No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Bun-Bun]

Sure, why not? Do you not want any aspect of the game to change, ever?



I did answer your question. It wasnt "allow flying". Sorry that wasnt the right answer for you?

No, you did not answer the question.

Why does content need to be consumed exactly how Blizzard (the devs) envision it? Flight doesn't make anything easier (or faster, because everything is gated). But it does change the perspective and the way the content is consumed, which is exactly one of the main reasons they give for removing flight (and changing a bunch of other things).

So how exactly is that so important that its worth alienating customers over it?

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We get you didnt like the lore in WoD. It doesnt mean it wasnt there.

That's now what the ... ... ... was about. I will let you figure it out on your own.

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The choice is the mission table that lets you decide to do the solo/group daily and receive rep for the appropriate faction. Later on, that was improved by Blizzard making the NPC sell missives to select which area you wanted to do. There was also the choice of a straight grind with the Steamwheedle (think it's them, been a while since I did those in Nagrand) as well as the alli/horde one with the trading post for various cosmetics.

A choice between a bigger amount or a lesser amount isn't a choice at all.

And great, I have to spend currency to have choice.

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Sure, why not? Do you not want any aspect of the game to change, ever?

Removal of options is almost always a bad thing. No, I don't want options to be removed.

[Dhrizzle]

Never said it wasn't. If you're not going to read what I write then why even bother replying?

You were saying that TBC and WotLK didn't have content that was "artificially" gated, I was saying the gating was just as artificial as anything else, you just prefer not using that word because it was something you enjoyed.

It's the exact same mechanics, just now filling a boring blue bar instead of quests that actually explain what you're doing. Killing mobs, collecting items, using things... its exactly the same.

And its all the same through the zones, its just apexis. There is nothing new to unlock and zero immersion in what you are accomplishing.

That's the thing though, it isn't the exact same mechanics. Different areas have different rewards for what you kill/collect/use, in one area you may favour killing the regular mobs, in another you might go for the harder mobs, in another you might prefer to kill the minimal number of mobs and click the sparkly things. Then there's the different special mechanics, like the brain-slug thing in Lost Veil Anzu, crossing into the Nether in Pillars of Fate, using a flamer on the trees in Everbloom Wilds or using a Rylakinator 3000 in Darktide Roost. Those or all things you can discover through experimenting (or on WoWhead I guess,) and I found it vastly more interesting than having a list telling me exactly how many of what thing I have to kill/collect/use.

Now you're changing the topic. And I disagree, flight does not make anything easier. Just takes out the tedium. Go read my earlier posts I am not repeating it again.

And I disagree, because completing objectives is way easier when you have a tool that allows you to ignore the majority of hostile NPCs and terrain. You might consider doing anything that isn't directly increasing your power or completing a quest to be "tedious," but in an open world game I expect there to be some degree of traveling and overcoming obstacles before tackling the set objectives.

But the question unanswered, why is it absolutely necessary that content be consumed exactly how Blizzard envisioned?

Because a large part of game design is giving players an objective and the tools to meet that objective. Giving too powerful a tool, such as flight in this example, restricts how Blizzard can design content because the player has an easy solution to hand.

[Bun-Bun]

From what I saw of his interviews, he did not say the dailies lacked lore and reason or had poor design. If he had I'd be even more confused about why they are continuing some of the trends in Legion that they have in WoD. Ion's most recent interview was talking specifically about how there has been a lack of storytelling compared to previous games/xpacs. That's not to say it's not there, but it's not how it used to be with 10-20 minute cutscenes as they've been reduced to 2-7 minutes and there is less in game cinematic storytelling in the vein of 20-30 minutes of RP in Old Stratholme. The reason he gave is that it's been lacking because from all studies they e done they found players want to jump back into the action and keep playing.

Cutscenes are a different matter. They pull the player out of the game. It ruins immersion for a lot of people.

Last June Ion stated in a interview that the apexis dailies were poorly executed. He said the underlying mechanics weren't necessarily bad but that it probably wasn't the best plan to just throw them all out there at release with nothing supporting them (lore, quests, reason or reward to do them) and only able to do 1 a day. From that they improved upon it with Tanaan, which they were successful in improving upon them. More choice, more reward, and a bit more lore.

[Dhrizzle]

My guess then, at the last tier patch. Since considering how Blizzard always did it, the wait from last tier until next expansion is pretty much half the time of the lifetime of the expansion.

I think they said there would be a content patch released after the flight-enabling patch, so if flight unlocks in 7.2 expect to have something to do in 7.3

Obviously this is subject to change and not a promise in any way, but from the way they've been keeping a lot more quiet with this expansion I think it's a pretty safe bet they didn't announce that until they were fairly certain that's how the expansion will go.

[Bun-Bun]

You were saying that TBC and WotLK didn't have content that was "artificially" gated, I was saying the gating was just as artificial as anything else, you just prefer not using that word because it was something you enjoyed.

No, I said TBC and WotLK didn't suffer from "those" issues and were not excessively gated/poorly designed. Literally everything was gated in WoD, right down to gathering mats.

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That's the thing though, it isn't the exact same mechanics. Different areas have different rewards for what you kill/collect/use, in one area you may favour killing the regular mobs, in another you might go for the harder mobs, in another you might prefer to kill the minimal number of mobs and click the sparkly things. Then there's the different special mechanics, like the brain-slug thing in Lost Veil Anzu, crossing into the Nether in Pillars of Fate, using a flamer on the trees in Everbloom Wilds or using a Rylakinator 3000 in Darktide Roost. Those or all things you can discover through experimenting (or on WoWhead I guess,) and I found it vastly more interesting than having a list telling me exactly how many of what thing I have to kill/collect/use.

Still killing shit and collectiong/using shit. Sounds like you want a open world sandbox game.

[satimy]

[QUOTE=Dhrizzle;41174189]I think they said there would be a content patch released after the flight-enabling patch, so if flight unlocks in 7.2 expect to have something to do in 7.3

Obviously this is subject to change and not a promise in any way, but from the way they've been keeping a lot more quiet with this expansion I think it's a pretty safe bet they didn't announce that until they were fairly certain that's how the expansion will go.[/QUOTE
The game will tank to fast, they don't want another WOD flying will most likely be available 2nd patch. Then next expansion this stupid experiment will end and we will be able to fly when we choose

[Bun-Bun]

Because a large part of game design is giving players an objective and the tools to meet that objective. Giving too powerful a tool, such as flight in this example, restricts how Blizzard can design content because the player has an easy solution to hand.

And making content annoying just drives players away.

You still didn't answer the question. Flight removes tedium, make individual tasks faster. Still have to kill the mobs and do the tasks, flight doesn't do that for me.

Why is it so important that players consume content exactly the way the devs want them to? Does an artist stand next to their painting and demand every viewer see exactly what the artist intended?

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The game will tank to fast, they don't want another WOD flying will most likely be available 2nd patch. Then next expansion this stupid experiment will end and we will be able to fly when we choose

I hope so. Can't wait to be done with this nonsense.

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There was room for more quests, yes.

Oh good, so you can agree that Draenor was lacking.

[Dhrizzle]

What are the named mobs doing? Who are they? What's their significance? What am I doing specifically? Yes I am the commander of an army going against the iron horde. But what am I doing specifically in each area? What are these items I am clicking on? What are they doing? What am I disrupting exactly?

WoD is literally, go to this area, fill the blue bar, done. That's it. All that is required is to find a group on premades and go stand there like an idiot.

I liked the story as it was unfolding from the intro event through shadowmoon. After that it became very disjointed and lacking.

The Pit: The Blackrock forces based out of the Pit in Gorgrond make up the bulk of the Iron Horde army. If we crush them on their home soil, the rest of the Iron Horde will have little hope of standing against us. If you choose the battle, bring friends. The Blackrock won't be defeated easily.

Iron Siegeworks: Iron Horde war machines are being shipped onto battlefields by the dozens, and our forces are struggling to hold their ground. Most of these machines seem to be originating from the Iron Siegeworks in eastern Frostfire Ridge. A strategic attack to disrupt and dismantle the Iron Horde at the siegeworks could be just what we need to turn the tide of the war.
Also has a garrison quest chain attached.

Magnarok: Colossal magnaron, gronn, and other stone monstrosities have been threatening our outposts in the west. Most seem to originate from Magnarok in Frostfire Ridge. If we strike at them at their home, we should be able to force them back. It's risky, but it may be our best move. While you're there, see if you can recover any of our supplies.

Stonefury Cliffs: Bloodmaul ogres from Frostfire Ridge have been ambushing trade routes throughout the continent, and are putting captured soldiers to work in their slag mines. Bodrick Grey has requested the rescue of friendly troops that have been taken prisoner in the main Bloodmaul compound at Stonefury Cliffs.
Also has a garrison quest chain attached.

Gorian Proving Grounds: The ogres at the Gorian Proving Grounds are rousing champions to turn against our forces in Nagrand. A decisive assault on their training grounds should prevent them from mustering the forces they need to stand against us, and will help remind them that we are not an enemy they want to make.
Also has a garrison quest chain attached.

Broken Precipice: Massive ogron have been battering our frontlines, and no matter how many we down, there seem to be more to replace them. Most of these ogron appear to be coming from the Broken Precipice, deep in western Nagrand. If we're to stand a chance in the coming battles, we need to find a way to remove these ogron from the battlefield.
Also has a garrison quest chain attached.

Mok'gol Watchpost: Warsong raiders out of Mok'gol Watchpost have been terrorizing anything and everything not behind a tall wall. We've warned travelers not to stray out alone, but many don't listen. If we were to launch an assault on Mok'gol Watchpost, we would almost certainly put the Warsong back on the defensive, restricting most of their riders to Nagrand.
Also has a garrison quest chain attached.

Darktide Roost: There's been a resurgence of rylaks on the battlefield in our skirmishes against the Iron Horde. If we don't stop them at the source, we'll quickly lose control of the roads and be pushed back into our outposts. The most likely source of these additional rylaks is in southeastern Shadowmoon Valley, at Darktide Roost. If we move quickly, we should still have time to get ahead of the problem.
Also has a garrison quest chain attached.

Pillars of Fate: Remnants of the Shadowmoon clan continue to operate out of the peaks on the eastern border of Spires of Arak. Bodrick Grey is concerned at their proximity to the garrison, and has put out a request that we thin their forces as soon as possible.

Socrethar's Rise: Recent reports suggest a notable rise of activity by Sargerei forces at Socrethar's Rise in southern Shadowmoon Valley. Socrathar's disciples pose a threat to draenei and our garrison alike. We need to quell them at our soonest convenience.
Also has a garrison quest chain attached.

Lost Veil Anzu: Some of our best scouts have gone missing in the vicinity of the lost ruins of Veil Anzu. Bodrick Grey has requested any available resources be dispatched to identify the threat and see if any of our men yet remain alive within the ruins.

Skettis: We've been receiving regular reports of birdmen from the south ambushing and burning caravans along the main roads. Guards from our outposts are requesting that we launch a counter attack against the main presence of Adherents of Rukhmar at Skettis in Spires of Arak.

Heart of Shattrath: Sargerei forces from deep in Shattrath have grown stronger and bolder by the day. We can no longer risk ignoring the threat that they pose. Bring allies if you wish to face the Sargerei so deep within the city.

Shattrath Harbour: Shattrath City is in the hands of Sargerei forces under the leadership of the traitor Exarch, Socrethar. Members of the Sha'tari Defense have been requesting aid against the Shadow Council forces in the eastern portions of the city.
Also has a garrison quest chain attached.

Everbloom Wilds: Botani and the plant monstrosities they conjure have been slowly encroaching on our outposts in the north. For every plant we kill, new ones seem to rise in its place. Bodrick Grey has put together a plan for striking at the heart of their lands, in Everbloom Wilds. He thinks this will draw them back into the wilds of Gorgrond, giving us more room to maneuver around them.

If you can't figure out what's going on from doing the leveling content, the garrison campaigns, reading the Apexis daily text and just looking around the areas and watching what the mobs are doing then there's no helping you.

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Still killing shit and collectiong/using shit. Sounds like you want a open world sandbox game.

Yeah, no matter what WoW is going to be killing shit and collecting shit. I guess leveling through Elwynn is the same as raiding Mythic HFC 'cos you're just killing shit.

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And making content annoying just drives players away.

You still didn't answer the question. Flight removes tedium, make individual tasks faster. Still have to kill the mobs and do the tasks, flight doesn't do that for me.

It's your preference that tasks should be completed as quickly and efficiently as possible, and this requires a tool (flight) that allows you ignore any obstacles between you and the things that directly move you towards your goal. The fact that you find it "tedious" to engage with the other parts of the world doesn't make it objectively "tedious." I found dailies where you just had to snipe a shopping list of mobs/items from your flying mount to be tedious. It was fine when I was raiding and it was a chore to help me get enchants and gold for that activity, but when I quit raiding the dailies lost their point which is why I quit MoP so early in the expansion.

Why is it so important that players consume content exactly the way the devs want them to?

Because it's the game designers job to create a game for people to play? Are you saying that every player should be given infinite power and any restrictions should be their personal choice, just because you seem to have a problem with being "forced" to play a game the way the developers have designed it? Martin Fury shirts for all so we can solo Mythic Raids if we so desire?

Does an artist stand next to their painting and demand every viewer see exactly what the artist intended?

I'm pretty sure an artist produces one painting and gets everyone to look at it. They don't often produce art-kits that allow people to add different pieces so it becomes less "tedious" for them to look at.

[Bun-Bun]

The Pit: The Blackrock forces based out of the Pit in Gorgrond make up the bulk of the Iron Horde army. If we crush them on their home soil, the rest of the Iron Horde will have little hope of standing against us. If you choose the battle, bring friends. The Blackrock won't be defeated easily.

One small paragraph for each area, that's it. So i'm going to the pit to kill shit. great.

What are these scrolls I'm burning in Kra'nak? What are there significance?

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Yeah, no matter what WoW is going to be killing shit and collecting shit. I guess leveling through Elwynn is the same as raiding Mythic HFC 'cos you're just killing shit.

Right, but its everything else that goes along with it (the art, the lore, etc.)

I made the comparison because people seem to think this blue bar filling up is somehow mechanically superior to previous dailies.

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It's your preference that tasks should be completed as quickly and efficiently as possible, and this requires a tool (flight) that allows you ignore any obstacles between you and the things that directly move you towards your goal. The fact that you find it "tedious" to engage with the other parts of the world doesn't make it objectively "tedious." I found dailies where you just had to snipe a shopping list of mobs/items from your flying mount to be tedious. It was fine when I was raiding and it was a chore to help me get enchants and gold for that activity, but when I quit raiding the dailies lost their point which is why I quit MoP so early in the expansion.

Lack of reason to do content is poor design. Removing flight doesn't fix that.

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Because it's the game designers job to create a game for people to play? Are you saying that every player should be given infinite power and any restrictions should be their personal choice, just because you seem to have a problem with being "forced" to play a game the way the developers have designed it? Martin Fury shirts for all so we can solo Mythic Raids if we so desire?



I'm pretty sure an artist produces one painting and gets everyone to look at it. They don't often produce art-kits that allow people to add different pieces so it becomes less "tedious" for them to look at.

You completely missed the point.

Yes by asking "Why is it so important that players consume content exactly the way the devs want them to?" I am saying players should be given infinite power... ffs.

And I can't comprehend your last sentence. I am simply dumbfounded that people can not answer this simple question.

[Maudib]

No, I just understand how people react in a multiplayer environment - they will always favour the most efficient path/method to achieve a common goal even at the expense of enjoyment.
The game is literally full of examples where it happens or is controlled.

But by your very admission.. you do not favor it. So what's up with that?

[Deleted]

if you want to argue travel times, take actual travel time and gameplay into consideration. Im sure you can skip beyond 10 minutes, theres nearly 2 hours of content there. What am i pretending? This is me doing the quests.

And after 4-6 weeks into legion when youre done with the content you will be spend more time on flypathes for worldquests then actually playing the game....

[Dhrizzle]

One small paragraph for each area, that's it. So i'm going to the pit to kill shit. great.

What are these scrolls I'm burning in Kra'nak? What are there significance?

Yes, you're going to [a place] to [kill shit] because [of reasons]. Every quest is the same if you just don't care about the lore.

And seriously, you see a bunch of bird people being trained in the art of fel magic, using ritual circles, and you have to ask what the scrolls they have are for? If you care so little about the lore it might as well be biscuit recipes.

Right, but its everything else that goes along with it (the art, the lore, etc.)

So all the content is the same apart from the art and the lore?

I made the comparison because people seem to think this blue bar filling up is somehow mechanically superior to previous dailies.

Well yes, I find that it is, just like I find raids (even LFR) to be mechanically superior to a lot of the low-level quests.

Lack of reason to do content is poor design. Removing flight doesn't fix that.

There is a reason to do the content, it's an obstacle between you and your objective. Just because it isn't on your "things to do" list and doesn't reward you with bigger numbers or pretty pixels doesn't mean you need a way to skip it.

You completely missed the point.

Yes by asking "Why is it so important that players consume content exactly the way the devs want them to?" I am saying players should be given infinite power... ffs.

And I can't comprehend your last sentence. I am simply dumbfounded that people can not answer this simple question.

Then what are you actually trying to say? It seems like you want the ability to make content as easy as possible, then allow players to restrict themselves based on your preferences, does that only apply to using flight to skip content in the world, or do you think it should apply to all forms of content?

[wing5wong]

A choice between a bigger amount or a lesser amount isn't a choice at all.

And great, I have to spend currency to have choice.

It is a choice. you just dont want to make the choice seemingly.
The currency adds further choice. Choosing that you dont want to spend currency again, another choice.

Removal of options is almost always a bad thing. No, I don't want options to be removed.

Feeling like you can never remove something that you feel isnt working, or agrees with your future ideas of the game is also, almost always a bad thing.

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And after 4-6 weeks into legion when youre done with the content you will be spend more time on flypathes for worldquests then actually playing the game....

We've already covered this, with a time captioned video of me doing dailies.
Flight path time has been exaggerated so much in this thread its not funny.
Add in a flight whistle and you cut out half of your ground based travel

[Mafic]

And after 4-6 weeks into legion when youre done with the content you will be spend more time on flypathes for worldquests then actually playing the game....

This is too complicated for some people to understand. Sometimes the wall of reality has to hit them before they can recalibrate their worldview.

[wing5wong]

8-12 weeks in im really hoping I can look forward to my rewards arriving direct to the mailbox

[Zalamander]

8-12 weeks in im really hoping I can look forward to my rewards arriving direct to the mailbox

Oh they will you know. Inventory full so you get everything sent by postmaster by then.

[Dhrizzle]

8-12 weeks in im really hoping I can look forward to my rewards arriving direct to the mailbox

After 6 months upgrades should be applied directly to my character so I can see the changes on the armoury without the tedium of logging in and pressing buttons.

[Deleted]

The thing which I just cannot understand: Since when PvE became all about player vs. terrain / jup & run bullshit instead of us being heroes fighting monsters?

No-flying emphasizes player vs. terrain more than player vs. monsters.

[Bun-Bun]

Yes, you're going to [a place] to [kill shit] because [of reasons]. Every quest is the same if you just don't care about the lore.

So all the content is the same apart from the art and the lore?

You basically just said yourself all content is the same. Even between MMOs, its the assets of the game that make them different, its the assets of the specific instances that make them different. Other than that its the same. Without lore, its just different art assets. Between all the bonus areas in Tanaan, you're doing the exact same thing with varying scale of difficulty (soloable vs group): killing and clicking shit to fill a blue bar.

[Replica]

well here comes the shitshow.