[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[bio347]

Per wowhead's tooltip, Sac is 20+haste RPPM. So assuming 30 in your math will be a bit high. That's 50% haste.

http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=196099/demonic-power

[Dastey]

Per wowhead's tooltip, Sac is 20+haste RPPM. So assuming 30 in your math will be a bit high. That's 50% haste.

http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=196099/demonic-power

Ye ok I had bloodlust for 40 seconds during these tries, so that is obviously a lot of extra proccs.
Assuming 25 per minute over an encounter that would make is 3750% spell power
Making it 1133 % of Spell power per minute less than Service, which would then be in the area of 11-11.5k dps at 70k spell power

[wooters]

I don't know about Lord of Flames itself, though it seems like a good burst, but I believe immolate traits on the path to it are totally worth it, even if that golden trait is shit.

the immolate trait are the golden goose on that path for sure. infact..its probably the best period, even after the nerf. its always contributes to your dmg output no matter what you are doing..single target, multi or aoe and shard generation ofc.

[Deleted]

Im i forced to not use GoS if i wanna use Lord of flames ?

[Deleted]

Im i forced to not use GoS if i wanna use Lord of flames ?

Lord of Flames works with all three talents. But if you are using the infernal I would suggest to not have meteor strike on auto-cast.

[Uzkin]

So at 70.000 spell power (which seemed to be my average number in 898 gear) that would be a difference of 4468 DPS (and then you can add crit if you want to.

Did you take the shard cost of Service into account? A shard used for serv is a shard away from cb. It's also a shard that will not benefit from the plethora of cb talents and traits but benefits from the imp one.

Nothing major, but devalues serv a bit.

[Dastey]

Did you take the shard cost of Service into account? A shard used for serv is a shard away from cb. It's also a shard that will not benefit from the plethora of cb talents and traits but benefits from the imp one.

Nothing major, but devalues serv a bit.

I did not.
But let's see 1133 % Spell power of different per minute.
2 x Service Imp uses 2 Soul Shards (0.66 per minute)
Chaos Bolt does 340% Spell power and is modified by 4% fire damage (2% due to chaos right?), 7.5% crit damage and 15% chance to refund 1 soul shard (I'm considering this a 7.5% damage increase in this calculation). Taking it up to 400 %
Chas Bolt has a 2.5s cast time with talents.
2 x Service imp has 3 second cast time
Incinerate does 175 % spell power * 1.04 * 1.12 = 203.84 % Spell power
Incinerate has a 1.8s cast time with artifact traits so you get 0.5s / 1.8s = 0.277 of an incinerate

This brings the numbers up to:
Chaos Bolt + Incinerate fraction: 456%
This is over 3 minutes so 152% Spell power per minute

Bringing difference at 25 Demonic Power procs per minute and Service Imp casts of 14 down to 981 % Spell Power per minute
Which means if there constantly was 2 targets hit by Demonic Power the difference would be ~2750 % Spell Power per minute in favor of Demonic Power. Ofcourse take these numbers with a grain of salt as 25 procs per minute without adjust the amount of Service Imp casts may be incorrect

[Turturin the Warlock]

I did not.
But let's see 1133 % Spell power of different per minute.
2 x Service Imp uses 2 Soul Shards (1.33 per minute)

Service uses 1 soul shard every 90 seconds, or .667 soul shards per minute. the "regular" imp is out constantly and doesn't cost soul shards. Where are you getting the 2x multiplier from?

[Dastey]

Service uses 1 soul shard every 90 seconds, or .667 soul shards per minute. the "regular" imp is out constantly and doesn't cost soul shards. Where are you getting the 2x multiplier from?

I derped while at work. Nontheless I only used 2 Soul shards and not 4 regardless, so doesn't change much in the above

[Bjarkan]

Hm maybe this comment come from my curiosity, but i hope help a little with the Demonic Power's discusion:

Your take into account Soul Havert's 20% pet's damage up? (Tho, i dunno if Soul Harvest buff up the Serv Imp's damage as well as normal Imp)

Demonic Power damage can be increase by Mana Tap? If so, as Imp fire bolts is not (or a least i thinks if not), in situations where you can pick up a similar buff, GoS wont be straight better then GoServ?

P.D.: Sorry for my bad spelling, and working on it.

[Smog]

Hm maybe this comment come from my curiosity, but i hope help a little with the Demonic Power's discusion:

Your take into account Soul Havert's 20% pet's damage up? (Tho, i dunno if Soul Harvest buff up the Serv Imp's damage as well as normal Imp)

Demonic Power damage can be increase by Mana Tap? If so, as Imp fire bolts is not (or a least i thinks if not), in situations where you can pick up a similar buff, GoS wont be straight better then GoServ?

P.D.: Sorry for my bad spelling, and working on it.

Unless numbers are significantly changed, GoSac is always going to be better on a fight with more than one target.

[Bjarkan]

Unless numbers are significantly changed, GoSac is always going to be better on a fight with more than one target.

Hm i may be not so sure... A buff like Soul Harvest, that can increase pet damage, may can make a difference if can increase the damage for the two imps (the normal, and the service's one), AND, CD's Infernal still is considered a pet, right? So, it can be gain damage increase for Soul Haverst, maybe? (I really doubt Lord of Flame can, tho...)

Just saying, if the fight require heavy burst AOE damage, maybe with Soul Harvest pets buffing, it can be a viable option?

Or, in case of a ST fight, if there is a buff that increase our damage, but not pet damage, maybe GoSac can be a better option, if Demonic Power can be buffed by those kind of buff?

To tell the truth, i wasnt able to try Alpha, Beta or even PTR (no PC right now), so i just have been reading feedback after feedback, but there are thing i may just mislook.

[wholol]

Unless numbers are significantly changed, GoSac is always going to be better on a fight with more than one target.

If they could just bring back the command pet ability baked into GoSac to offer some more viable options in pvp, that would be great.

[Smog]

Hm i may be not so sure... A buff like Soul Harvest, that can increase pet damage, may can make a difference if can increase the damage for the two imps (the normal, and the service's one), AND, CD's Infernal still is considered a pet, right? So, it can be gain damage increase for Soul Haverst, maybe? (I really doubt Lord of Flame can, tho...)

Just saying, if the fight require heavy burst AOE damage, maybe with Soul Harvest pets buffing, it can be a viable option?

Or, in case of a ST fight, if there is a buff that increase our damage, but not pet damage, maybe GoSac can be a better option, if Demonic Power can be buffed by those kind of buff?

To tell the truth, i wasnt able to try Alpha, Beta or even PTR (no PC right now), so i just have been reading feedback after feedback, but there are thing i may just mislook.

Do what you want. The math has been provided. Your question has been answered.

[Fearsom1992]

The only spec the doom guard beats the main pet is demonology for affi sacrifice is the go to since fel hunter damage is so bad / each dot has a chance to proc the shadow damage and for destro service imp and imp to insane damage with the 18% perk this isn't math breakdown it's logic from mythic testing

[Gaidax]

The only spec the doom guard beats the main pet is demonology for affi sacrifice is the go to since fel hunter damage is so bad / each dot has a chance to proc the shadow damage and for destro service imp and imp to insane damage with the 18% perk this isn't math breakdown it's logic from mythic testing

It's not that clear for Destruction - GoSac gets +50% boost from artifact compared to 18% for imp... It's not that far away single target and the moment you can cleave it enough during the encounter - it is just better.

Serv is best single target - no doubt there, but the moment AoE or cleave is involved it's much less obvious. Only obvious thing is Supremacy is shit, unless you really need that interrupt.

[Uzkin]

I think it would be much better if Cataclysm was the baseline destro AoE ability, instead of RoF: just give Cata the 3-shard cost and remove its cooldown. Tab-spamming Immolate to sustain AoE is not fun and feels clunky (yeah); baseline Cata would fix this issue.

RoF would then become a talent in Cata's place, without a shard cost but with a cooldown. It should be in the same talent tier with FnB, so that the choice would be burst vs. sustained AoE. Currently, the legion destro AoE talents are too much spread out, and this would fix it a bit.

[Dastey]

Cataclysm is way too strong an ability not to be a talent. The initial damage isn't what would be overpowered but the fact that it applies immolate to all enemies is just so powerful that I completely understand why it's a talent.
What bothers me is that it is in the same tier as our mana regen talent, which I certainly dont plan on ever speccing out of as I hate life tap

[Gaidax]

Yes, having immolate on a couple of targets makes you literally unable to spend the shards, thankfully Rain of Fire stacks on itself - if you stack it 3 times or so, damage is hilarious.

[Dastey]

It's a bit dumb why they didn't put Fire & Brimstone and Cataclysm in the same tier as using Cataclysm (atleasr for AoE) makes you unable to do anything other than spam Rain of Fire.
I get that Cataclysm has a cooldown much longer than the duration of immolate, but only in very few encounters are adds up for more than 20 seconds every minute