Remove LFR : FatBoss point of view

[Glorious Leader]

@Mad_Murdock he's knowingly taking a blue post out of context to make his argument. He's been doing it in every one of these LFR threads forever now, don't mind him. There's no growth to be had in that discussion.

It's not out of context though. You have to be wilfully deluding yourself to read the blue post on lfr and think it means anything other then LFR JUSTIFIES RAID CONTENT. Esepecially to the extent we've seen it now.

[Alydael]

Yaaaa...no. It's because it's a terrible way to introduce new players to raiding and those players often essentially do not raid beyond LFR and as a result there are less players overall joining proper raiding guilds.



This argument comes up so frequently, absolutely ridiculous. You really honestly think over half the player base is gonna quit because LFR (which is a completely horrible joke of an experience) is removed and replaced with with Normal mode as a proper entry level raid?

Absolutely not, the sort of players that are stuck on LFR don't stick around long anyways. It's a terrible system that provides players with no real experience applicable to a real raiding environment, and that is the issue. If the system were better at preparing people for raiding there would as a result, be more people raiding.

There is no real metric to determine how many people would stay or leave if any single feature were removed, so it is all just a guess. If you look at the numbers though, many more people run and complete LFR than Heroic and mythic combined. It is not "ridiculous" to suppose that if there was no LFR that some of those people would quit. I am not saying they would rage quit, I am just saying that there would be less for them to do. The less there is to do, the less likely the player will stay engaged (and subbed).

Also, why do you feel that LFR players don't stick around long anyway? I would think it was the opposite. I would think LFR players would stay around longer because they are more likely to be consuming the game at a casual pace and are less likely to run through all the content quickly and get burned out. In my experience it is the more hardcore players that run through everything quickly then get burned out and have nothing to do, so they unsub until next patch; rinse/ repeat.

In fact, in my guild, most of the hardcore players are on break until Legion pre patch (and have been on break for a while now). When I log in, it is mostly the casual players still subbed and playing.

[Deleted]

I enjoy doing LFR and find it fun. So I guess that kinda proves your "No one does it for fun" wrong.

I am pretty sure that you dont do it for fun,. Actuly i am pretty sure you are not eve subbed to wow right now becouse you have so much fun doing lfr right?

[Malderon]

Lfr drops gear that is lower ilvl then 5 man and world content, so thats not accurate.

And here you are very very wrong

[Deleted]

No what they said was "Justfies Raid Content"

https://www.engadget.com/2012/08/23/...g-progression/


And Btw, Tier returns to LFR in legion. Its almost like blizzard learned to not cut off the arm to save the hand.

You just quoted the "more" I highlighted and you are still denying it. It's a dream period.

[Cassidin]

You know the statement "Without LFR people would do Normal" is so hilarious and false I dont even want to start....

You know it.

Agreed. It is a little like saying "Without affordable cars, people would buy expensive ones they cant buy!"

[Propainn]

True. I could give up my life and other commitments just so I could be in the worlds top raid team. But I choose not to.

What suits my lifestyle is LFR and so I want this feature to stay. Where is the problem with that? Must I change my life to suit your expectations? Is that how your life works? Do you change it to meet other peoples expectations? If so, do you really think it is me that has a problem?

Hey look, more hyperboles. You don't have to change a thing. You also don't need to dedicate any remotely sizable chunk of time to do normal or heroics, and even mythics. You are just lying to yourself, making excuses to justify your decision. In that sense, I do think you are the one who has a problem, absolutely.

[Jtbrig7390]

I am pretty sure that you dont do it for fun,. Actuly i am pretty sure you are not eve subbed to wow right now becouse you have so much fun doing lfr right?

Would u like to add me and see that I am logged into WoW right now? I'm about to finish soloing cata heroics. Also if you check my warlock in my sig you will see I cleared LFR on him yesterday.

[Cassidin]

I agree with this. MoP LFR had a perfect balance of difficulty and rewards. WoD LFR is one of the worst things to ever be in the game, just a borefest with horrible gear drops. With the return of tier sets to LFR in Legion, it looks like we might go back to the MoP version.

Got to say I was pretty amazed to see that when HFC came out there were common drops (or ways to quickly farm) higher level gear from the new zone that came with HFC. That's never been the case before. I only did LFR this expansion but for LFR I only even ever used bonus rolls on bosses that dropped set gear.

[Trapped]

I wont be raiding in Legion and to me LFR is a way to experience the content Blizzard has made. It has absolutely zero to do with a feeling of accomplishment, I just want to experience the story progressing. Removing LFR would make that a lot more tedious.

If LFR didn't exist, wouldn't that give you more incentive to get "good" at the game? Raiding is supposed to be a challenge, and should require SOME effort or skill, or teamwork.

You use the word tedious in describing something that takes a little effort to achieve. Perfect example of why LFR should be removed. Entitlement and laziness. You don't want to make any effort to see the big baddies of the expansion in a real raid setting because LFR puts it there for you on a silver platter.

[Jtbrig7390]

You just quoted the "more" I highlighted and you are still denying it. It's a dream period.

No where does he say more.

He outright says "Justfies Raid Content" there is nothing to miss there. To believe anything different is you denying reality

[tearsofflame]

I enjoy it. I say this as a Heroic raider as well. People have to understand that some people work alot on thier jobs and when they come home, they still want to play an enjoy content like everyone else. And you need to work to pay for subscription correct? Not everyone has time to be all pro and super serious about the game. They should not remove this. This option is optional. You don't like it? Then just don't use it. And don't say that excuse that people fail when they get into normals or heroics. There's people that fail everywhere who have done raiding so thats no excuse. You can't escape bads no matter what level. Only way to escape bads is have a guild and raiding schedule. So if you have a baddie in pvp, should you just remove the pvp system? No. Similair to if you have a baddie in lfr, this doesn't mean remove the lfr system.

[Paxz19]

Maybe if drops took a nerf in lfr a good separation would be applied since LFR doesn't actually hurt anyone that doesn't want to utilize the feature. Titanforged LFR will have 0 impact on mythic raiders because mythic raiders can do much more with a 880 ilvl than an lfr raider who has farmed every week and gets lucky in drops.

[Palmtree]

Lei Shen in Throne of Thunder was always good for 4-7 wipes

Archy LFR was good for wipes with 10 stacks the weeks after it came out.
It was nerfed a lot in both lfr and normal soon after it came out to cater the public.

[TheWindWalker]

And here you are very very wrong

In Legion, perhaps, but in WoD it was the lowest 6.2 gearing option available. To get to the highest ilvl without being in a Heroic+ raid you had to either do Tanaan and get decked out in 695s or do PVP until you got 700 and 710 gear. 6.2's LFR was an afterthought that is only "mandatory" if you can't find a normal raid that will take you for your legendary drops.

[Jtbrig7390]

Maybe if drops took a nerf in lfr a good separation would be applied since LFR doesn't actually hurt anyone that doesn't want to utilize the feature. Titanforged LFR will have 0 impact on mythic raiders because mythic raiders can do much more with a 880 ilvl than an lfr raider who has farmed every week and gets lucky in drops.

That got tried in WOD and failed. Now come Legion its back to the MOP reward model and I am happy.

[Deleted]

Hey look, more hyperboles. You don't have to change a thing. You also don't need to dedicate any remotely sizable chunk of time to do normal or heroics, and even mythics. You are just lying to yourself, making excuses to justify your decision. In that sense, I do think you are the one who has a problem, absolutely.

No, you are lying to yourself and anyone who reads your post. We are talking about my experience here. Of the two of us, I believe I am the most appropriate to comment on what is or is not.

Your reference to; "You also don't need to dedicate any remotely sizable chunk of time to do normal or heroics, and even mythics."; laughably suggests you don't even have a clue what you are talking about.

I'm happy with LFR and will continue to use it. I'm not experiencing a problem with it. If we're still discussing this after this post then it is clear you do have a problem with it, and with me enjoying what I enjoy.

[hachidori]

And yet non-raiders are contributing to have your content created for you but are denied access to it. Precisely the reason why LFR was needed in the first place.

I don't understand why people think the only thing that matters in this game is raiding. Yes, I'm "contributing" to raiding; that doesn't mean I have to ever see it. The only raiding I've done since Burning Crusade is Garrosh and Moose carries, which I paid for purely because my pockets were getting too saturated with money. I prefer to do other things like PvP or play with the Auction House.

More importantly, however, is people don't realize part of the raiding experience is clawing your way up to get into raiding. Yes, it's true; getting the gear to step into the first tier raid is supposed to be part of the experience. To go back to Burning Crusade, the expansion felt saturated in content because the time it took to accomplish things was very long. You started out with questing greens, and then did normal dungeons to get blues. Then you went to heroic dungeons to get even better blues, maybe even a cheap epic. Then you did some minor raids, like Gruul's or Magtheridon, to try and get more gear. Then you did Karazhan or Zul'Gurub. So on and so forth. You did all of these things several times, as many as ten times each, because you weren't guaranteed a little participation box with gear in it just for showing up.

Is this boring? Yes, in my opinion. Is it the fundamental format raiding should follow? Yes, absolutely. The entire appeal of raiding is a sense of progression, to be one of the privileged few to get to confront and possibly defeat a big built-up important lore character. When you let people queue into the final boss' realm with bad gear, go AFK and see him defeat then you have completely trivialized the experience. Nobody cares anymore because there's no prestige or sense of progress.

[RoKPaNda]

Guys, this discussion needs some arbitration because right now it looks like a civil war.
Listen to me for a moment and you'll understand why LFR does indeed need to be and should be removed.
-Huge Wall of Text-

No. Absolutely not. You're caught up in the old way of MMOs, the entire genre has changed in the last decade. MMOs prior to WoW were a very very niche activity for the amazingly hardcore gamer nerd. Now they're not anymore.

Saying that we need to remove LFR because of how the game used to be a more social game is like saying we need resists/weapon skills/experience loss on death/other shit that MMOs used to have because that's the way it used to be. Sorry but automation in group finding and such is just the way that MMOs are now, and the way that MMOs need to be if Blizzard wants to keep their casual audience. I've said it, casuals have said it, Blizzard themselves have said it, the people who LFR is for have never and will never actually raid. Removing LFR won't make players more social, it won't make them want to raid, it will make them quit. Plain and simple.

If you REALLY want to get rid of LFR and make "Normal" the casual mode, you're going to need to put the requirements for it in the hands of the game, not the players, and make queuing/joining/etc automated like LFR, or else there will be no endgame within reach for casual gamers.

If LFR didn't exist, wouldn't that give you more incentive to get "good" at the game?

No, actually. Blizzard themselves have stated that the players who run LFR are players who never have raided, and that players would not rise to meet the challenge, they'd just quit. The last thing this game needs is more players quitting. Heh.

[Propainn]

No, you are lying to yourself and anyone who reads your post. We are talking about my experience here. Of the two of us, I believe I am the most appropriate to comment on what is or is not.

Your reference to; "You also don't need to dedicate any remotely sizable chunk of time to do normal or heroics, and even mythics."; laughably suggests you don't even have a clue what you are talking about.

I'm happy with LFR and will continue to use it. I'm not experiencing a problem with it. If we're still discussing this after this post then it is clear you do have a problem with it, and with me enjoying what I enjoy.

I have a problem with people who create a subjective safe space for themselves and ignore the objective reality around them. If you think 4-9 hrs over the course of a week is a sizable chunk of time, than MMORPGs are not for you, I'm sorry. You will call me elitist, or whatever other endearing term you come up with, but that's the truth.

Enjoy what you enjoy, but don't lie to yourself and others in the manner that you currently are.