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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Give me strawberries that taste like, well strawberries.
    Be specific: the original woodland strawberries taste differently - so, do you want strawberries that taste like well, wild strawberries or like normal strawberries that are the result of hybridization and selective breeding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Thankfully, democracy is working here.
    If the goal of democracy is to keep people ignorant and subsidize the farmers. There is GMO-food sold in the EU - both for humans (and but normally not labelled as such - since that would scare people), and for animals.
    The animal food is as far as I remember allegedly for export-meat, but based on food scandals in EU (involving horse meat, glycol in wine etc) I wouldn't be surprised if some of the animals sold in EU for human consumption have been fed GMO-feed.

    However, the major promise of GMO-food seems to be 10-20 years away, like C4 rice (not to be confused with golden rice). Hopefully public opinion will have changed by then.

  2. #142
    Actually cross-breeding is less controlled.
    GMO is controlled in what genes are transferred.
    Cross breeding only by casual observation is considered acceptable if AT LEAST the desirable traits came across.
    No regard for anything else you aren't trying or, or can't observe.

    We have been doing crude manipulation for what must be hundreds if not thousands of years.
    Yet suddenly the controlled aspect of GMO is wrong.
    It is a stupid argument.
    Be concerned about the specific manipulations, sure.
    But not this immature and petty blanket statement that GMO is bad, just because.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by a77 View Post
    What do you need to do to be a Nobel laureates? It is ironic if they are all economists and have no background in biology or ethics.
    You could read the article:
    "Richard J. Roberts, one of two winners of the 1993 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, spearheaded the letter-writing effort to set the record straight."

    Wikipedia shows that he discovered the introns in eukaryotic organisms. (Which is actually and important discovery for understanding how organisms work; others have later worked on exactly how important they are.)

    There are a handful of economic prize winners in that list, but mostly physiology, chemistry, and physics - and peace laureates.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    The only really sensible concern I've heard so far was a legal one that essentially (supposedly) went like this: The patent on GMO food means that even if a few seed from a neighbor who uses it blow over to yours they can sue you. I'm not sure how or if at all accurate that is. Otherwise I haven't seen any reasonable opposition claims other than scientific illiteracy, despite me really wanting to tell you Americans that you can keep your high fructose corn syrup crap.
    This is much more of a legal issue than an issue with the safety of food.

    By the way, I'm American, and the biggest cause of obesity in this country is the amount that we eat, not what we eat. Sweeteners like HFCS contribute only indirectly, by making everything taste so damn good that we want more of it, regardless of how our stomachs feel.

    Everything in moderation, folks.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Every single domesticated plant was genetically modified through selective breeding over time. As such they're all gmo's. I don't think you understand the history of the human race very well. Dogs are GMO's. Cats are GMO's. Most of the food you eat is GMO's in some way shape or form. They just have the ability to affect those changes more quickly now.

    And the reason the crossing is a massive problem is the copyrighted genes. When a gmo is planted it inevitably is going to result in cross pollination with non-gmo crops of farmers who couldn't afford the cost of the gmo crops. This then leads to less non-gmo seeds being available and even the total extinction of non-gmo crops existing in the wild in some areas.
    Cross breeding and hybridization are not the same as gmo when used in conversation like this and by the people that have issues with it. You are blurring the lines on purpose for the purpose of your arguments. Gmo in the context of this thread are the ones genetically modified through lab techniques not modification through natural means.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by watatsuya View Post
    This is much more of a legal issue than an issue with the safety of food.

    By the way, I'm American, and the biggest cause of obesity in this country is the amount that we eat, not what we eat. Sweeteners like HFCS contribute only indirectly, by making everything taste so damn good that we want more of it, regardless of how our stomachs feel.

    Everything in moderation, folks.
    I'm guessing that American obesity is different from the rest of the world then? Because what you put in your mouth has a big effect on your health. A well-rounded diet is a HUGE part of losing weight. You can eat tons of food but still loose weight because without energy in your body you can't burn fat. That's why all these starvation diets are so shit.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    ^ don't bother I don't think vegas82 is able to grasp the difference.
    Oh he grasps it. He just chooses to use the governments definition to try to prove a point even though that point has nothing to do with what the person he replied to believes. I would hesitate to use the governments definition on anything myself. When they classified breeding a Duroc to a hamp pig the same as genetically splicing genes between species, not breeds, you can bet it was to blur the lines of conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by victork8 View Post
    I'm guessing that American obesity is different from the rest of the world then? Because what you put in your mouth has a big effect on your health. A well-rounded diet is a HUGE part of losing weight. You can eat tons of food but still loose weight because without energy in your body you can't burn fat. That's why all these starvation diets are so shit.
    Yeah the statement you replied to was obscenely ignorant. You can cut out sugar or more specifically high fructose corn syrup these days and eat the same amount of everything else and you will drop weight...guarenteed

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    And yet you have no response to my statement that the same form of hybridization continues naturally as gmo and non-gmo crops are planted next to each other. That is where people take issue and not with their sterile labs.
    Yeah actually I had a response but I guess u can't read. Breeds and varieties does not equal species or genetic modification for not naturally occurring pest/disease resistance. Give me an example in a food item(I personally have never ate a mule or liger and they don't have genetically modified disease resistance added anyway) where a naturally occurring hybridization cause a "child" seed to have rice/corn/not naturally occurring anti pest anti disease genes (for example) similar combination.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Bullshit, it's required to label foods containing even traces of GMO.
    Except that traces of allowed GMO-foods are excluded, as well as "non-food" GMO.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by victork8 View Post
    I'm guessing that American obesity is different from the rest of the world then? Because what you put in your mouth has a big effect on your health. A well-rounded diet is a HUGE part of losing weight. You can eat tons of food but still loose weight because without energy in your body you can't burn fat. That's why all these starvation diets are so shit.
    Yes, we have a huge subsidy on corn, which leads it to be an inexpensive sweetener used to cover up shit flavor. You can look at just about any product, including those that are not sweet, and odds are a corn byproduct will be an ingredient.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    And yet you have no response to my statement that the same form of hybridization continues naturally as gmo and non-gmo crops are planted next to each other. That is where people take issue and not with their sterile labs.
    Additionally to above, that is where they have issue with but you are stating there is no difference between that and preexisting natural hybridization. The gene manipulation make it different if you are not a believer in gmos. You cannot argue that it is the same unless you first convince them that nothing is wrong with gmos in the first place. You are completely skipping a step to convince them.
    Last edited by Bauglir; 2016-07-01 at 06:43 PM.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Bauglir View Post
    Yeah actually I had a response but I guess u can't read. Breeds and varieties does not equal species or genetic modification for not naturally occurring pest/disease resistance. Give me an example in a food item(I personally have never ate a mule or liger and they don't have genetically modified disease resistance added anyway) where a naturally occurring hybridization cause a "child" seed to have rice/corn/not naturally occurring anti pest anti disease genes (for example) similar combination.
    Not naturally occurring resistance occurring using natural methods? Considering that all naturally occurring resistances have evolved and genes in nature can jump from one plant to a completely different one (very rare - but it has happened) I don't know what you mean with "not naturally occurring".

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Not naturally occurring resistance occurring using natural methods? Considering that all naturally occurring resistances have evolved and genes in nature can jump from one plant to a completely different one (very rare - but it has happened) I don't know what you mean with "not naturally occurring".
    Hehe at least one person caught that. It was intentional. I myself am a fence rider on it but Vegas is trying to convince that gmo natural hybridization is not a problem because hybridization has been occurring for million of years. He neglecting the part where they think gmos are wrong and why in the first place.

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    A gmo hybrid will contain some similarities from both parent plants so until they are convinced gmos are safe they will never be convinced gmo hybridization is ok.

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    And your one point with naturally occurring jumping plants is also not effective because it's just that naturally occurring. Until they are convinced that the not naturally occurring is safe the rest doesn't matter

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by victork8 View Post
    Looks at American people. Most are fat. Don't want to be fat. Don't want your food. We're not starving.
    We're fat because we eat too much junk food, not because of GMO foods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    If the EU wanted GMO it would use it themselves, I as a consumer do not want it.
    Then don't eat it. That's no reason to actually push to ban such things.

  15. #155
    GMO arguments are rubbish, shit, and garbage.

    Dear "Scienfuckingtist,"

    #1, Why can't we label GMO foods? Until that's allowed, and at this point accompanied by an explanation, there's 0% chance anyone sane would accept your argument.

    This isn't because we're scared of GMO, this is because for some reason you're not willing to label them and won't tell us why. That makes you a dipshit mr "scientist."

    Your continued decline to even label them, which wouldn't have any affect on anything at all, demonstrates you're an untrustworthy twat. Argument ends at this point.

    #2, because scientist are so fucking dumb they can't see their own pieces of shit nature: Why you'd ever beg us to proceed with GMO promotions while we're still paying people to not farm at all because the economic system makes no sense, while we're being sold seeds that are literally bred to fail to reproduce themselves so the seeds have to be purchased each planting, while there's some kind of arbitrary and unspoken assertion that this purposefully seedless genetic condition wouldn't get passed on to normal plants and suddenly most major crops and eventually the entire world becomes full of plants who won't produce seeds and all human life becomes extinguished, is asinine.

    I respect your attempts to eliminate humanity for the greater good, but they ain't going down with a fight, so the more you preach about GMO the greater the chance its proponents can finally be detected through information networking combined with field research and consequently neutralized. To save us all. Etc.

    #3, I don't fucking care, but you're not getting me money, so fuck you gmo.

    #4, I'm lazy and I love to hate everyone because I don't know what's legal to hate anymore, but I only ever hated people who deserved it until now, now I just hate everyone lol

    -The end.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by victork8 View Post
    You want to sell us your shit. We don't want your shit. That should be it, shouldnt it? Who cares if it's safe or not? Why this obsession with selling GMO crops to Europe?
    Then the solution is simple, don't buy it. However, that does not mean you should prevent others who may want it, from buying it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mejis View Post
    GMOs=fine.
    Pesticides=bad.

    It's that freaking simple. It's the pesticides that are poisonous to us, not the GMOs.
    Organic foods often use far more pesticides than GMO foods.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Well that's for us to decide not you.
    And we get to call you oppressive authoritarians in the process. We get to point out the willful ignorance, and compare them to people who swear vaccines are dangerous.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    You guys can cry and be stupid all you want not really my problem.
    I'm not the one who is willfully ignorant about GMO crops. I'll stick with science, thanks.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    And we get to call you oppressive authoritarians in the process. We get to point out the willful ignorance, and compare them to people who swear vaccines are dangerous.
    Now that's a slippery slope to use as an argument
    1.) vaccines can cause side affects up to and including death
    2.) vaccines there really is no alternative form of immunization. So the benefits way out way the risks
    3 there is alternative forms of crop seed that are not gmo
    4 even if you agree with no health concerns for gmos you can still have concerns over the implications for small farmers

    It's not a this equals that equation.

  20. #160
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yes, we have a huge subsidy on corn, which leads it to be an inexpensive sweetener used to cover up shit flavor. You can look at just about any product, including those that are not sweet, and odds are a corn byproduct will be an ingredient.
    Pretty much.

    Fructose works differently then Glucose on your brain.
    Fructose is a weaker suppressant for your part of the brain that controls hunger.

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