EU Army on way? EU cannot rely on NATO and needs new defence policy...

[Tijuana]

Because I was laughing AT you?

Meh, close enough. I said something funny and you laughed.

- - - Updated - - -

Imperialism was often the result, not the target.

Now that is funny.

- - - Updated - - -

We may have been the first but a certain country learned a lot from us.

About which one? Dealing drugs, exploitation, or subjugation? If we dealt half the drugs we do in America, we would be the richest nation on the planet. Wait a minute...

[tylenol]

You are one of the most capitalist nations on the planet, it is arguably what the US is most famous for, that love of capitalism you got from us. That superiority complex, again that came from us.

Barring the Civil Rights movement, which we never really had because our existing laws unintentionally gave minorities rights, American history has parallels in British history, though you had a Civil War over slavery, we fought that in the courts and Parliament.

As I said, that is understandable as American thought came from a British background, more prosaically a large part is due to us sharing a common language which enabled you to fully understand developments in Britain.

I mean the Brits (Spanish/Dutch etc) started slavery over here, I often see the US getting blamed for starting it but really it was just a continuation because it's what was done elsewhere back then, how could a bunch of Europeans coming over here when slavery/slave trade was legal and just stop slavery?, John Casor was made a slave in 1655, the first person of African descent in England's thirteen colonies to be declared as a slave for life, Americans weren't making the rules back then...

The Civil War seemed like one that didn't have to happen but then again if people didn't come to the New World back in the day, who knows what the place would be like today

[Skroe]

Won't happen. Would need to replace the Lisbon treaty. Furthermore Germany, Romania and Poland would veto it.

Nice try, Ulmita.

[Beloren]

I would not at all oppose a major european army that disengages from certain NATO members (like Turkey)

I heard Turkey is being fast tracked to join the EU

[Kalis]

Now that is funny.

There is a well known (probably untrue) story of a British commander capturing Sind, even though he was told not to and informing his senior officers with the message "Peccavi", which means "I have sinned".

India was not really supposed to be part of an Empire, we went there for trade and it kind of happened. You know how it is, one day you are buying tea, the next day you own all the plantations. What can you do?

[Skroe]

I guess this is sarcasm? Everyone knows they are never going to join.

One day Europe will come around to seeing how utterly insane not letting Turkey join truly is.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and don't worry.

The US is on the case with the whole Brexit thing:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...s-brexit-video

[Faroth]

What is that supposed to mean?

A lot of Americans typically make jabs at France having to be helped, particularly of America coming to help France, in history. So of all the countries out there, the one that gets poked at is the one that actually contributed most to America being founded. That's all I meant.

[Skroe]

How could the EU invite a state that refuses to recognize one of it's members exist?

The magic of torturous diplomacy.

[Skroe]

With a state that is willing to make no concessions since any concession would jeopardize that nationalist fervor that is keeping its government in power? Yeah, not likely to happen in the immediate future.

Who said anything about the immediate future?

Erdogan won't be around forever, and even the AKP has been internally divided on his policies. The EU would be wise to start preparing for that world.

[Kalis]

One day Europe will come around to seeing how utterly insane not letting Turkey join truly is.

Doubtful, Turkey and Europe (with the possible exception of Germany) are way too different culturally, even though Turkey is the most Western of the major Middle Eastern nations.

The UK had fractious relation with the EU and we have far more in common with the other nations than Turkey does. Them joining, especially with Erdogan in charge, would be an EU killer.

[Ulmita]

Who said anything about the immediate future?

Erdogan won't be around forever, and even the AKP has been internally divided on his policies. The EU would be wise to start preparing for that world.

There is no way Turkey is getting into EU as long as Greece and Cyprus are around, especially since they continuously pushing for a war. Day after day they are making threats, sending planes and ships (last ship was 40km away from Athens ....)

They need to change A LOT. I think in around 2000 years they will be ready.

[Crispin]

Won't happen. Would need to replace the Lisbon treaty. Furthermore Germany, Romania and Poland would veto it.

Nice try, Ulmita.

Honestly don't see Denmark joining it either, we voted no to Europol, Euroarmy (or whatever the fuck they'd call it) would be a clear no.

[Skroe]

There is no way Turkey is getting into EU as long as Greece and Cyprus are around, especially since they continuously pushing for a war. Day after day they are making threats, sending planes and ships (last ship was 40km away from Athens ....)

They need to change A LOT. I think in around 2000 years they will be ready.

Ah yes, the Greek/Turkish/Cypriot cluster fuck. An annual top 3 finalist "World's Most Pointless National Rivalry Championship".

It's like two frogs fighting over a Lilly pad.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly don't see Denmark joining it either, we voted no to Europol, Euroarmy (or whatever the fuck they'd call it) would be a clear no.

AH yes of course Denmark! One of NATO's most vocal advocates in the past decade.

Yeah. It's cute people think that the UK was the only "no" to this idea in the EU.

Regardless though. Under the Lisbon Treaty, NATO has first look rights to all European security issues.

[Deleted]

What an imbecil.

Most EU countries are already in NATO, which is much more efficient than an army controlled by these moronic EU bureaucrats could ever be. Having two overlapping systems would be retarded.

Besides, I honestly wouldn't give any military power to the hands of the aforementioned worthless sacks of filth and human waste. At least NATO has USA balancing things a bit.

[Tijuana]

What an imbecil.

Most EU countries are already in NATO, which is much more efficient than an army controlled by these moronic EU bureaucrats could ever be. Having two overlapping systems would be retarded.

Besides, I honestly wouldn't give any military power to the hands of the aforementioned worthless sacks of filth and human waste. At least NATO has USA balancing things a bit.

Why would one multi-state army solution be so much more efficient than another multi-state army? Oh yeah, one has the US army in the mix. Yeah, its way cheaper to make an army made out of someone else's army, than to make your own new one.

[Skroe]

What an imbecil.

Most EU countries are already in NATO, which is much more efficient than an army controlled by these moronic EU bureaucrats could ever be. Having two overlapping systems would be retarded.

Besides, I honestly wouldn't give any military power to the hands of the aforementioned worthless sacks of filth. At least NATO has USA balancing things a bit.

Not to mention that NATO now exclusively includes the three most powerful military forces in Europe: the US, the UK and Turkey.

[nextormento]

One day Europe will come around to seeing how utterly insane not letting Turkey join truly is.

Just today they opened chapter 33 (finances and budget), which was unfrozen back in March.
Despite the European opinion on current Turkey, the negotiations are open. Turkey just seems to meet criteria at a *very* slow pace.

[Deleted]

While an EU army is probably one step too far, she's right about one thing: Europe can't keep relying on American military might in case of trouble, the individual nations with means need to bite the bitter apple and reinforce our commitment to safekeeping our sovereignty.

[judgementofantonidas]

Interesting. What do you guys think? I personally have been calling for this for a long time now. We do need to differentiate from NATO, we need to pursue our own goals and strategy when it comes to security. Most importantly though, a unified army is a good step towards a super state, a federalized EU.

Britain was the only country that was opposing this and was threatening to veto. But now with the Brits outside the picture a way is paved for the creation of one.

ok. so which country proposes to have overall control of the army? Germany? Isn't that kind of why you aren't allowed one in the first place?

[Ulmita]

ok. so which country proposes to have overall control of the army? Germany? Isn't that kind of why you aren't allowed one in the first place?

Brussels ofc (aka our ministers in EU)