Pharah has needs a nerf?

[Deleted]

Seems like Blizzard gave you exactly what you need

[Huntaer]

Any room with a low roof is the bane of Pharah's existence. Perfect hiding spot for Mercy.

Aye most people i encounter are silly enough to follow you in there

[McLovenIt]

[DeadmanWalking]

Was a slight exaggeration, I just dont like weapons that you dont actually have to hit the person. Same reason i really dont like Junkrat.
I often see Pharahs get a card at the end of the game and it shows really low direct hit %, like 10-20%. It just annoys me sometimes.

It wouldn't be a team fortress descendant if it didn't have a rocket jumping soldier or a pipebomb firing Demo-man. It also has to have turrets. If every choice was targeting based it would be quite a boring game. Diversity in game play is a good thing. It makes you change up your tactics. You can't stay clumped up around Lucio if missiles are doing splash damage and you can't go down the frieght carts because junkrat is littering that area with pipebombs.

You also can't assume that they are not targeting, if anything hitting with rockets is harder because you have to lead your target due to slow travel speed, and junkrats will kill more people with direct arc aimed hits than random littering of the ground. Headshot on purpose with a pipebomb and tell me that its all random littering of the floor.

[Butosai]

If someone can't hit a pharah reliably then they can't hit anything reliably and it is a personal targeting skill issue, which has no value in a discussion about balance. Just because someone is just starting out in this game doesn't mean that they can't target properly as a lot of people have played other fps games before. It isn't like pharah is hard to hit like Tracer.

i can headshot a tracer as hanzo 100x easier than i can headshot pharah. Hitscan is the only thing that can really kill her, as she flies around your team 2 shotting most heroes in the game by not even hitting them with aoe

[Jessicka]

i can headshot a tracer as hanzo 100x easier than i can headshot pharah. Hitscan is the only thing that can really kill her, as she flies around your team 2 shotting most heroes in the game by not even hitting them with aoe

If you're going to make complaints, at least base them on facts.

[Tucci]

Thank Blizzard for shitting on Widow to the point where Pharah, who was once hard countered by Widow, now more often than not counters Widow. It takes way too long to line up shots unless you stand still and standing still doesn't mix with projectiles with no damage falloff, especially ones with gigantic splash damage and knockback.

[WskyDK]

Pharah isn't two shorting anyone without direct hits.

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Thank Blizzard for shitting on Widow to the point where Pharah, who was once hard countered by Widow, now more often than not counters Widow. It takes way too long to line up shots unless you stand still and standing still doesn't mix with projectiles with no damage falloff, especially ones with gigantic splash damage and knockback.

what the fuck are you talking about? It requires two body shots to kill a Pharah (like it did before) and a headshot is instakill (like before)

[Tucci]

Pharah isn't two shorting anyone without direct hits.

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what the fuck are you talking about? It requires two body shots to kill a Pharah (like it did before) and a headshot is instakill (like before)

That's assuming you hit your shots and she doesn't see you first. Pharah doesn't have to float in the air for you. She can peek you from across the map and flank from anywhere, concussive blast you or herself to get close to you. As soon as she sees you, you have to move. Ever since the scope animation change, Widow has become incredibly situational and sluggish.

[Darkeon]

Top notch quality bait, if I might add. And I agree, Mercy should be a 100% direct counter to Pharah. The fact that she is having issues killing Pharah means the latter needs a definitive nerf.

[WskyDK]

That's assuming you hit your shots and she doesn't see you first. Pharah doesn't have to float in the air for you. She can peek you from across the map and flank from anywhere, concussive blast you or herself to get close to you. As soon as she sees you, you have to move. Ever since the scope animation change, Widow has become incredibly situational and sluggish.

You had to hit her before, she could hit you before, she could flank you before, she could concussive blast you before. None of this has changed.
As for quick scoping, stop scoping when she's close? Her assault rifle does plenty of damage.
You're complaining that a Pharah can kill you as a widow maker when she's close. No shit. Just about everyone can.

[Eapoe]

Pharah isn't two shorting anyone without direct hits.

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what the fuck are you talking about? It requires two body shots to kill a Pharah (like it did before) and a headshot is instakill (like before)

Correction, it takes 2 fully charged body shots to kill Pharah, where it used to be a fully charged and a double tap. As it stands now, unless the person playing Widow is very quick and accurate to get head shots on Pharah, then a Pharah getting healed by Mercy or even AoE healed by Lucio is now more of a threat to Widow than she used to be.
Widow can't even double tap Zen anymore without charging at least 1 shot fully and 2 charges on the follow up. The nerf to Widow made her very unplayable for people that were just okay to begin with.
If Pharah sees the tracer shot from Widow, most of the time Pharah will kill Widow now if they face off.
As far as Pharah getting nerfed? Just no. She takes more skill to get direct hits on people than most others primary fire mode and has a few counter characters (Torb's turrets And S76) even with the nerf to Widow.

[WskyDK]

Correction, it takes 2 fully charged body shots to kill Pharah, where it used to be a fully charged and a double tap. As it stands now, unless the person playing Widow is very quick and accurate to get head shots on Pharah, then a Pharah getting healed by Mercy or even AoE healed by Lucio is now more of a threat to Widow than she used to be.
Widow can't even double tap Zen anymore without charging at least 1 shot fully and 2 charges on the follow up. The nerf to Widow made her very unplayable for people that were just okay to begin with.
If Pharah sees the tracer shot from Widow, most of the time Pharah will kill Widow now if they face off.
As far as Pharah getting nerfed? Just no. She takes more skill to get direct hits on people than most others primary fire mode and has a few counter characters (Torb's turrets And S76) even with the nerf to Widow.

Before it took a full charge body shot (150) and a partial charge (50) to kill Pharah
Now it takes a full charge (120) and a partial charge (80)
Not two full charge shots.
its easy as fuck to kill a Pharah as widow. It just takes right about a 3/4 a second longer

Edit: had to re-math
Edit 2: math is probably off. Can't find a reliable charge-up time for widow to full charge. Some places say one sec, others say 1.4 either way it still comes out to less than a second difference in kill time compared to before

[Tucci]

You had to hit her before, she could hit you before, she could flank you before, she could concussive blast you before. None of this has changed.
As for quick scoping, stop scoping when she's close? Her assault rifle does plenty of damage.
You're complaining that a Pharah can kill you as a widow maker when she's close. No shit. Just about everyone can.

Haha, yeah, "peek you from across the map" means close apparently. And good luck with the SMG vs her rockets and mobility. I mean, if you want to argue about it, there's a nice 1700 post/85 page thread on the offical forums. It's by far the largest thread on there. It's not Widow's damage that crippled her, it's the time it takes to line up shots and how vulnerable you are. Everyone who isn't biased knew Widow was too strong before. But the scope "fix" completely changed her playstyle. One that she had for months and months of beta.

[WskyDK]

Haha, yeah, "peek you from across the map" means close apparently. And good luck with the SMG vs her rockets and mobility. I mean, if you want to argue about it, there's a nice 1700 post/85 page thread on the offical forums. It's by far the largest thread on there. It's not Widow's damage that crippled her, it's the time it takes to line up shots and how vulnerable you are. Everyone who isn't biased knew Widow was too strong before. But the scope "fix" completely changed her playstyle. One that she had for months and months of beta.

Pharah is even easier to deal with the further away she is.
I don't need to argue it, I'm not making excuses in trying to get a hero nerfed.
Pharah is just as easy to kill as she was before.
Sucks you lost the ability to quick scope, but adapt or die.

[Eapoe]

Before it took a full charge body shot (150) and a partial charge (50) to kill Pharah
Now it takes a full charge (120) and a partial charge (80)
Not two full charge shots.
its easy as fuck to kill a Pharah as widow. It just takes right about a 3/4 a second longer

Edit: had to re-math
Edit 2: math is probably off. Can't find a reliable charge-up time for widow to full charge. Some places say one sec, others say 1.4 either way it still comes out to less than a second difference in kill time compared to before

That 3/4 second is more than enough time for a Pharah to launch a rocket at your position going up, another while in the air, and another for dropping down to the ground. As you said, it takes longer to charge a shot, and with Pharahs rockets being roughly .5 secs per shot, she will get off more than enough to out damage the Widow, and the blast hit that launches Widow will also thro off her next shot quite a bit.
Now, I agree with the next poster that yes, Widow did need a nerf, but based on the old play styles, the counter mechanic was role reversed on these 2, and requires a Widow player to be much more mobile and work for more of a surprising strike. When playing the old way since the nerfs, it's pretty common seeing a Widow get outsniped by many more players and requires a change in gameplay.

[baskev]

I am a Diamond II LoL player on average, maining Soraka (that game's healer) and a Mercy Main in OW with a 62% WLR in quick play and almost 10-0 so far in competitive placements. I've always immensely disliked Pharah and feel she has no counterplay from my perspective. This isn't actually a scrub obviously claiming this, but when she sets her sights on you, it's about as fun as when a Scout or Soldier hounds you as Medic in TF2. It's usually pointless to try to frag her since she has unlimited mobility and knockback so when I see Pharah on me, I can just try to move around erratically until someone catches onto her (while spamming for help) or more often than not just die. There's pretty much nothing else I feel I can do. Pretty much ALL my critical deaths on Mercy are to Pharah, and it's made more stupid by the fact these players don't care if they die themselves and will just suicide to rid of you.

i could say all the counters and easy ways to kill here....but not going there all i will say....

L2P!!!!!!!

[WskyDK]

That 3/4 second is more than enough time for a Pharah to launch a rocket at your position going up, another while in the air, and another for dropping down to the ground. As you said, it takes longer to charge a shot, and with Pharahs rockets being roughly .5 secs per shot, she will get off more than enough to out damage the Widow, and the blast hit that launches Widow will also thro off her next shot quite a bit.
Now, I agree with the next poster that yes, Widow did need a nerf, but based on the old play styles, the counter mechanic was role reversed on these 2, and requires a Widow player to be much more mobile and work for more of a surprising strike. When playing the old way since the nerfs, it's pretty common seeing a Widow get outsniped by many more players and requires a change in gameplay.

But it's not like widow is stationary.
Take your shot, strafe if needed, and fire.
Unless they're looking directly at you, they still have to establish where you are.
If a Pharah jumps you, you're going to lose


Edit: just going to end with this(not directed at you Eapoe) (as I still have no more difficulty killing phara now than I did prior to nerfs) stop asking for hero nerfs, when the issue with how you're playing.

[Tucci]

Pharah is even easier to deal with the further away she is.
I don't need to argue it, I'm not making excuses in trying to get a hero nerfed.
Pharah is just as easy to kill as she was before.
Sucks you lost the ability to quick scope, but adapt or die.

Pharah is only easy to deal with if you get the drop on her while she's in the air and doesn't have a Mercy on her. And even then, you better hope you hit a headshot. Range doesn't matter. If you don't kill her before she turns and fires, you gotta go. I did adapt. I, like many others, barely play Widow anymore, lol. She's too vulnerable and situational now. She's also boring as fuck to play. Hardscoping 24/7 is no fun and her skill cap was lowered immensely. Have you seen the tournaments? Widow is barely used anymore and Pharah is everywhere. I'm not saying Pharah needs a nerf. It's just that ever since Widow was crippled, Pharah became much stronger. Honestly, most of the other hitscan heroes like 76 and McCree are much better at taking her out just because they can stay mobile.

[Eapoe]

But it's not like widow is stationary.
Take your shot, strafe if needed, and fire.
Unless they're looking directly at you, they still have to establish where you are.
If a Pharah jumps you, you're going to lose


Edit: just going to end with this(not directed at you Eapoe) (as I still have no more difficulty killing phara now than I did prior to nerfs) stop asking for hero nerfs, when the issue with how you're playing.

I understand, I also feel the same way about hero nerfs in general as most, if any, don't need to happen. Maybe if they fixed headshot hit boxes and projectile weapon hit detects against head shots, almost all issues would be fixed.
You kind of summed it up though, if Pharah jumps you, which is easy to do once they see the tracer line for her placement. Smart Pharahs will also wait until just after a shot from Widow to fly up as well as she won't charge fully before they find her. The slow movement of scoped zoom also hurts her combined with Pharah's rockets causing a small knockback and throwing off the shot. If you do get the drop on her as Widow though, I agree, advantage Widow; however, now after the nerf, if you don't kill her then you need to relocate as Widow has a hard time staying in the same area and keeping an advantage.