"Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism."

[tankbug]

Hence why I said "mainstream" not general majority. Remaining out of sight would not make them mainstream.

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Well, doesn't it make sense that radical feminists get more media attention than your average person? I don't think anyone gets famous for being that well-balanced person with moderate views, unless they are famous for something else as well.

Women actually have the advantage currently in professional life though.. so who cares?

In some countries they do, and in many they don't. Laws aside, women struggle to be taken seriously as experts and managers in many fields. Maybe not visible to us, but they have to deal with a lot of older guys that aren't used to seeing women as peers or bosses.

[Spectral]

I consider myself a feminist as I think men and women are equally intelligent and skilled.

How are you defining "skilled"? There are obviously skills where men and women differ in ability and distribution of abilities. These include cognitive differences, particularly present in specific domains such as spacial orientation (although not heavily g-loaded).

In fact, I'd find it pretty bizarre if it turned out than men and women turned out to be exactly equal in intelligence, skill, and distribution of intelligence and skill.

[nonameelf]

I think it's slightly different.

Slave comes from: the latin word Sclavus and the Byzantine Greek Sklabos.
Slavs, the tribe, likely got their name over time from the circumstance of many of them being enslaved by conquerors.
For Slavs is also another option, Slovo, which refers to speech.

It seems to be based on the southern slavs(Croatian, Serbian, Bulgarian) rather than their northern cousins.

[Super Kami Dende]

In some countries they do, and in many they don't. Laws aside, women struggle to be taken seriously as experts and managers in many fields. Maybe not visible to us, but they have to deal with a lot of older guys that aren't used to seeing women as peers or bosses.

In every job I've ever worked in and even in my current job the Women have always been shown infinitely more respect and understanding by the higher ups, hell most of my higher ups have been a pretty even mixture of older Men and Women.. In Western Society which seems to be the society these harpies complain the most about "MUH PATRIACHIES" and shit, Women have it easy.

[Deleted]

She was also talking about how for example feminist groups lobbied to get some sort of jobs "reserved" to women like in our case primary school teachers. She was arguing that this had long term implications on children. The lack of a male figure teacher at a early age.

From a British perspective, the gender gap in primary school teachers is well documented. I think it's something like only 10-20% of teachers are men, with ~ 1/4 to 1/3 of primary schools having no male teachers at all. I would definitely wager that this is a factor contributing to the current low achievement of boys we're seeing in and after high school. Not only do they not have male role models that understand how to reach young boys, but there is almost an atmosphere of intolerance for "boyish" behaviour in schools now.

It's good that universities are finally starting to reach out to young men (after years of campaigning by Mary Curnock Cook on the issue) but I think more has to be done, earlier.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Which feminist group or individual would you characterize as moderate and representative? Please, be specific.

The majority of feminists that aren't out to kick the balls in of every man they see.

[ls-]

I think it's slightly different.

Slave comes from: the latin word Sclavus and the Byzantine Greek Sklabos.
German, and other languages still carry the C or K in the word.. Sklave, Sclavo

Slavs, the tribe, likely got their name over time from the circumstance of many of them being enslaved by conquerors.
For Slavs is also another option, Slovo, which refers to speech.

Actually us, Slavs, have other theories, they mostly revolve around our words that mean either (our) people or fame.

[Spectral]

The majority of feminists that aren't out to kick the balls in of every man they see.

I'm shocked that you'd give an evasive answer instead of answering what should be a pretty easy question. Perhaps NOW, an organization I've been assured is on the side of light and righteousness, giving awards to rape-hoaxers has left you a bit gun-shy on naming who the moderate feminists are?

[zenkai]

But white men deserve it, because they invented slavery and kept women oppressed for so long. Now that all the women in the world are free and liberated feminists can concentrate on the really important issues like manspreading.

I hope you're being sarcastic

[Deleted]

Thing is, most of what is referenced in this article is mainstream media outlets.

Right. A lot of those named specifically write for national, and international, newspapers and magazines. They aren't just writing on some obscure blog that only 3 or 4 people follow.

[Notter]

I am all for feminists that want equal rights, I mean who doesn't want that? But then there are those that want to be better! That's where you draw the line, those that constantly don't give men breathing room.

They have become extremists at this point, how long before they start a terrorist attack? :P

the thing is... in western countries, Women HAVE equal rights.
you might say, they actually have MORE right (for example, children custody).
and at that point, you can't fight for equality for women, you can only fight more superiority for women.

[Deleted]

Maybe I need a change of scenery, but lately I find more people get outraged by rediculous feminist 'news' and claims, than so-called feminists making these claims. Oh, they exist, I'm sure, in the fringes of tumblr and once in a while some seep through into the MSM, but the level of attention they get from the opposition like us here is completely out of proportion. And like someone already mentioned, gives them their gratest ally in spreading their bullshit.

Maybe it is a US vs EU thing, and the US is further along than we are, but here in The Netherlands I simply cannot relate. I cannot find these people complaining about manspreading, mansplaining, fart rape, rape culture and all those other buzzwords. And that is coming from someone who has been dating a feminist for the past 5 years now.

Take the perceived wage-gap for a moment. Everyone I've talked to, male, female, feminist or not knows it completely evaporates when you account for personal choice, and the argument is not about oppressing men into relinquishing 72% of their salaries, or about companies paying women more. We already have laws in place for that. Instead, most feminists I've talked to want to empower women by giving them insight into the choices that leads to this situation, so they can make different choices. Until recently some of these choices were pretty uncommon for women, such as their role in STEM fields or going to uni at all as opposed to staying at home. I think eroding these gender roles starting at a very young age is a good development to create a society of equals.

As a personal anecdote, 5 years ago I went from dating my motherly, taditional, caretaking but slightly smothering high school sweetheart after a break up to dating a feminist student from the same AI computer science class I was in. Quite the radical change but I have never been happier. It is so rewarding to be on equal footing with each other and to be able to disagree with eachother as equals.
(Mandatory disclaimer: Your mileage may vary. This worked for me, not advocating it as the rule of law for everyone. My experiences have influenced my opions for the better and as you undoubtably will tell me, also for the worse )

[tankbug]

The National Organisation of Women (as mainstream a feminist organisation as it gets) just gave its annual award to a proven false rape accuser who ruined an innocent man's life because she hates men and patriarchy

Rape is difficult, because it's often word against word. Maybe she was raped, maybe she wasn't. Unless she admits that she made the whole thing up, or overwhelming evidence suggest that she lies, the organisation can support her cause without being unethical.

Every day is a new article about how a mainstream feminist does something to "strike a blow against men and toxic masculinity"

You mean they are writing in a way that suggest that men are the problem, or that masculine culture is the problem? I agree with the latter, in some cases.

Unlike Islam, which has a tiny minority of extremists, mainstream feminism is a widespread hate movement against men

I don't agree with that, I think even the special interest organisations don't want to turn men into lesser citizens. Anyway, don't forget that many organisations that are mainstream, have some feminist policies, even though they aren't mainly working for feminism.

[Spectral]

...I think eroding these gender roles starting at a very young age is a good development to create a society of equals.

What makes you say so? I don't see the evidence that it's actually making anyone any happier. Instead, the data I've seen shows that women are less happy than they used to be and I think there's entirely plausible arguments that two-income households just wind up wasting resources chasing positional goods.

As a personal anecdote, 5 years ago I went from dating my motherly, taditional, caretaking but slightly smothering high school sweetheart after a break up to dating a feminist student from the same AI computer science class I was in. Quite the radical change but I have never been happier. It is so rewarding to be on equal footing with each other and to be able to disagree with eachother as equals.
(Mandatory disclaimer: Your mileage may vary. This worked for me, not advocating it as the rule of law for everyone. My experiences have influenced my opions for the better and as you undoubtably will tell me, also for the worse )

Sure, my wife's a scientist and I'm much happier for it. I've never clicked well with people that aren't basically like her and I don't really understand other people's motivations in life. What I see when I look at the evidence though is that modern, anti-gender role norms aren't making society as a whole a better, happier place. Many men and women really are quite happy in more traditional family arrangements. Bombarding people with the message that this is wrong and oppresses women isn't helping society. I'd much rather we present options to everyone, but accept that men and women have different preferences and stop insisting that we need to shoot to achieve income and career parity between genders.

[tankbug]

In every job I've ever worked in and even in my current job the Women have always been shown infinitely more respect and understanding by the higher ups, hell most of my higher ups have been a pretty even mixture of older Men and Women.. In Western Society which seems to be the society these harpies complain the most about "MUH PATRIACHIES" and shit, Women have it easy.

Well, that's just what you see, from your experience. That's not evidence, and I don't have any either, but it's interesting that many women I know or have read about have experiences opposite of yours.

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How are you defining "skilled"? There are obviously skills where men and women differ in ability and distribution of abilities. These include cognitive differences, particularly present in specific domains such as spacial orientation (although not heavily g-loaded).

In fact, I'd find it pretty bizarre if it turned out than men and women turned out to be exactly equal in intelligence, skill, and distribution of intelligence and skill.

Spatial orientation, we win!
Multitasking, they win!


At the end of the day, who cares? Both genders are perfectly capable of doing most kind of professions and research we need.
I don't really count better physical abilities in our favor, since that's a feature which is getting less important every day.

[Deleted]

After the world sees how shitty the new Ghostbusters movie is, everyone is going to feel stupid for being bullied by feminism into seeing it. That will hopefully be the end of the insanity that is modern feminism.

This whole thing is hilarious. Feminists being triggered triggers anti-feminists which trigger feminists. The cycle is complete. Butthurt all around.

I'm triggered by the fact that I'm not allowed to think that the actors in it are bad and that the whole movie is bad, simply because it's an "all female reboot".

That's one of the feminism+ things that is ruining actual feminism; taking the position that a woman is beyond reproach because "it's misogyny" and so on.

[Spectral]

Spatial orientation, we win!
Multitasking, they win!

At the end of the day, who cares? Both genders are perfectly capable of doing most kind of professions and research we need.
I don't really count better physical abilities in our favor, since that's a feature which is getting less important every day.

Definitely! The overlaps in distributions are also sufficient that not judging people individually would be insane. We're talking about skews that are only noticeable when looking at the extremes or at the averages; these aren't much reflected in looking at individual people. The only thing I'm getting at is that there are cognitive differences in both abilities and preferences and we shouldn't be super surprised when genders wind up in different career pursuits (at least when looking at percentages).

[Deleted]

What makes you say so? I don't see the evidence that it's actually making anyone any happier. Instead, the data I've seen shows that women are less happy than they used to be and I think there's entirely plausible arguments that two-income households just wind up wasting resources chasing positional goods.

Sure, my wife's a scientist and I'm much happier for it. I've never clicked well with people that aren't basically like her and I don't really understand other people's motivations in life. What I see when I look at the evidence though is that modern, anti-gender role norms aren't making society as a whole a better, happier place. Many men and women really are quite happy in more traditional family arrangements. Bombarding people with the message that this is wrong and oppresses women isn't helping society. I'd much rather we present options to everyone, but accept that men and women have different preferences and stop insisting that we need to shoot to achieve income and career parity between genders.

Not everything is related. And if it were, not everything is causally related. Society has a lot of problems today; different problems than society had couple decades ago. The growing disconnect with material gain and happiness is the greatest problem we face in the western world, I believe. But you are already jumping to two-income households, which is not a necessary outcome of women empowerment.

I firmly believe that while we move to a more equal and evolved society, we encounter different problems that we need to tackle one by one. Not completely abandon our (liberal western) principles because we encountered a snag, such as a drop in happiness.

To take a much more extreme example, some slaves were much happier before emancipation when they didn't have to make all these tough choices and make an effort to evolve themselves. If you go to the most oppressed Islamic country on earth I am sure you will be able find some veiled women who tell you they couldn't be happier with their current life. Doesn't mean we have to respect the status quo.

If this leads to problems in general unhappiness we need to tackle these problems together. Keeping one half of society devoid of the same choices the other half gets to make is not a solution. Then we might as well stop educating ourselves and fighting obstacles to better ourselves all together, since we can all just live in a cave and be happy like our ancestors

I do however agree with your last point. Bombarding people with the message that what they are doing or what they want is wrong. Some women will be more happy doing the traditional role dance, and that is perfectly fine. They aren't suddenly the Uncle Toms of feminism and both me and my girlfriend despise the feminists that claim so. Just make sure they get the same choices, the same options we do and we will go from there.

[Gamdwelf]

The majority of feminists that aren't out to kick the balls in of every man they see.

So none of them?

[Freese]

I read that a Feminist aborted her unborn baby because it was a Male

She "couldn't bring another monster" - a man - "into the world."

A sick World we live in

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-31448193

Did you read the article you linked? It says that the story cannot be confirmed and that it is probably false.