No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Bun-Bun]

In both WoD and BC you were esentially stopped once you had completed your daily quests. no more progression that day.
To say there is no lore involved and that the quests and progression were excessive in both WoD and Legion is a blatant lie.

However, there were lots of different areas to choose from and they were fast and not annoying to do. And most importantly, there was progression. No do the same shit everyday for the entire xpac.

I'm doing the pit right now. Theres a blue bar filling for some reason, I have 1 objective "Assualt the Blackrock orcs at the Pit" The quest from my garrison suggests I am preventing something by being here. I don't know what any of these named mobs are doing, I don't know what any of the glowing shit is. Theres nothing here but a bunch of clickable and attackable shit.

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Because you shouldnt have to choose to be disadvantaged to experience content in the way it was developed.
Reverse the mount speeds. 310 ground, 100% air. Problem?

Choosing a ground mount is not disadvantaging you in any way, except for world PVP. Choosing a ground mount simply puts you at a different perspective.

Ground mount being substantially faster doesn't make any sense. And 310% ground mount would be extremely disorientating.

[wing5wong]

Choosing a ground mount is not disadvantaging you in any way, except for world PVP. Choosing a ground mount simply puts you at a different perspective.

Choosing a ground mount over a flyer instantly reduces your speed by a factor of 3. At least. Travel time is reduced by that, with an additional decrease by flying in a straight line over hills.
How can you claim that is not a disadvantage?

Ground mount be substantially faster doesn't make any sense. And 310% ground mount would be extremely disorientating.

Doesnt make sense how? Why are flying mounts so fast in the first place?

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However, there were lots of different areas to choose from and they were fast and not annoying to do. And most importantly, there was progression. No do the same shit everyday for the entire xpac.

These quests were the same quests, every day, for the entire expansion, just as they are now.
In fact, the quests required far more travelling and time to do - the claim that doing all the dailies was faster is just flat out false.

Im doing brunhildir dailies still for the polar bear - why am i freezing eggs again? I think im preventing the spawn of dragons. Why?

[Bun-Bun]

How can you claim that is not a disadvantage?

Like no flyers constantly say, its just convenience. Flight doesn't provide you the ability to do content any more than a ground mount can. The content is gated regardless, flight doesn't make your character more powerful, it changes nothing in the progression of your character.

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Doesnt make sense how? Why are flying mounts so fast in the first place?

Birds move in a horizontal direction a lot faster than a horse.

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These quests were the same quests, every day, for the entire expansion, just as they are now.
In fact, the quests required far more travelling and time to do - the claim that doing all the dailies was faster is just flat out false.

Im doing brunhildir dailies still for the polar bear - why am i freezing eggs again? I think im preventing the spawn of dragons. Why?

There were non daily quests leading up to the areas, more quests opening up as you increased in rep, as the xpac progressed new quests were unlocked with new currencies and rewards and entire events unlocking different stages of the xpac. The quests were descriptive and gave you specific tasks to do and a reason to do them. The player was actually involved in the world.

WoD, hit 100, a map table unlocks and sends to you to fill up a blue bar.

[wing5wong]

Like no flyers constantly say, its just convenience. Flight doesn't provide you the ability to do content any more than a ground mount can. The content is gated regardless, flight doesn't make your character more powerful, it changes nothing in the progression of your character.

Except for the rate at which power can be gained.

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Birds move in a horizontal direction a lot faster than a horse.

what's the max speed of a flying carpet?
Or a mechanical head helicopter?
What about deadly kryparium rockets?

There were non daily quests leading up to the areas, more quests opening up as you increased in rep, as the xpac progressed new quests were unlocked with new currencies and rewards and entire events unlocking different stages of the xpac. The player was actually involved in the world.

Look, im not arguing for the wod mission table system - that wasnt great in terms of how many dailies you could do, but the system of killing/collection/use of world items (mortars/bombs and so on) as contributing mechanics is far far FAR better than loot 5 egg freezing items and click them.

[Bun-Bun]

Except for the rate at which power can be gained.

No, the content is still gated.

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what's the max speed of a flying carpet?
Or a mechanical head helicopter?
What about deadly kryparium rockets?

You missed the point completely.

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Look, im not arguing for the wod mission table system - that wasnt great in terms of how many dailies you could do, but the system of killing/collection/use of world items (mortars/bombs and so on) as contributing mechanics is far far FAR better than loot 5 egg freezing items and click them.

Doesn't matter how good the mechanics are, if its boring its boring. Watching a blue bar fill is boring. And I disgree, timeless/tanaan mechanics are not better.

[wing5wong]

No, the content is still gated.

Yes, but one method takes 3 times as long.

You missed the point completely.

Not really, you just said flying is faster than ground. Why does it have to be?

Doesn't matter how good the mechanics are, if its boring its boring. Watching a blue bar fill is boring. And I disgree, timeless/tanaan mechanics are not better.

Choice of which aspect to pursue in order to complete the quest, vs click this thing 5 times. kill this mob 10 times.
It's interesting (considering your view on flying) that you think the current method is worse, whilst it provides more choice/freedom in how you approach it.
Blue bar vs 0/5 1/5 2/5 3/5 4/5 5/5 - it really doesnt matter how its tracked.

[Bun-Bun]

Yes, but one method takes 3 times as long.

Pathfinder would still take over a month if flight was available before hand. The content is still gated.

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Not really, you just said flying is faster than ground. Why does it have to be?

You can't argue with physics.

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Choice of which aspect to pursue in order to complete the quest, vs click this thing 5 times. kill this mob 10 times.
It's interesting (considering your view on flying) that you think the current method is worse, whilst it provides more choice/freedom in how you approach it.
Blue bar vs 0/5 1/5 2/5 3/5 4/5 5/5 - it really doesnt matter how its tracked.

Still boring. Uninteresting objectives without purpose. And its less choice. I only have 1 quest, a boring one. I dont' get to choose what I do today, I am told what I do. And its the same, never changing loreless dribble.

[Eapoe]

Pathfinder would still take over a month if flight was available before hand. The content is still gated.

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You can't argue with physics.

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Still boring. Uninteresting objectives without purpose. And its less choice. I only have 1 quest, a boring one. I dont' get to choose what I do today, I am told what I do. And its the same, never changing loreless dribble.

Is gated content seriously the arguement people are going for now? I understand the arguement, "ground mount vs flying mount doesn't matter since it still takes X time to unlock Y shiny thing." Seriously though? The gating is part of what separates it and makes choices matter. If time is limited in a persons day, and they have to choose which faction to go for that day vs being able to do all of them in 1 day because of the speed up mechanics of flight, then there is no decision to be had, no weight to the idea of doing something, no impact of choice. Not to mention, stating content is gated behind time hurts pro fliers against anti fliers, as the reverse is true: if things are unlocked at the same time, why is flight necessary to speed up your consumption of said content? Obviously the arguement would be decision of travel, which also then brings us full circle to flight skipping/trivializing content.
As far as physics goes, you're arguing physics in a fantasy game where characters are allowed a backpack and 4 bags to carry like a hobo, each of which can obtain 32 items (give or take), and go into battle firing unending bullets/arrows and call fire from their fingertips, all without being slowed down one bit.
All dailies are this if you see them that way. There was no changing of any daily since I can remember, just the same rotation between 2-3 quests that always remain the same. As stated, dailies went from having 3 seperate quests of kill X mobs, kill named mob, collect X amount of items to do all those things over one quest. Nothing has changed. There's lore associated to all of them, whether you find that lore boring or interesting is opinion. What do you mean you don't get to choose what to do? Let's compare...Tanaan sends you out to battle the forces encamped there in a multitude of spots, with various ways of completing that daily from killing mobs to looting items to fighting named mobs that spawn from a small event to freeing slaves to healing injured warriors, vs Argent Tourney sending you to set places to battle forces and collect items, while fighting a Kraken from the sea, fighting people with a lance every day, and sometimes sending spirits to rest. What's the lore to compare? Tanaan you are thwarting the Iron Horde, to the Burning Legion, to the Arrakoa, all with their own back stories and reasons for being there. Argent Tournament you are fighting the scourge to the Vrykul to helping the Tuanka. All with their own back stories (save Scourge as they are undead slaves). Again, if you don't find the lore surrounding the quests appealing that's your opinion, doesn't mean it's not there.

[wing5wong]

Pathfinder would still take over a month if flight was available before hand. The content is still gated.

Yes. it is. as it always has been..

You can't argue with physics.

This has to be a joke. Being in the air does not suddenly make you faster than being on the ground.
Maybe we just need to add hyperloop carriages to the game and instead?

Still boring. Uninteresting objectives without purpose. And its less choice. I only have 1 quest, a boring one. I dont' get to choose what I do today, I am told what I do. And its the same, never changing loreless dribble.

You didnt choose what to do in any other expansion for daily quests either.
You got a set rotation, and you did them, or you didnt. exactly as it is now.
You enjoying the lore and backstory behind the expansion is not anyones problem but your own.

Simply repeating this weak argument about content gating and being told what to do is getting old (and laughable when people add that the camera changes are in to disguise and shift attention from flight issues).

[Bun-Bun]

which also then brings us full circle to flight skipping/trivializing content.

This has already been beaten to death, you said it yourself, its convience. Reduces/eliminates tedium. You can not skip content, its gated. Flight does not make your character more powerful. The only exception to this is world pvp.

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What do you mean you don't get to choose what to do? Let's compare...Tanaan sends you out to battle the forces encamped there in a multitude of spots, with various ways of completing that daily from killing mobs to looting items to fighting named mobs that spawn from a small event to freeing slaves to healing injured warriors, vs Argent Tourney sending you to set places to battle forces and collect items, while fighting a Kraken from the sea, fighting people with a lance every day, and sometimes sending spirits to rest. What's the lore to compare? Tanaan you are thwarting the Iron Horde, to the Burning Legion, to the Arrakoa, all with their own back stories and reasons for being there. Argent Tournament you are fighting the scourge to the Vrykul to helping the Tuanka. All with their own back stories (save Scourge as they are undead slaves). Again, if you don't find the lore surrounding the quests appealing that's your opinion, doesn't mean it's not there.

WotLK had the entire continent of stuff I could choose from every day. I wasn't limited to what the daily was.

WotLK had lore surrounding everything, everything had purpose and reason and an explanation to go along with it. WoD has none of that. Very brief description of each bonus area and thats it. There is no further lore. Even Ion can see this and admit to it. Not sure what is wrong with you people.

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This has to be a joke. Being in the air does not suddenly make you faster than being on the ground.
Maybe we just need to add hyperloop carriages to the game and instead?

Go back to highschool then.

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Yes. it is. as it always has been..

Exactly. Flight doesn't change it.

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You didnt choose what to do in any other expansion for daily quests either.
You got a set rotation, and you did them, or you didnt. exactly as it is now.
You enjoying the lore and backstory behind the expansion is not anyones problem but your own.

Simply repeating this weak argument about content gating and being told what to do is getting old (and laughable when people add that the camera changes are in to disguise and shift attention from flight issues).

First take camera changes back to it's thread.

And I sure as hell did choose in WotLK. I had an entire continent of quests to choose from. If I didn't feel like doing a certain quest that day, I didn't do it. But I still got progress from the other ones. This was furthered with rotating quests in Cata where if a quest popped I didn't like I went to one of the other zones and did dailies there instead. Choice, and lore to back it up. WoD I feel like I have to do the stupid bonus areas. And that is design Blizzard says they don't want.

If WoD told a story I am sure I would enjoy it.

And you repeating the same dribble is also getting old. your opinions are no better than anyone else's.

[wing5wong]

WotLK had the entire continent of stuff I could choose from every day. I wasn't limited to what the daily was.

You choose to progress, or you choose not to.
You might have had some illusion of choice, but if you wanted to progress you needed to do all the dailies related to the progression you were interested in.
Dont like sons of hodir quests today, you're behind one day on enchants.

Go back to highschool then.

Hang on, let me give my physics teacher a call and ask him how to calculate the velocity of a flying carpet
If you want to argue air resistance we can, but simply placing one thing in the air does not make it travel faster.
Regardless, you cant even begin to argue physics in a game where you shoot fireballs and rip moons out of the sky.
Dont be ridiculous.
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And I sure as hell did choose in WotLK. I had an entire continent of quests to choose from. If I didn't feel like doing a certain quest that day, I didn't do it. But I still got progress from the other ones. This was furthered with rotating quests in Cata where if a quest popped I didn't like I went to one of the other zones and did dailies there instead.


And you repeating the same dribble is also getting old. your opinions are no better than anyone else's.

Again, if you chose not to do quests, you chose not to progress. There was not an entire continent of alternative quests for you to do instead. Your progression for that zone for that day was reduced for every quest you didnt choose to do.

I never claimed to have a better opinion, but when you misrepresent what was actually possible in bc and wotlk, and seem to hold significant bias against what is actually available in wod, and then even moreso in legion, then theres an issue.
My opinions are backed up with fact. not more opinions.

If you want to maintain the strongest argument for flight (its fun), then there should be no issue adjusting speed to match that of ground.
Anything above that and the argument simply become a matter of convenience. The game is not the same anymore when you zip from A to B with nothing in-between. its never been that.

[Dhrizzle]

A lot of the gating was explained by lore, there was progression through most of the daily quests/hubs. And like I also said, the rest wasn't done in a way that it felt jarring. Gating roics/raids is as much as preventing people from burning out then elongating content. Not once during BC or WotLK did I feel like content was been drawn out far too long or gated in a way that it pulled me from my immersion. Plus there was lots to do everyday and had choice of what to do. WoD gave very few options. Each area had its own story and if I didn't feel like doing one on a particular day then I didn't, I went and did something else. WoD you did the daily availible to you or you didn't progress.

Again you're talking about what you happen to enjoy, it doesn't make gating in TBC and WotLK and more "natural" as opposed to WoD's "artificial." I do agree that WoD was overly restrictive with the dailies it allowed you to do when first released, up until they introduced the Missives, but WotLK also chafed when you really needed to get rep with a particular faction and could only do a few quests each day. Why do they only want 5 Scarlet Gryphon Riders killing a day if they constitute a threat? Why do I only have to spend 10 minutes defending Wyrmrest when the blues are attacking 24-7? What were the awesome lore reasons that make sense of the situation?

No, like I said, BC and WotLK didn't suffer from those issues.

And raids are different as that is for a challenge. You work with a team of people to progress. Everything outside of raids is not challenging.

If you needed certain items from a TBC heroic then you had one shot each day and with RNG it could take months, if you were saving up for the latest tier pieces in WotLK you only got the higher level currency from the first heroic you did each day. How is that not gating? What difference does it make if raids are challenging or not, if you can complete them in a week and then have to wait for it to reset how is that not gating?

I don't understand how you can say flight content was unappealing yet say WoD content was more enjoyable. There's nothing there to enjoy.

There's plenty to enjoy, with over a dozen Apexis zones there's probably more variety than WotLK, Cata or MoP launched with and I find the varying mechanics in WoD to be much more interesting than the kill/collect/use x/y/z format of traditional dailies. I found just one-per-day felt needlessly restrictive but the content itself was very enjoyable compared to the tedium of sniping whatever mobs were on the shopping list.

You gave your opinion but didn't answer the question. Why is this a problem? The gamers who care will play that way. Why do gamers NEED to play a certain way? Why does the content NEED to be consume in a specific way? Everyone is different and everyone enjoys things differently. Forcing gamers to one perspective will only alienate them.

Because gamers will naturally gravitate towards the easiest/most efficient way to complete a piece of content, giving players tools that can make content much easier will lead to most of them following the easier path even if it leads to an overall less enjoyable experience.

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Still boring. Uninteresting objectives without purpose. And its less choice. I only have 1 quest, a boring one. I dont' get to choose what I do today, I am told what I do. And its the same, never changing loreless dribble.

If you can't understand what is going on in an area from completing the quests in the zone, reading the daily quest description when you pick it up, completing the garrison campaign quest associated with the apexis zone (in at least half of them) or just looking at what the mobs are doing in the area then you clearly don't care much for lore anyway.

[Eapoe]

This has already been beaten to death, you said it yourself, its convience. Reduces/eliminates tedium. You can not skip content, its gated. Flight does not make your character more powerful. The only exception to this is world pvp.

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WotLK had the entire continent of stuff I could choose from every day. I wasn't limited to what the daily was.

WotLK had lore surrounding everything, everything had purpose and reason and an explanation to go along with it. WoD has none of that. Very brief description of each bonus area and thats it. There is no further lore. Even Ion can see this and admit to it. Not sure what is wrong with you people.

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Go back to highschool then.

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Exactly. Flight doesn't change it.

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First take camera changes back to it's thread.

And I sure as hell did choose in WotLK. I had an entire continent of quests to choose from. If I didn't feel like doing a certain quest that day, I didn't do it. But I still got progress from the other ones. This was furthered with rotating quests in Cata where if a quest popped I didn't like I went to one of the other zones and did dailies there instead. Choice, and lore to back it up. WoD I feel like I have to do the stupid bonus areas. And that is design Blizzard says they don't want.

If WoD told a story I am sure I would enjoy it.

And you repeating the same dribble is also getting old. your opinions are no better than anyone else's.

Maybe there's a misunderstanding then, but just going off how I take your post, yes, Wrath had an entire continent to choose from for which factions dailies you did, but so does WoD. For instance, want to do Tuanka, go there and do those dailies, want to do Tourney, go there and do those dailies...so yes, you have a choice which faction you want to do, but the choices OF the dailies themselves are limited to the same ones on a rotation of 3-6 different quests where you only have 3 a day (maybe 4 in some cases and think 5-6 for tourney as you progressed). As stated though, with the exception of the jousting part, these are all limited to kill X, collect X, click this body. I will admit in the way you draw some mobs out (drums for the Worms of tourney come to mind), but still reduced to kill X. This same model exists for WoD...choose which faction you'd like to progress, accept the appropriate daily, go complete with the model of kill X, collect X, click this body. This was added onto with the vendor that lets you buy a specific areas repeatable area if you don't want the ones it accesses.
The lore thing I don't get honestly. For Tuanka you are helping gather supplies for a village or collecting baby's to preserve a species. Tourney you are fighting scourge of feeding the very beasts you fight in the raid. Cata, the only ones I remember in the Firelands zone is just to get a foothold while fighting Rags. WoD, you are fighting the Iron Horde's base camps in Nagrand, you are disrupting their mining in Gorgrond, you are beating back the Ogres in their very encampment of Frostfire, you are freeing the enslaved Arrakoa from the ones joining the Iron Horde in Spires, you are suppressing the final push of the Burning Legion into Draenor in Tanaan.
The lore is there for all xpacs, people just don't see it as it's not directly in your face with text every time you do a daily.
As far as the highschool comment, he's just stating that even with laws of physics and a basic understanding, things are not always faster in the air where movement speed is concerned. My car can outrun a bee or bird, where a jet would outrace my car. Lift does not equal propulsion vs resistance.

[Deleted]

Until you admit it's true... that you can choose to not fly and leave the rest of us alone.

At least you admit its a stupid argument.

Anyway, games don't work like that. You are showing blatant ignorance of the problem.

[FelPlague]

Maybe there's a misunderstanding then, but just going off how I take your post, yes, Wrath had an entire continent to choose from for which factions dailies you did, but so does WoD. For instance, want to do Tuanka, go there and do those dailies, want to do Tourney, go there and do those dailies...so yes, you have a choice which faction you want to do, but the choices OF the dailies themselves are limited to the same ones on a rotation of 3-6 different quests where you only have 3 a day (maybe 4 in some cases and think 5-6 for tourney as you progressed). As stated though, with the exception of the jousting part, these are all limited to kill X, collect X, click this body. I will admit in the way you draw some mobs out (drums for the Worms of tourney come to mind), but still reduced to kill X. This same model exists for WoD...choose which faction you'd like to progress, accept the appropriate daily, go complete with the model of kill X, collect X, click this body. This was added onto with the vendor that lets you buy a specific areas repeatable area if you don't want the ones it accesses.
The lore thing I don't get honestly. For Tuanka you are helping gather supplies for a village or collecting baby's to preserve a species. Tourney you are fighting scourge of feeding the very beasts you fight in the raid. Cata, the only ones I remember in the Firelands zone is just to get a foothold while fighting Rags. WoD, you are fighting the Iron Horde's base camps in Nagrand, you are disrupting their mining in Gorgrond, you are beating back the Ogres in their very encampment of Frostfire, you are freeing the enslaved Arrakoa from the ones joining the Iron Horde in Spires, you are suppressing the final push of the Burning Legion into Draenor in Tanaan.
The lore is there for all xpacs, people just don't see it as it's not directly in your face with text every time you do a daily.
As far as the highschool comment, he's just stating that even with laws of physics and a basic understanding, things are not always faster in the air where movement speed is concerned. My car can outrun a bee or bird, where a jet would outrace my car. Lift does not equal propulsion vs resistance.

except in wotlk, if you dident do hodir and the rep you got your head enchant off of, every day, to get those enchants ASAP you were a bloody idiot, and if i was your raid lead back then and heard "oh yeah i skipped out on my sons of hodir quests this week cause i wanted to do taunka" i woulda called you a cheeky cunt and kicked ya from the raid group

also hes saying if you got a jet put it near the ground, had it fly, it would move the same as if it was 10 feet up, same with a car on a road, or a car on a road 10 feet up... both would drive the same speed...

just because your flying, does not mean your going faster, heck the orignal flying mount actuallty made you slower in the sky, going from 100% to 60% so it was better to run there on the ground mount if you dident need to fly

[Deleted]

800g for the skill and 100g for the mount, before reputation discount, iirc.
And that amount could be easily saved from questing to level 70 from scratch.

for druids flying was free and at 68

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People also don't yet realize that everything in Legion is level 110, which means your aggro radius while running around is huge, absolutely massive, which means riding around on a mount is fucking annoying, so you even more rely on the whistle + FP combo.

Wait till people who actually CARE for archaeology notice this

[wing5wong]

people who actually CARE for archaeology

I've heard of these people, i hear they ride unicorns and live at the bottom of rainbows

[Maudib]

At least you admit its a stupid argument.

Anyway, games don't work like that. You are showing blatant ignorance of the problem.

You must work for Blizzard... :P

[Incarnia]

I've heard of these people, i hear they ride unicorns and live at the bottom of rainbows

We do? Where's my unicorn?!

[Mafic]

The nerf to resources from world quests puts a nail in the coffin of the no fly utopia of Legion. Everyone will be grinding in instanced heroics and mythic dungeons.