No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[rda]

The nerf to resources from world quests puts a nail in the coffin of the no fly utopia of Legion. Everyone will be grinding in instanced heroics and mythic dungeons.

What's the nerf? I seem to have missed it.

[Eapoe]

except in wotlk, if you dident do hodir and the rep you got your head enchant off of, every day, to get those enchants ASAP you were a bloody idiot, and if i was your raid lead back then and heard "oh yeah i skipped out on my sons of hodir quests this week cause i wanted to do taunka" i woulda called you a cheeky cunt and kicked ya from the raid group

also hes saying if you got a jet put it near the ground, had it fly, it would move the same as if it was 10 feet up, same with a car on a road, or a car on a road 10 feet up... both would drive the same speed...

just because your flying, does not mean your going faster, heck the orignal flying mount actuallty made you slower in the sky, going from 100% to 60% so it was better to run there on the ground mount if you dident need to fly

While true, the response was directly tied to Bun's post of choosing which dailies to do and placing emphasis on that choice. I was simply showing the comparison that dailies (the makeup themselves, not the rewards) have barely changed since they were 1st introduced.
As far as the mounted speed, I know that and even posted the same thing many, many pages ago, and even referenced it when people were talking about compromises of having the same design for Legion until a later date that gave the epic flight speed again.

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What's the nerf? I seem to have missed it.

I think he's referencing only gathering professions will get the Blood crafting items easily, opposed to crafting professions who can get them but much slower and not as easily, and they are BoP.

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for druids flying was free and at 68

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Wait till people who actually CARE for archaeology notice this

I care for archaeology as I'm an achievement whore and have fun with some of the toys and X of appearances. No issues doing it in WoD without flight and running thru areas getting aggro' by roaming mobs...doubt I will care that much in Legion. Seeing as how I'm not a 1 of a kind special snowflake in this regard, there are many others who share the same mentality.

[rda]

I think he's referencing only gathering professions will get the Blood crafting items easily, opposed to crafting professions who can get them but much slower and not as easily, and they are BoP.

Ah, that.

Yeah, that's another stupidity in the already long line of stupidities for Legion. And while there was a backlash and they did something for double crafters, they did precisely zero - as of now - for double-gatherers. And my main is a double-gatherer, imagine the luck.

That - BoS staying BoP - was the final straw that made me drop all plans to try Legion, which I decided to do after being on the edge for a long time, just in case. Which they refused to refund, too, but that's icing on the cake already.

[Deleted]

Ah, that.

Yeah, that's another stupidity in the already long line of stupidities for Legion. And while there was a backlash and they did something for double crafters, they did precisely zero - as of now - for double-gatherers. And my main is a double-gatherer, imagine the luck.

That - BoS staying BoP - was the final straw that made me drop all plans to try Legion, which I decided to do after being on the edge for a long time, just in case. Which they refused to refund, too, but that's icing on the cake already.

It seems a bit late in the day but I've seen some talk about making all the gathering professions secondary.

Which would make a lot of sense, in some ways at least.

[rda]

It seems a bit late in the day but I've seen some talk about making all the gathering professions secondary.

Which would make a lot of sense, in some ways at least.

Yeah, I am sure they might do something sooner or later, but I am equally sure that what they will do will screw up something else, and I am completely, totally sure there will be plenty of other completely idiotic and avoidable holes they will fall into. They might say that it's a product of designing a big game, and perhaps it is, but since it ends up inconveniencing players all the time, I don't even care as to the reasons, I just had it and I don't want to endure the mess any longer.

[Eapoe]

Ah, that.

Yeah, that's another stupidity in the already long line of stupidities for Legion. And while there was a backlash and they did something for double crafters, they did precisely zero - as of now - for double-gatherers. And my main is a double-gatherer, imagine the luck.

That - BoS staying BoP - was the final straw that made me drop all plans to try Legion, which I decided to do after being on the edge for a long time, just in case. Which they refused to refund, too, but that's icing on the cake already.

Well, Bun mentioned tin foil hat time, and just continuing that trend, I feel like a lot of the more recent changes were because of what happened with Nost and trying to make things closer to Vanilla. This also holds to that mold with Blizzard trying to put more emphasis on a character having crafting AND gathering vs double crafter. The stated reason for putting more emphasis on gathering professions as most players now double craft and have alts for their gathering needs and makes the choices less meaningful (not word for word obviously). I understand that, but feel they should have just made the Blood gathering only but leave them BoE.

[rda]

Well, Bun mentioned tin foil hat time, and just continuing that trend, I feel like a lot of the more recent changes were because of what happened with Nost and trying to make things closer to Vanilla. This also holds to that mold with Blizzard trying to put more emphasis on a character having crafting AND gathering vs double crafter. The stated reason for putting more emphasis on gathering professions as most players now double craft and have alts for their gathering needs and makes the choices less meaningful (not word for word obviously). I understand that, but feel they should have just made the Blood gathering only but leave them BoE.

Man. I am a *double-gatherer*. I am already out in the world, gathering their nodes. The point is that they again behaved like blind elephants and in their efforts to do whatever they wanted to do - be more like vanilla, put more life into gathering, everything you said or something else, I don't care - they *harmed* my gameplay despite me already playing to their standards. Ah, sorry, apparently, they have different standards now, being in the world double-gathering is bad, I have to be single-gathering (and single-crafting).

[Eapoe]

Man. I am a *double-gatherer*. I am already out in the world, gathering their nodes. The point is that they again behaved like blind elephants and in their efforts to do whatever they wanted to do - be more like vanilla, put more life into gathering, everything you said or something else, I don't care - they *harmed* my gameplay despite me already playing to their standards. Ah, sorry, apparently, they have different standards now, being in the world double-gathering is bad, I have to be single-gathering (and single-crafting).

I can empathize, but with this mentality they hurt everyone's gameplay every time they change classes in xpacs or ANY game mechanic. Your gameplay isn't really harmed either as you can still double gather and just buy crafted pieces off the AH, you just aren't going to have some high priced item only you can get from gathering. This change hurts double crafters more than double BoE gatherers, and even they can still get a crafting item at the end of an instanced dungeon run, much like how it was in Wrath.
As I said though, I don't really support their decision as I feel it should be an item only gatherers can collect but still make it able to be traded.

[Deleted]

You must work for Blizzard... :P

No, I just understand how people react in a multiplayer environment - they will always favour the most efficient path/method to achieve a common goal even at the expense of enjoyment.
The game is literally full of examples where it happens or is controlled.

[Florena]

Ah, that.

Yeah, that's another stupidity in the already long line of stupidities for Legion. And while there was a backlash and they did something for double crafters, they did precisely zero - as of now - for double-gatherers. And my main is a double-gatherer, imagine the luck.

That - BoS staying BoP - was the final straw that made me drop all plans to try Legion, which I decided to do after being on the edge for a long time, just in case. Which they refused to refund, too, but that's icing on the cake already.

Leave feedback, it's possible they could still add a vendor to exchange blood of sargeras for other materals etc or give some sort of use to it for double gatherers. I do think there should be something like that, though I'm also fine with them having the bloods be bop.

[Bun-Bun]

You choose to progress, or you choose not to.
You might have had some illusion of choice, but if you wanted to progress you needed to do all the dailies related to the progression you were interested in.
Dont like sons of hodir quests today, you're behind one day on enchants.

There were multiple quests, you didn't NEED to do them all.

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Hang on, let me give my physics teacher a call and ask him how to calculate the velocity of a flying carpet
If you want to argue air resistance we can, but simply placing one thing in the air does not make it travel faster.
Regardless, you cant even begin to argue physics in a game where you shoot fireballs and rip moons out of the sky.
Dont be ridiculous.

I'm being ridiculous? You're the one ignoring basic physics. Look at the speed of land animals vs airborn ones. The airborn ones are faster. Speed in the air is easier for a bunch of reasons. If you refuse to understand this then I can't help you.

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I never claimed to have a better opinion, but when you misrepresent what was actually possible in bc and wotlk, and seem to hold significant bias against what is actually available in wod, and then even moreso in legion, then theres an issue.
My opinions are backed up with fact. not more opinions.

Everything you say, is your opinion. You have no facts backing any of this up.

BC and WotLK had more lore and choice. WoD dailies were poorly designed and lacked in lore and reason. Ion has even admitted this himself. This is the last time I am going to tell you, go watch his interviews. I am not responding to anymore of your BS until you do so.

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how is that not gating?

Never said it wasn't. If you're not going to read what I write then why even bother replying?

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There's plenty to enjoy, with over a dozen Apexis zones there's probably more variety than WotLK, Cata or MoP launched with and I find the varying mechanics in WoD to be much more interesting than the kill/collect/use x/y/z format of traditional dailies. I found just one-per-day felt needlessly restrictive but the content itself was very enjoyable compared to the tedium of sniping whatever mobs were on the shopping list.

It's the exact same mechanics, just now filling a boring blue bar instead of quests that actually explain what you're doing. Killing mobs, collecting items, using things... its exactly the same.

And its all the same through the zones, its just apexis. There is nothing new to unlock and zero immersion in what you are accomplishing.

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Because gamers will naturally gravitate towards the easiest/most efficient way to complete a piece of content, giving players tools that can make content much easier will lead to most of them following the easier path even if it leads to an overall less enjoyable experience.

Now you're changing the topic. And I disagree, flight does not make anything easier. Just takes out the tedium. Go read my earlier posts I am not repeating it again.

But the question unanswered, why is it absolutely necessary that content be consumed exactly how Blizzard envisioned?

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This same model exists for WoD...choose which faction you'd like to progress, accept the appropriate daily, go complete with the model of kill X, collect X, click this body. This was added onto with the vendor that lets you buy a specific areas repeatable area if you don't want the ones it accesses.

Where? Where is the choice to choose which faction I want to do today?

[Deleted]

So, expansion is getting closer, any news.... yet... on when flying will be available? :P

[Bun-Bun]

so yes, you have a choice which faction you want to do, but the choices OF the dailies themselves are limited to the same ones on a rotation of 3-6 different quests where you only have 3 a day

A lot of them new quests unlocked over time (tied into lore), and I could choose not to do all of them. Some days I would only do a couple, but at least I was still progressing.

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So, expansion is getting closer, any news.... yet... on when flying will be available? :P

Middle of xpac.

When is the middle of the xpac? Your guess is as good as anyone elses.

[Deleted]

Middle of xpac.

When is the middle of the xpac? Your guess is as good as anyone elses.

My guess then, at the last tier patch. Since considering how Blizzard always did it, the wait from last tier until next expansion is pretty much half the time of the lifetime of the expansion.

[wing5wong]

There were multiple quests, you didn't NEED to do them all.

You had to do the progression ones (hodir rep etc).
You could skip optional ones rewarding vanity items.
WoD has the same, in the form of the apexis bonus areas. You do 2-3 as part of the faction reps, then you skip the rest if you like.

I'm being ridiculous? You're the one ignoring basic physics. Look at the speed of land animals vs airborn ones. The airborn ones are faster. Speed in the air is easier for a bunch of reasons. If you refuse to understand this then I can't help you.

You're trying to argue physics in a video game full of fireballs, but not acceleration.

Everything you say, is your opinion. You have no facts backing any of this up.

Its not my opinion on what is available.

BC and WotLK had more lore and choice. WoD dailies were poorly designed and lacked in lore and reason. Ion has even admitted this himself. This is the last time I am going to tell you, go watch his interviews. I am not responding to anymore of your BS until you do so.

They had as much lore as bombing runs and netherwing races (hint: not much. dailies very rarely contribute significantly to progression of lore outside of you do t hem, then something happens. (Shattered sun staging progression and so on))
Im not saying the mission table was the greatest choice for how you actually got the dailies.

It's the exact same mechanics, just now filling a boring blue bar instead of quests that actually explain what you're doing.

And its all the same, its just apexis. There is nothing new to unlock and zero immersion in what you are accomplishing.

You're contributing to stopping the iron horde. This is basically the entire story of wod. You not enjoying it is your own problem.
You are fixated on a blue bar vs 0/5 item/mob counts. The tracking system does very little to add to the quest experience, except by limiting what can be done to get the completion credit.

Now you're changing the topic. And I disagree, flight does not make anything easier. Just takes out the tedium. Go read my earlier posts I am not repeating it again.

But the question unanswered, why is it absolutely necessary that content be consumed exactly how Blizzard envisioned?

Its not. you're free to RP walk the entire expansion if you wish

[Bun-Bun]

My guess then, at the last tier patch. Since considering how Blizzard always did it, the wait from last tier until next expansion is pretty much half the time of the lifetime of the expansion.

Would seem reasonable. And a great reason to not buy Legion.

[wing5wong]

Where? Where is the choice to choose which faction I want to do today?

Go to garrison, choose quest (or not), do quest (or not), progress (or not)
Go to garrison, buy quest (or not), do quest (or not), progress (or not)
Go to tanaan, pick up quest ( or not), do quest (or not), progress (or not)

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A lot of them new quests unlocked over time (tied into lore), and I could choose not to do all of them. Some days I would only do a couple, but at least I was still progressing.

The progression timelines in BC/wrath and wod are virtually identical for faction progression.

I dont quite get what you're arguing for here - the choice to do less quests but still progress? That system very much exists in Legion.
Between artifact knowledge and the choice of world quest bonuses, and then the additional choice to just do all world quests (or not)

[Bun-Bun]

Go to garrison, choose quest (or not), do quest (or not), progress (or not)
Go to garrison, buy quest (or not), do quest (or not), progress (or not)
Go to tanaan, pick up quest ( or not), do quest (or not), progress (or not)

So I have to spend my currency to have the choice I always had before...

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Its not. you're free to RP walk the entire expansion if you wish

How about answer the question instead of making snide remarks.

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You're trying to argue physics in a video game full of fireballs, but not acceleration.

Yes but there is still just basic sense. Animals/vehicles in the air are faster than animals/vehicles on the ground. Logically that just makes sense if you understand basic physics. For a flying mount to be significantly slower than a ground mount doesn't make sense. Which was the original point.

How far do you take that? Do you want them to add different speeds for each mount? That would be chaotic and only further the problem.

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They had as much lore as bombing runs and netherwing races (hint: not much. dailies very rarely contribute significantly to progression of lore outside of you do t hem, then something happens. (Shattered sun staging progression and so on))
Im not saying the mission table was the greatest choice for how you actually got the dailies.

... ... ...

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You're contributing to stopping the iron horde. This is basically the entire story of wod. You not enjoying it is your own problem.
You are fixated on a blue bar vs 0/5 item/mob counts. The tracking system does very little to add to the quest experience, except by limiting what can be done to get the completion credit.

What are the named mobs doing? Who are they? What's their significance? What am I doing specifically? Yes I am the commander of an army going against the iron horde. But what am I doing specifically in each area? What are these items I am clicking on? What are they doing? What am I disrupting exactly?

WoD is literally, go to this area, fill the blue bar, done. That's it. All that is required is to find a group on premades and go stand there like an idiot.

I liked the story as it was unfolding from the intro event through shadowmoon. After that it became very disjointed and lacking.

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You had to do the progression ones (hodir rep etc).
You could skip optional ones rewarding vanity items.
WoD has the same, in the form of the apexis bonus areas. You do 2-3 as part of the faction reps, then you skip the rest if you like.

That's only specifically in Tanaan. Which I have already stated did improve upon the system a little bit.

But I don't really like Tanaan. So now what? The rest of Draenor is empty and the only thing to do is mob grinds. Or the apexis daily that gives basically nothing.

[Eapoe]

There were multiple quests, you didn't NEED to do them all.

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I'm being ridiculous? You're the one ignoring basic physics. Look at the speed of land animals vs airborn ones. The airborn ones are faster. Speed in the air is easier for a bunch of reasons. If you refuse to understand this then I can't help you.

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Everything you say, is your opinion. You have no facts backing any of this up.

BC and WotLK had more lore and choice. WoD dailies were poorly designed and lacked in lore and reason. Ion has even admitted this himself. This is the last time I am going to tell you, go watch his interviews. I am not responding to anymore of your BS until you do so.

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Never said it wasn't. If you're not going to read what I write then why even bother replying?

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It's the exact same mechanics, just now filling a boring blue bar instead of quests that actually explain what you're doing. Killing mobs, collecting items, using things... its exactly the same.

And its all the same through the zones, its just apexis. There is nothing new to unlock and zero immersion in what you are accomplishing.

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Now you're changing the topic. And I disagree, flight does not make anything easier. Just takes out the tedium. Go read my earlier posts I am not repeating it again.

But the question unanswered, why is it absolutely necessary that content be consumed exactly how Blizzard envisioned?

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Where? Where is the choice to choose which faction I want to do today?

The choice is the mission table that lets you decide to do the solo/group daily and receive rep for the appropriate faction. Later on, that was improved by Blizzard making the NPC sell missives to select which area you wanted to do. There was also the choice of a straight grind with the Steamwheedle (think it's them, been a while since I did those in Nagrand) as well as the alli/horde one with the trading post for various cosmetics.
Content gating/release is determined by the ones making the game. This makes it a double edged sword in the sense that they can deem when to release the new content and prolong life of the game; yet, on the flip side gives people who complete the content quickly a gap between patches.
As far as the dailies, you said it yourself that you agree with us, its the same mechanics just filling a blue bar. The difference in the lore is between text from 5 dailies of "fight them off," to the text from the mission table of "fight them off." Now, there's more to it than the simplified versions I gave, but it boils down to the same thing. I will admit there have been some variations from this, but usually limited to 1 per xpac (speaking of course of the flight races for Netherwing and Cloud Serpents).
From what I saw of his interviews, he did not say the dailies lacked lore and reason or had poor design. If he had I'd be even more confused about why they are continuing some of the trends in Legion that they have in WoD. Ion's most recent interview was talking specifically about how there has been a lack of storytelling compared to previous games/xpacs. That's not to say it's not there, but it's not how it used to be with 10-20 minute cutscenes as they've been reduced to 2-7 minutes and there is less in game cinematic storytelling in the vein of 20-30 minutes of RP in Old Stratholme. The reason he gave is that it's been lacking because from all studies they e done they found players want to jump back into the action and keep playing.

[wing5wong]

So I have to spend my currency to have the choice I always had before...

Sure, why not? Do you not want any aspect of the game to change, ever?

How about answer the question instead of making snide remarks.

I did answer your question. It wasnt "allow flying". Sorry that wasnt the right answer for you?

Yes but there is still just basic sense. Animals/vehicles in the air are faster than animals/vehicles on the ground. Logically that just makes sense if you understand basic physics. For a flying mount to be significantly slower than a ground mount doesn't make sense. Which was the original point.

How far do you take that? Do you want them to add different speeds for each mount? That would be chaotic and only further the problem.

There is no "basic sense" in a flying carpet.
Sure, different speeds for different mounts which offer different advantages., 60% flyers, 80% water striders, 100% ground. Would add to gameplay options. Nothing wrong with that.

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We get you didnt like the lore in WoD. It doesnt mean it wasnt there.

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What are the named mobs doing? Who are they? What's their significance? What am I doing specifically? Yes I am the commander of an army going against the iron horde. But what am I doing specifically in each area? What are these items I am clicking on? What are they doing? What am I disrupting exactly?

WoD is literally, go to this area, fill the blue bar, done. That's it. All that is required is to find a group on premades and go stand there like an idiot.

Please supply the storyline and explanations for all the mobs in shattered sun staging area. what were they doing? why did i have to kill things there?

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That's only specifically in Tanaan. Which I have already stated did improve upon the system a little bit.

But I don't really like Tanaan. So now what? The rest of Draenor is empty and the only thing to do is mob grinds. Or the apexis daily that gives basically nothing.

There was room for more quests, yes.