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  1. #61
    Frost: 2H Was my fav, they killed it (1h frost too boring) RIP spec.
    Blood: Runic power on death strike is annoying but can live with it.
    Unholy: freaking amazing, the only spec they didn't kill and actually did a good job in my opinion of all classes.

    I would play lock but they feel bad on mobility... only fear to peel really? pet ability derpderp...want the void shield back and not taunt.

    Rogue look great but outlaw attack sounds is a turn off.

    My second main is monk, MW=dead the playstyle isn't the same.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjoramier of Lordaeron View Post
    Did you play survival?!?!?

    Anyway, why must you ejaculate salt all over a perfectly good thread? Saying legion is wod 2.0 because blizzard "ruined" your class is retarded.

    Also opinions exist
    Yeah, surv didn't feel fun at all. Woops, didn't get to keep the stack up, huge loss. Stack based damage, as melee? LoL.

    Did I say that Legion was ruined because of Hunter changes? Nah. If you mean your mom by thread, then yes I did.
    You seem to get triggered real easy though.
    I was a Death's Demise.
    Those were the good old days.

  3. #63
    Deleted
    I don't really understand some complains, for most people WoD sucked on a lot of aspect, Blizzard tried to listen to their community and people are angry about the huge swing in the gameplay of their classes ?

    Beside SV hunter, most changes aren't as huge as the Wotlk -> Cataclysm prepatch for example. Back in the days I played Blood dps and Ret, one spec got simply removed and the other was unbearable at the start. I'm still playing WoW because they change things on a lot of classes and there is always something enjoyable about some specs and raiding is always fun. Sometimes it's just the moment to try new classes.

    About the "number" of rotational abilities, I don't remember a time when classes had much more rotational buttons to press. The only thing I despise is the loss of niche ability, those were fun and added flavor to the classes.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by gaz770 View Post
    Frost: 2H Was my fav, they killed it (1h frost too boring) RIP spec.
    Blood: Runic power on death strike is annoying but can live with it.
    Unholy: freaking amazing, the only spec they didn't kill and actually did a good job in my opinion of all classes.

    I would play lock but they feel bad on mobility... only fear to peel really? pet ability derpderp...want the void shield back and not taunt.

    Rogue look great but outlaw attack sounds is a turn off.

    My second main is monk, MW=dead the playstyle isn't the same.
    I also feel bad because of the 2H but the overhaul theme of one hand weapons sounds cool enough.So i will give a try.

  5. #65
    I've always played many specs on a casual level but most of the classes I did play in MoP are now much less interesting and fun to play as. Arms warrior is just horrible for example (to me). Of course ability pruning is to be blamed and/or I've just lost interest for games in general. Same with huntard, rogue, warlock e.t.c...

    I hope it'll be better in Legion. Haven't really watched any legion alpha and beta vids on YouTube.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovassy View Post
    Demo lock offers a brand new playstyle/role (summoner)
    current demo is far more unique than legion demo. (playstyle wise)

  7. #67
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    I greatly enjoy most of the class updates myself, BM hunter being the exception (as I have said many times in many places). Thankfully I do like the overhauled Survival melee spec, so I guess I'll play that mostly.

    And specs like Outlaw, Fury, Frost DK and Vengeance DH? Positively love em'.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violetti View Post
    current demo is far more unique than legion demo. (playstyle wise)
    I wonder what spec looks like Legion demo ?

    Btw, Fire mage with the Comb change feels like the WoD demo imo, bar the metamorph.

  9. #69
    I feel that Legion is taking huge strides to make classes and specs feel unique, and making combat feel far more exciting.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekowa View Post
    I wonder what spec looks like Legion demo ?

    Btw, Fire mage with the Comb change feels like the WoD demo imo, bar the metamorph.
    wut. Fire Mage feels like Fire Mage, lol. (A few new spells but the core of the spec plays the same as it has for a few expansions now.) Meta was such an essential part of Demo's toolkit that I don't see how you can even make the comparison.

  11. #71
    Deleted
    Most classes are much better and more unique than in WOD

  12. #72
    The whole "bring the player not the class" mentality was the thing that started the godawful homogenization that made the classes what they are now.

    They have butchered the unique playstyles of "hybrid" classes. Druids having 4 talent trees wtf is that? Splitting feral into two talent trees was the most horrible thing that ever happenned to a class in WoW.

    Yes top guilds did stack specific classes in order to get faster and easier kills, but almost every class was pvp viable, and raid viable with different specs.
    Yes you rarely saw a frost mage in a raid, or a shadowstep rogue (whatever that was), and you, usually didn't see protection warriors in PVP.
    But classes felt unique. Each class had advantages and disadvantages.
    Clothies were squishy and had less health, tanks did shit damage, but were hardly killable, healers had different specializations and excelled at different things. Want a tank healer - probably a Hpala will be better, druids use hots, have a battle ress, and innervate, priests have superior aoe heals in holy and were nice single target healers with shields and stuff. Shammies brought totems, spammed chain heals and had bloodlust.
    Tanks were different. Warrior was the tank, tough, big shield, armor debuff to help your melee. Druid was beefy, dodgy, better threat generation, higher damage, ability to switch to cat form and do decent damage when a second tank is not needed. Pala had superior aoe, and some needed situational utility like bubble, hand of protection, and of course the blessings.
    And the shadow priests? The mana and the healing they were providing to the raid, the unique position they had, unique flavor.

    Apart from the general class homogenization a lot of mechanics went out of the game, that made some classes better in some situations than in other.
    Do you remember the last time you ran completely out of mana as a healer in a raid?
    Do you remember the last time you lost threat on a boss as a tank?
    Do you remember the last time you had to stop your dps or change a target because of threat level as a DPS?

    There was leather that was better for a druid than a rogue, different plate for different classes, different weapon types for different specs, even the weapon speeds mattered and differed from one another depending on your spec and class.

    Now everyone wears the same armor, uses the same weapons, has more or less the same abilities. The animations are still different, but the classes really don't feel that different anymore.

    At some point you just need to decide for yourself - what do I want to play:

    - Tank
    - Healer
    - Range DPS
    - Melee DPS

    And then just choose whatever animation and name you like more, since the playstyles won't differ that much. And, probably, it is not even that bad, it helps with the balance, it makes sure no one is left out, no one is frustrated with not getting into raids, or getting into raids, but not getting that specific loot that they were hunting for the last month etc.
    But it is just a slightly different game now than it was. The game has evolved and our look on it shall evolve too.
    It is now more of a bigger and more complex DoTA, or a more team based Diablo, than what the game initially was.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sheetka View Post
    Most classes are much better and more unique than in WOD
    Well first they run the whole class system into the ground in WOD - so it is not so surprising that in Legion things get better.
    There is not much that could've gone worse in Legion compared to WOD in the class uniqueness department.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by sheetka View Post
    Most classes are much better and more unique than in WOD
    Can't agree with the whole "better" thing, at least from my PTR experience so far. And while there are situations where a class improves as the artifact gets unlocked, more than a few players are going to return, take a look at what's left of their class right off the rip, and simply leave.

  14. #74
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    I'm somewhat in the same boat, mostly due to the fact that they completely changed both BrM and MW.
    I don't find the new play style interesting at all, and I was already somewhat meh on the other classes.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    wut. Fire Mage feels like Fire Mage, lol. (A few new spells but the core of the spec plays the same as it has for a few expansions now.) Meta was such an essential part of Demo's toolkit that I don't see how you can even make the comparison.
    Class with a few dots with some windows of high burst that could spec for high AoE damage, you pop combu in the same way you popd Meta. I'd say that old combu was pretty unique and was what made or broke dps as a fire mage, it feels different now.

    Anyway it's just a feel, different people may have different feeling, but I think those who enjoyed demo gameplay should give a try to the new fire mage.

    Quote Originally Posted by PassingBy View Post
    Do you remember the last time you ran completely out of mana as a healer in a raid?
    Do you remember the last time you lost threat on a boss as a tank?
    Do you remember the last time you had to stop your dps or change a target because of threat level as a DPS?
    At least Druid ran oom in Mythic progression in HFC, some healing specs have easier time than other that's true, but mana management is still a part of the game. Margok Mythic progression was rough for mana bar too.
    I never lost threat playing as a tank on a boss since I started playing during Wotlk.
    That was just frustrating tbh, it was great to see that it went away. Bad tanks were yelled at for that and turned away a lot of potential tanks without adding much to the depth of the role. Tanks are about surviving and boss positionning first, then about DPS to push timers.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekowa View Post
    Class with a few dots with some windows of high burst that could spec for high AoE damage, you pop combu in the same way you popd Meta. I'd say that old combu was pretty unique and was what made or broke dps as a fire mage, it feels different now.

    Anyway it's just a feel, different people may have different feeling, but I think those who enjoyed demo gameplay should give a try to the new fire mage.



    At least Druid ran oom in Mythic progression in HFC, some healing specs have easier time than other that's true, but mana management is still a part of the game. Margok Mythic progression was rough for mana bar too.
    I never lost threat playing as a tank on a boss since I started playing during Wotlk.
    That was just frustrating tbh, it was great to see that it went away. Bad tanks were yelled at for that and turned away a lot of potential tanks without adding much to the depth of the role. Tanks are about surviving and boss positionning first, then about DPS to push timers.
    Threat management and threat generation was a big part of the game. Both for tanks and DPS. As a tank you would sometimes change your build, or gear if you were having threat problems. And that was one of the things that separated good tanks from bad tanks. Your threat generation was as important as boss positioning and survival.
    As a DPS your threat management was a big part of your job too. You don't just mash all the buttons to go batshit crazy on the boss - you actually think, plan your bursts etc. Some classes had abilities they could utilize (another thing that made those classes unique in some sort) a rogue could vanish, a hunter could feign death and so on.
    Mana management was an issue in most of the fights, not in some when progressing undergeared in the last tier raid.

    And if you never lost threat on untauntable bosses - you have been playing with DPS that actually gave a shit and controlled their threat levels.
    We used to have fun on farm runs with my DPS friends where they would try and catch aggro of the trash mobs or the boss, just to fuck with me and see if they could.
    Now it is virtually impossible to pull aggro of a tank even if he is a complete moron that doesn't understand what the fuck he is doing.

    I won't be surprised that you can go blood presence or defensive stance in LFR while outgearing the tank by 40-50 ilvls and you still won't pull aggro.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Drodoo View Post
    I'm somewhat in the same boat, mostly due to the fact that they completely changed both BrM and MW.
    I don't find the new play style interesting at all, and I was already somewhat meh on the other classes.
    My main is BrM & MW too.
    I will quit monk for legion due for same reason but give a try to PTR, don't go ''nah boring'' without playing them a little.

    Never knew I would but ill prob end up playing with marksman hunter in legion, I love the mastery idea (more range & dmg).

  18. #78
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PassingBy View Post
    Threat management and threat generation was a big part of the game. Both for tanks and DPS. As a tank you would sometimes change your build, or gear if you were having threat problems. And that was one of the things that separated good tanks from bad tanks. Your threat generation was as important as boss positioning and survival.
    As a DPS your threat management was a big part of your job too. You don't just mash all the buttons to go batshit crazy on the boss - you actually think, plan your bursts etc. Some classes had abilities they could utilize (another thing that made those classes unique in some sort) a rogue could vanish, a hunter could feign death and so on.
    Mana management was an issue in most of the fights, not in some when progressing undergeared in the last tier raid.

    And if you never lost threat on untauntable bosses - you have been playing with DPS that actually gave a shit and controlled their threat levels.
    We used to have fun on farm runs with my DPS friends where they would try and catch aggro of the trash mobs or the boss, just to fuck with me and see if they could.
    Now it is virtually impossible to pull aggro of a tank even if he is a complete moron that doesn't understand what the fuck he is doing.

    I won't be surprised that you can go blood presence or defensive stance in LFR while outgearing the tank by 40-50 ilvls and you still won't pull aggro.
    I'm not denying it was a big part of the game, just that it was really pointless. DPS should be able to go ham at the start of an encounter even if the tank is bad at dpsing, because it's funnier for the DPS. As I said raiding with a bad or outgeared tank was frustrating. Threat gen was replaced by optimising DPS for tanks and the DPS can now be free of Omen. New tanks can now have the time to learn to tank without being bullied by DPS who only want to have fun.

    If you open a boss in Def stance I can guarantee you that the boss will say hi to you if your tanks are bad/outgeared, I tested in an alt run more than once. Even with the threat nerfs, I still grab aggro on big packs of mobs if I reckstorm as soon as they pop, it's not fun HAVING to use Die by the Sword each time you play with baddies.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekowa View Post
    I'm not denying it was a big part of the game, just that it was really pointless. DPS should be able to go ham at the start of an encounter even if the tank is bad at dpsing, because it's funnier for the DPS. As I said raiding with a bad or outgeared tank was frustrating. Threat gen was replaced by optimising DPS for tanks and the DPS can now be free of Omen. New tanks can now have the time to learn to tank without being bullied by DPS who only want to have fun.

    If you open a boss in Def stance I can guarantee you that the boss will say hi to you if your tanks are bad/outgeared, I tested in an alt run more than once. Even with the threat nerfs, I still grab aggro on big packs of mobs if I reckstorm as soon as they pop, it's not fun HAVING to use Die by the Sword each time you play with baddies.
    If we follow your logic - we should add a "don't die" button for each of the tanks, and add markers on the floor for where the boss should go, since raiding with a tank, that doesn't know how to position boss is also not so fun (less cleaving bosses in later raids than before), and it is definately not so fun to raid with a tank, that doesn't know how to pop his cooldowns to stay alive.

    I don't know about your experience, but in the guilds that I have been a part of as an MT or OT, or as a DPS - the DPS that pulled the aggro was the one that usually got the blame, not the tank. Even if the tank was new, or gearing up, or if it was an alt run and the guy tanking was still learning to do it.

    As for def stance - will check it in LFR for shits and giggles. I have just tried going blood tank in LFR - just keeping the diseases up and autoattacking generates enough threat to hold the boss. Yes I outgear the DPS, but still it is a joke.

    You can say that watching a threat meter as DPS was frustrating, and optimizing your spec and gear as a tank to provide that burst threat (or hoping that your hunters can help you with that - another unique utility by the way, that is gone now) was not fun, but it was an essential part of the game, that required some skill and thought. It was taken away in favor of a more understandable and straightforward mechanic. I am not saying that it is bad per se, probably it is the way it should be, but I personally don't like it.

    Same with the old talent trees - yes there were cookie cutter builds, yes there were "unfun" talents that gave you 1% damage or 3% armor or 1% spellhit or whatever, but you had to learn your talents, understand the way they work together, theorycraft etc. They went for an easier more understandable and straightforward way again.

    With the class design and raid compositions they want for an easier and more understandable and straightforward way also. By making the classes more homogenized and less different, so that people won't feel frustrated that some classes have some unique abilities, that their class doesn't have and that they were left out because of not having those abilities.

    And in the end we have a more understandable and straightforward game, that brings less frustration and anger, but has lost a lot of its flavor.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaz770 View Post
    My main is BrM & MW too.
    I will quit monk for legion due for same reason but give a try to PTR, don't go ''nah boring'' without playing them a little.

    Never knew I would but ill prob end up playing with marksman hunter in legion, I love the mastery idea (more range & dmg).
    Oh, I have tried them, most on the beta, and a few hours on the PTR. And unless they make some massive changed this late, I'm 100% I will not be playing a monk anymore.

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