Donald Trump Vows To Commit War Crimes, Be More Like ISIS

[Deleted]

War criminal doesn't mean from today, hell they could be the a war criminal from the Vietnam war.

Yeah, you can get secrets out of an old man about an event that ended 40+ years ago while he is off his tits on a zombie drug. You really have thought things through, I wish I was as smart as you.

[Northy]

America must defeat the unmitigated avarice of ISIS with hugs.

[satimy]

Not so much defending torture, but I think it depends on what one is trying to gain out of the process. I remember watching a Delta Force training video, and the early comments from the instructors talking about the initial weeding out process was "We don't need to get in people's faces and yell, we have better means to break you". I think if it's a case of "Give me the password" Torture has a better chance of working. Give me a list of names of other terrorists, you're just going to get a bunch of made up names.

If it's a well established fact that it doesn't work period, then why would anyone do it? This wouldn't be up for debate, because there would be no need in doing it, because everyone knows it doesn't work.

Because people aren't "good". Humans are sick fucks that's why we torture. Also if the CIA came out and said that torture didn't work they would look foolish, and the CIA isn't foolish

[Noxx79]

America must defeat the unmitigated avarice of ISIS with hugs.

You have to kill everybody or kill nobody. There's no inbetween.

[Edge-]

Also if the CIA came out and said that torture didn't work they would look foolish, and the CIA isn't foolish

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/...esnt-work.html

Spoiler alert: They already have said it doesn't work.

[Mad_Murdock]

Because people aren't "good". Humans are sick fucks that's why we torture. Also if the CIA came out and said that torture didn't work they would look foolish, and the CIA isn't foolish

Maybe, but I don't think the CIA and other groups torture just because they enjoy the smell of burnt flesh. And if reports like the ones listed above http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-...210-story.html are correct. The CIA and other groups knows that it is a worthless endeavor. They don't even need to admit its true to the public, I believe they would move on to something they does work.

[Noxx79]

I wish you were because you're not understanding what I'm saying, and this would go much faster if you were as smart as me.

I'm saying you take someone who doesn't want to comply, and someone the world can afford to lose due to their horrific crimes. You have them go under the effects of the drug that could potentially melt their brain, and see if you're able to actually get information out of them. The older the better as you can actually piece together if what they're saying is true or not. That way if you find it being successful you can use it and implement it on terrorists and war criminals today and get the much needed information.

Understand?

So now not only are you advocating torture, you're advocating human experimentation. I'm sure you'll be the first to volunteer for the good of the country?

[Deleted]

I wish you were because you're not understanding what I'm saying, and this would go much faster if you were as smart as me.

I'm saying you take someone who doesn't want to comply, and someone the world can afford to lose due to their horrific crimes. You have them go under the effects of the drug that could potentially melt their brain, and see if you're able to actually get information out of them. The older the better as you can actually piece together if what they're saying is true or not. That way if you find it being successful you can use it and implement it on terrorists and war criminals today and get the much needed information.

Understand?

So you want to get the criminal to admit things the interrogator already know, things he is already in prison for.......

[Independent voter]

Torturing an individual to get information when you're unable to verify what he says is silly.

If you have 80% of the truth and you need to fill in the missing 20% then it's viable, assuming the victim doesn't know you know the 80%.

If you have three victims, you can keep them separate and torture them until their stories match.

Torture is situational. Civilizations wouldn't have tortured people for thousands of years if it wasn't viable.

[Deleted]

Yeah, you can get secrets out of an old man about an event that ended 40+ years ago while he is off his tits on a zombie drug. You really have thought things through, I wish I was as smart as you.

everyone knows you get secrets out of old people with biscuits.

[Derah]

If torture never works then people wouldn't have done it throughout history.

This is a fallacious argument.

If that was true, diet pill companies would have gone bankrupt years ago. Their fucking pills don't work, you wanna lose weight? Go on a diet, and do some excercise. Swallowing a magic pill is not gonna turn you into a super-model. Magic pills that let you eat like a pig, but still look like a greek statue DON'T work, but people still buy them by the bucketloads.

For hundreds of years, ancient tribes believed that eating the hearts and balls of your enemies would make you stronger. It didn't work but that didn't stop thousands of tribes from all parts of the globe from trying it at one point or another.

For decades it was thought that if you ask an undercover police officer if they are a cop, they're obligated to tell you. Its not true, but believe it or not, people STILL attempt to do this when soliciting sex or drugs from undercover agents, believing that they're perfectly safe so long as they ask first "are you a cop?". Hundreds of thousands of people arrested, and people STILL believe this shit works.

For almost 200 years people have believed that searing the meat "seals in the juices" creating better, softer, moister meat. Wait, you think that searing a steak magically makes it impermeable? No, what actually happens is that the Maillard reaction creates the brown crust which is just really fucking delicious, and makes it taste better. That's it. Doesn't stop people from still yammering about searing their steaks because they want them nice and juicy...... then they overcook them and they have to eat a dried piece of crap.

I could list you examples all day, but the bottom line is: Throughout history, people have tried INNUMERABLE amounts of things because they think they work. Even when shown irrefutable evidence that they don't, they still try it, why? Because humans are stubborn, and stupid.

But mostly stupid.

So what? If it works only 1 time out of 100 and only saves 1 life it would still be worth it.

What would be more effective? A method that works 1 out of 100 times, and only saves 1 life? OR a method that works 9 out of 10 times, and saves thousands of lives?

Torturing is just an excuse of violent people to indulge on their violent urges. It has nothing to do with information gathering.

Science has proven times beyond counting that information obtained during duress is unreliable information. Specially if it comes from radicalist terrorists. Dude, they don't give a shit about their own lives. They're willing to blow themselves up for a cause. You seriously think they give two fucks about the pain you can inflict on them?

Here's a dosage of reality for ya: In Real Life, as an interrogation technique for extracting actual usable intelligence, its efficacy varies wildly: Under torture, some will tell the truth, others will lie just to spite their torturers, others will clam up under poor treatment, and still others will say ANYTHING to make the torture stop. This last is a major problem with torture; it is a well-known means to extract false confessions from people, being frequently used for such purposes, and as such any intelligence gathered in this way is highly unreliable, doubly so because the torture victim will often be playing directly into what they believe that their torturer WANTS them to say. There are also cases where the victims tells the truth but the torture continues anyway because their tormentors don't believe them... until, of course, they come up with a convincing lie... just to make the pain stop.

[Noxx79]

If I was a war criminal guilty of killing innocents sure.



Things like his social security number (if a us citizen), where he lived as a child, his parents names, etc. We would see if under the drug that removes your free will if you can still get these answers out of people, then we could apply them to current terrorists/captured war criminals.

I don't know how to break this down any easier for you.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight... OK

We'll I don't like debating with delusional people, so that's the end of this.

[nonameelf]

Unfortunately a good portion of the US public, and apparently a lot of people on these forums, just plain don't care about international treaties that the US has agreed to.

[breadisfunny]

If I was a war criminal guilty of killing innocents sure.



Things like his social security number (if a us citizen), where he lived as a child, his parents names, etc. We would see if under the drug that removes your free will if you can still get these answers out of people, then we could apply them to current terrorists/captured war criminals.

I don't know how to break this down any easier for you.

probably because your WRONG.

[xuros]

You do realize that most of the information people have received through torture was falsified, right? They will tell you what you want to hear in hopes that they can live or die quickly.

How do you know "most" of it was false information? Considering most countries dont kill prisoners of war anymore the they will tell you what you want to hear in hopes that they can live or die quickly. doesnt really apply to things anymore.

[Sunseeker]

Title says it all. This comes from the man that gets its military advice from tv.

Maybe he's got a waterboarding fetish, maybe it's the only thing that'll get him going these days is to be nearly drowned by one of his daughters.

[Derah]

Civilizations wouldn't have tortured people for thousands of years if it wasn't viable.

Read the rest of my post.

Civilizations have eaten human hearts for centuries because they thought it made them stronger. Civilizations have used leeches as cures for all sicknesses and ailments because they thought it was effective, and did it for hundreds of years because they thought it was effective. Civilizations have swallowed magic diet pills that allegedly let you eat like a pig and still look like a supermodel for decades now, because they think it works.

Have any of the above actually worked? No? I rest my case.

[WintersLegion]

This is a fallacious argument.

If that was true, diet pill companies would have gone bankrupt years ago. Their fucking pills don't work, you wanna lose weight? Go on a diet, and do some excercise. Swallowing a magic pill is not gonna turn you into a super-model. Magic pills that let you eat like a pig, but still look like a greek statue DON'T work, but people still buy them by the bucketloads.

For hundreds of years, ancient tribes believed that eating the hearts and balls of your enemies would make you stronger. It didn't work but that didn't stop thousands of tribes from all parts of the globe from trying it at one point or another.

For decades it was thought that if you ask an undercover police officer if they are a cop, they're obligated to tell you. Its not true, but believe it or not, people STILL attempt to do this when soliciting sex or drugs from undercover agents, believing that they're perfectly safe so long as they ask first "are you a cop?". Hundreds of thousands of people arrested, and people STILL believe this shit works.

For almost 200 years people have believed that searing the meat "seals in the juices" creating better, softer, moister meat. Wait, you think that searing a steak magically makes it impermeable? No, what actually happens is that the Maillard reaction creates the brown crust which is just really fucking delicious, and makes it taste better. That's it. Doesn't stop people from still yammering about searing their steaks because they want them nice and juicy...... then they overcook them and they have to eat a dried piece of crap.

I could list you examples all day, but the bottom line is: Throughout history, people have tried INNUMERABLE amounts of things because they think they work. Even when shown irrefutable evidence that they don't, they still try it, why? Because humans are stubborn, and stupid.

But mostly stupid.



What would be more effective? A method that works 1 out of 100 times, and only saves 1 life? OR a method that works 9 out of 10 times, and saves thousands of lives?

Torturing is just an excuse of violent people to indulge on their violent urges. It has nothing to do with information gathering.

Science has proven times beyond counting that information obtained during duress is unreliable information. Specially if it comes from radicalist terrorists. Dude, they don't give a shit about their own lives. They're willing to blow themselves up for a cause. You seriously think they give two fucks about the pain you can inflict on them?

Here's a dosage of reality for ya: In Real Life, as an interrogation technique for extracting actual usable intelligence, its efficacy varies wildly: Under torture, some will tell the truth, others will lie just to spite their torturers, others will clam up under poor treatment, and still others will say ANYTHING to make the torture stop. This last is a major problem with torture; it is a well-known means to extract false confessions from people, being frequently used for such purposes, and as such any intelligence gathered in this way is highly unreliable, doubly so because the torture victim will often be playing directly into what they believe that their torturer WANTS them to say. There are also cases where the victims tells the truth but the torture continues anyway because their tormentors don't believe them... until, of course, they come up with a convincing lie... just to make the pain stop.

In fact the Spanish Inquisition used the fact that you can get them to say what every you want to get rich. When someone was accused of being a heretic if the person confessed to being a heretic the inquisition was able to seize they persons property and do what they wanted with it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Give me 30 minutes alone with someone with nothing more than a sewing needle, lemon juice, and a box cutter and I can get whatever information out of them you want.

Far more painful torture has been used and what they got was a bunch of lies told to get the torture to stop.

[breadisfunny]

Then explain how please.

- - - Updated - - -



Because being "the good guys" is getting thousands of innocent people killed, and we're tired of it.

well i would except you've been told dozens of times already why.