, because LFR does not foster these social interactions, and it certainly doesn't emulate raiding. On top of these social situations, progression raiding even for the hyper casual consists of these things.

1. Improving from your mistakes. Every time you wipe, you should learn something. Some groups this takes longer than others, but it does happen. In LFR this never happens because Blizzard makes you improve. You can pull the boss 10 times, wipe 9 and never learn a thing. This DOES happen too, as we get raiders apply and when we ask them if they now the fights they say "I've done it on LFR" but fail the first mechanic.
2. Learn about your class and how you can play it to a better percentile. There is no competition in LFR, because so many are just there to get in and out. There is never any challenge to overcome, so no one learns to play their class properly. In progression, you must improve outside of gear. Some times you have to switch talents or even specs to maximize your performance. And any one who has raided knows how important being Sub compared to Combat is on certain fights.
3. Proper raid etiquette. Show up on time, be at the raid ready to go, have potions for pre-potting and food for yumyum time. Tell people when you are going AFK. Don't demand gear, especially for your offspec. Be attentive for the entirety of the raid or don't join it. In LFR you can just come and go as your please, because it doesn't even matter to anyone. No one spent time putting this group together, and there is no penalty if you leave. There is also no penalty for intentionally trolling the group or under-performing on purpose. All things that foster bad raid etiquette and contribute to the lack of social identity the game has now.

So TLDR?
LFR contains no strong social elements and almost no progression raid elements. These are fundamental to raiding in WoW and have been persistent from Classic to WoD.

In short, everyone should WANT to play this game and meet friends. Its an MMOrpg. You should WANT to complete all the content, and do your best along the way.
And we are all human beings. No one has any more of an advantage than any other player. I lead a guild that raids 8 hours a week and we still clear full mythics most of the tiers.
It doesn't take 40 hours a week, and it can be done with anyone, even people with full time jobs and families. I would know.
Raiding is something more than just playing a video game. Its creating incredibly strong social atmospheres and learning about central leadership, learning from mistakes, and understanding a group dynamic - all things that can be applied to any business in the real world.

Compared to even normal, LFR is like going to preschool. You couldn't fail if you wanted, and you are more being babysat than learning anything.
It was added because at the time the ONLY option was progression raiding. Raids required a lot of time before LFR.
But now there is Normal. All they need to do is make it a little bit easier, and that's that. LFR has no purpose.

To anyone who has read this all and is going to post that I'm an elitist or a comment like "Don't like it, don't do it," I urge you to take a breath. I am no different than you. I have a great deal of commitments IRL, so if anything, I would be thankful for something like LFR if it actually worked. But its just not how the game was meant to be played. ANYONE can do Normal, and once you start, you realize that anyone can do Mythic too. The only reason you think you can't is because you have never tried.

And to anyone who feels like they can't because they aren't able to find the right social fit, PM me. I'll see if there is a way we can play together in Legion and hopefully enrich your WoW life along the way.
I just want this game to be respected again. Removing LFR would do so much good in that respect, as it would funnel thousands of players into real difficulty, real social atmosphere, and real challenge.

[Jtbrig7390]

The same way as every other time this conversation has been had, I've really no interest in it. I full well know how this conversation goes and that nothing will come of it.

Just warning the innocent bystander what he's getting himself into.

So you can't prove that I took anything out of context though so.

[Cassidin]

Bullshit, I've done normal/hc pugs and Mythic dungeons at the lower end of the gear-spectrum (slightly below the first drops) with no problem. You wanna know my secret? finding people more reasonable on my servergroup so taking me without all the achievements. Talking to people. Making a group of your own going "alt-friendly group, just be enchanted and know what you're doing", and we had no problems.

Fixed that for you

[Deleted]

You said it yourself. Non-raiders. If you're not a "raider" then why do you need LFR to stay subbed? I guarantee that the LFR-only players would NOT unsub if LFR was removed (as long as there was other stuff to do in the world, like Legion has planned).

It's Blizzard's dumb philosophy that people non-raiders need to raid. Not everyone is a raider, and I know WoD is a bad example, but there's enough stuff out there for non-raiders to do.

LFR gives me access to content that I paid to have created. Are you saying I don't deserve to see it because I am not a true raider? It's an oldie but I'm glad to see it relevant again, please refer to my very old sig.

[Jtbrig7390]

Guys, this discussion needs some arbitration because right now it looks like a civil war.
Listen to me for a moment and you'll understand why LFR does indeed need to be and should be removed.

No......

Next....