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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Blizzard really doesn't owe us, as players, any in depth explanations to begin with.
    Owe us? No. They really don't. However they might feel it's in their best interest, which it seems like they do, at least enough to give some sort of reason. Personally I am fine with their explanation. It at least enough for me to fill in the blanks. My take is this.

    WoD was decided on late, only enough content was created for one year, they realized it sucked and subs were lost in part to that reason, decided to abandon ship not even finishing every thing planned on in WoD in order to finish up Legion. Hoping to capitalize off the natural uptick that comes with new xpacs they plan to recapture some of those lost subs with what is hopefully an expac that is superior to Legion.

    Simplified perhaps, I bet there are a lot of moving parts and nuances in all this. And of course I could just be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I don't know that their explanation matters much. I'm unsubscribed and not paying them for the service. At that point I cease to care about either the truth, rationalizations or anything else much. When there's new stuff to do I'll come back.

    It's really a pointless thing. I don't think Blizzard lies exactly. I think the reasons they give for things are generally part of the truth but they withhold their own internal discussions and problems and that's completely appropriate. I worry about their management since they seem to wander into these blind alleys in terms of development that nearly anyone who has spent just a few years developing any sort of software would know. More people is never faster. More people allows you to get more done. Whatever the slowest part of the critical chain is, that's the pace at which it goes and very often in these cases, throwing more coders at something just confuses and breaks what is already done.

    Whether or not it's internal chaos or because they all don tinfoil hats, climb up on the tables in their conference rooms and meditate for a couple of hours in the afternoon is really none of our business. There's no customer right to demand to know stuff that a company deems proprietary and the very implication that there is is so unrealistic I don't even know where to start.

    So, long breaks? Unsubscribe? Don't give them money. Don't spend any time at all of your life--which is shorter than you can imagine sometimes--spinning up wild theories in vain attempts to gain some sort of attention to yourself. It's a waste of time and life.

    Unsubscribe. Play other games. Read books. Whatever. Enjoy yourself and put BS like this out of your mind. You'll never know anyway.
    This is what I did. Just stopped playing till they announced legion, then came back to prepare a bit. That being said, I can both stop giving them money, play other stuff and be interested in what they have to say in regards to these matters. Even if ultimately it doesn't affect my personal choice as to whether I will play and pay or not.
    Last edited by Hexxidecimal; 2016-06-30 at 05:14 PM.

  2. #82
    Deleted
    From my exit interview:

    you: I think in the UK there is also the issue that sub price has gone up, the expansion price went up even more and yet this expansion is the shortest so far
    GM: Ah yes sadly subscription went up by one quid. As to expansions we are getting a lot of players asking for faster expansions. But I understand what you mean.
    you: I think what people want it less of a gap between the end of one expansion and the start of the next!
    GM: Hopefully that is something we are planning to do, no one likes a long break between the last patch and the next expansion. Its going to take some work, but hopefully this will come (speaking as a player myself)
    What he reported back to the devs included "The customer feels that the gap in the last patch and the next expansion is going to be too long without new content."

    This was 9th Sept last year...

    Shame to be right about the gap but think they missed what we meant about 'faster' expansions.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Blizzard really doesn't owe us, as players, any in depth explanations to begin with.
    And why not? I am not in the entertainment industry or in commerce but I suspect it's better when a customer asks you about the shortcomings of your product instead of simply casting it aside and stopping to pay for it.

    Blizzard and the players have a relationship, if one side says silent or only speaks out when it's convenient then that relationship is over.

  4. #84
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    Blizzard and the players have a relationship, if one side says silent or only speaks out when it's convenient then that relationship is over.
    A lot of people presume they have a relatively personal relationship with Blizzard without giving any consideration to the fact that Blizzard does not have a personal relationship with them. "My feedback was ignored" is one example of this. There is a presumption there.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  5. #85
    Immortal Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    Yeah, after the fact (or so they say). Why did they not realise that yearly expansions were not going to happen during the 26 month MoP expansion? Why did they make us suffer through 22 months of WoD? The Alpha + Beta alone is almost a year. They know this. It just doesn't make any sense that they truly believed that Legion would be out in a year knowing what they know about expansion cycles.

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    They just come off of a 26 month expansion. Do you really think that the devs were all sitting around after that and going "ok guys this expansion will be 12 months long", then 12 months later going "ok dangit I really thought we could do this. Looks like we need another 10 months afterall"? How could you be that off base with your timeline after 10 years of making expansions? Just the Alpha + Beta alone is almost a year, then add in patch content and actually developing the expansion, we're at the 2 year mark. I really cannot imagine any scenario where they genuinely believed that a yearly expansion was realistic and achievable after 26 months of MoP.
    They also have to answer the question of how long Legion would've been delayed from this August release date had they developed another raid tier for Warlords. Artwork is always a major roadblock. They probably weighed that and made their decision. But they also said artifacts ended up being a lot more work than they anticipated. So there's one big roadblock we know about in Legion development.
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  6. #86
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    A lot of people presume they have a relatively personal relationship with Blizzard without giving any consideration to the fact that Blizzard does not have a personal relationship with them. "My feedback was ignored" is one example of this. There is a presumption there.

    It's certainly hard not to feel that way at least in some respects for this beta. As for feeling personally slighted and or feeling like they insulted your mum, well that's dumb lol.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  7. #87
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It's certainly hard not to feel that way at least in some respects for this beta. As for feeling personally slighted and or feeling like they insulted your mum, well that's dumb lol.
    About as dumb as believing that everyone at Irvine HQ is in a vast conspiracy to screw over their players and produce the laziest bad game imaginable. I see it every day though.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    A lot of people presume they have a relatively personal relationship with Blizzard without giving any consideration to the fact that Blizzard does not have a personal relationship with them. "My feedback was ignored" is one example of this. There is a presumption there.
    I'm not talking about some spoiled brat whining about how daddy Blizzard does not listen to their issues, I'm talking about the concerns of the masses that should be taken seriously and not ignored and placed in the same basket as whiny fits of rage.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Throwing more people at a problem is not always some magical solution to speed it up.
    The content or systems in an MMO are often not completely independent of each other.
    A lot of it will need collaboration, to try and ensure that it doesn't break the work of someone else.
    And the more people you have, each with their own way of doing things, their own contributions, the worse that gets.

    "Too many cooks spoil the broth".
    Sums it up still very nicely.
    There is such a thing as too many people.
    So its total mismanagement of resources in your opinion? At least you cant blame the community for this one........or can you?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It's certainly hard not to feel that way at least in some respects for this beta. As for feeling personally slighted and or feeling like they insulted your mum, well that's dumb lol.
    Not as dumb as people throwing money at Blizzard or defending them like some long lost friend regardless of how badly they treat their subscribers. Its the same people over and over again and they will all feel pretty stupid in a few years time too.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    A lot of people presume they have a relatively personal relationship with Blizzard without giving any consideration to the fact that Blizzard does not have a personal relationship with them. "My feedback was ignored" is one example of this. There is a presumption there.
    While you are correct, isn't having loyal fans who actually care about Blizzard because Blizzard care about them a good thing?

    You're not making a good case for Blizzard here. If I were forced to defend Blizzard I would say they do actually listen to valid concerns raised by fans.

    Damn, I actually defended Blizzard. Thanks Moana.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    I'm not talking about some spoiled brat whining about how daddy Blizzard does not listen to their issues, I'm talking about the concerns of the masses that should be taken seriously and not ignored and placed in the same basket as whiny fits of rage.
    Who are those people? This "mass" that should be taken seriously? The people saying "OMG WOD IS SHIT, BLIZZ LIES, LISTEN TO ME"? Because constructive criticism, feedback or discussion is definitely taken into account/consideration and has been since the original alpha. But who should they priorise? Raiders? PVPers? Dungeoners? Pet Battlers? Exploraters? Crafters? AH warlords? Loremasters? RPers?

    There isn't a specific "mass" to listen to.

  12. #92
    Immortal Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    I'm not talking about some spoiled brat whining about how daddy Blizzard does not listen to their issues, I'm talking about the concerns of the masses that should be taken seriously and not ignored and placed in the same basket as whiny fits of rage.
    What masses? You mean the posting base on MMO champion which is less than all the Mythic raiders in the game? Those who complain about things are a very very small minority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twaster View Post
    Not as dumb as people throwing money at Blizzard or defending them like some long lost friend regardless of how badly they treat their subscribers. Its the same people over and over again and they will all feel pretty stupid in a few years time too.
    That's where the problem is. Most people don't feel mistreated by Blizzard. We don't have a personal relationship with them. We have a personal attachment to our characters, not Blizzard. What you might take as offensive I don't give a shit about. It seems like everywhere we look, someone is getting upset because they can't let it go.
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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    This is by far the best summarized post of "speculation" I have seen and I agree with you 100%.

    I've lost all faith in Blizzard because of WoD and many of the decisions they have made with other games.
    I've lost faith in them because their public mouthpieces have become BS artists. We all know perfectly well that Hazzikostas is going to be out there in six months doing damage control on a bunch of things that have gone wrong and at some point he's going to talk about how awesome Warlords of Draenor was... the expansion where we literally got *one thing* that wasn't almost done by the time it was released (HFC) in nearly two years.

    These game developers do not live in the real world. The real world is where World of Warcraft has taken the sharpest plunge in subscriptions in its ENTIRE HISTORY over the past 12 months. But no, let's not let that fact get in the way of the Blizzard hype train.

    In the real world, hype is cheap. Wildstar's designers learned that far too late... you can hype all you want, but players will decide.

    Players will decide. Always.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    The disgusting thing about Blizzard is that their fanboys are the most feverish pack of dogs I've ever come across.

    There are still people who defend Warlords of Draenor as if it was good and Blizzard could do no wrong.
    Let em play in their own shit, they are the reason it has gotten this bad. Stay unsubbed till Legion and if it ends up being trash unsub from it and move on.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    The kicker is that Legion doesn't look *at all* like a mountain of content the size commensurate with the time it is taking them to do it.

    They spent too long redoing classes for the tenth time.
    The weapon and class design took a pretty long time to do. So kinda like garrisons they went all in on one feature. From what I have seen I do like the weapon/class hall stuff so far, but if it doesn't have holding power or they can't keep classes semi balanced Legion is in trouble.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    From a recent interview, it's pretty clear that Blizz flat-out shortened WoD because they thought Legion would be ready soon, so there was no need to stretch WoD out any longer.

    By their own admission, this was a huge mistake. Legion looks to be magnificent, but it took them waaaay longer to complete it than they thought. But that's what's caused this long wait, basically. Had they slapped 6 more months of content onto WoD with the extra raid tier they didn't think they needed, the wait wouldn't have been his unbearable.

    They seem to have learned from it, at least. Here's hoping those lessons are put into practice well enough.
    Hahahhahahahahahha.

    God, Blizz must love you, and people like you.

    P.S. I've got a bridge you might want to buy. Don't mind how it's covered in shit, that's just from all the magical ponies hiding on it.
    Impeach the MF.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by FeedsOnDevTears View Post
    Hahahhahahahahahha.

    God, Blizz must love you, and people like you.

    P.S. I've got a bridge you might want to buy. Don't mind how it's covered in shit, that's just from all the magical ponies hiding on it.
    You know, you must really like twisting things if you are turning my "Blizzard has recognized their mistake. Here's hoping they can manage to turn that knowledge into some benefit" into my saying "Blizzard can do no wrong. I'd eat their poop if they told me it's chocolate".

    Are you allergic to mild hope?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    About as dumb as believing that everyone at Irvine HQ is in a vast conspiracy to screw over their players and produce the laziest bad game imaginable. I see it every day though.
    They might not be consciously attempting to screw over the players, but it is entirely possible that they are either not putting much effort or/and are misguided and making wrong decisions
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    I do not need to be constructive in this thread, nor provide an argument. There is nothing here to actually debate. Your reasoning is flawed and thusly you have no argument.
    ↑ Epitome of Internet Logic

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    The kicker is that Legion doesn't look *at all* like a mountain of content the size commensurate with the time it is taking them to do it.

    They spent too long redoing classes for the tenth time.
    I disagree, being on the beta. Artifact progression, honor progression, pvp ilvl scaling and pvp talent trees, a new class, the gigantic mountain of content that us Suramar...

    In addition, I think the class changes were pretty damn good. Lots of QoL fixes.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I don't think it's too much to ask people to give feedback based on actual abilities/testing, not hyperbole. (Celestalon)

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Manhands View Post
    I disagree, being on the beta. Artifact progression, honor progression, pvp ilvl scaling and pvp talent trees, a new class, the gigantic mountain of content that us Suramar...

    In addition, I think the class changes were pretty damn good. Lots of QoL fixes.
    Most of things you listed are bunch of bars gating what was previously taken for granted
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    I do not need to be constructive in this thread, nor provide an argument. There is nothing here to actually debate. Your reasoning is flawed and thusly you have no argument.
    ↑ Epitome of Internet Logic

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