[BEAST MASTERY]Legion Alpha Discussion

[AdrianCC100]

They also removed the "Yelling" that your character does when using Dire Beast. It's now a whistle which I think is much better

[Lightwysh]

They also removed the "Yelling" that your character does when using Dire Beast. It's now a whistle which I think is much better

The whistle is annoying after a few minutes.

[Kainan]

The whistle is annoying after a few minutes.

Yeah very true its just as bad as the yelling lol

[Tannon]

Not sure how yelling shoud fix anything. Instead, how about you bring your suggestions forward to the crowd so we can have a discussion about the spec rather than spewing around hate and adding even more non constructive feedback in this thread.

They are yelling out of frustration, and I don't blame them in the slightest. And as I said they are (like many of us) are frustrated, I don't see how it's "spewing around hate". That kind of hyper exaggerated reply just begets more frustration.

We are all on the same side here, we just want our energy clean, internet fast and Hunters fixed. That and we have been giving feedback/suggestions since Alpha, and whether we have constructively posted or rage against the machine, our feedback seemed to fall on deaf ears. So when they finally do fix something, but only 1/2 fix it with no explanation... I can't except people to be anything less than exasperated.

[Alvito]

The whistle is annoying after a few minutes.

Yeah, I have never liked it and now you use Dire Beast so much more it gets old quick.

[Creatinebrah]

just started leveling a hunter, we have any idea what our main stat will be?

[Sim]

Mastery...

[Creatinebrah]

Mastery...

Ok thanks...

[Grimbolt]

edit: Never mind.

[betahunter]

Just thought I'd leave my thoughts on BM again after playing it for several days. This is mostly PvP focused.

Really don't like where the class is headed at all, we've lost too much, we have no cooldowns to watch out for (hello Focus Fire), no strong focus builders to rely on, not enough skills to use, no execute. I find that my burst damage in PvP is good, but as soon as Basilisk is down, my damage, while not THAT bad suddenly becomes lackluster compared to other classes. I'm sure FBolts doing 300k damage will be fixed eventually... then again it's Blizzard and they don't nerf mages.

The Bad
- Kill Shot: was a hunter classic, removing it severely weakens our PvE AND PvP ability - We have a PvP talent that resets the cooldown on Kill Command when used on a target at 30% or less HP... only issue is we don't have the focus to execute this properly.

- Master's Call: We NEED this, why is it not available to BM? It's called MASTER'S call after all. Now we can only remove movement impairing effects ONCE with Disengage and that's it, no other means of immunity to this effect.

- Wild Call: It's just bad. RNG sucks but this is a whole new level, I understand it's the start of the expansion but currently 1 in 4 auto shots will crit. Wild Call without the talent is a 20% chance to trigger on an auto shot crit.. so that means you have a 1 in 20 chances of triggering this effect. This is horrible considering Blizzard wants to build the spec around this passive ability, to make Dire Beast a big part of our rotation. If you don't have any cooldowns or buffs that increase your crit available; statistically you will only proc Wild Call once every 56 seconds.

- Aspect of the Turtle/Deterrence: Was used to having 2 charges, we never had anything to heal us besides Exhilarate and that was a talent last time I played, but now the artifact perks heal you while the buff is active, this is a good change. But having just 1 charge on a 3 minute cooldown while damage still goes through the effect.. don't know, needs work.

- Aspect of the Cheetah: Why? We never needed a mobility spell, that's why we had Master's Call and Disengage to begin with. Cheetah was our movement speed bonus all-rounder spell. Pack was a good riddance, but the Cheetah change - I guarantee you NO hunter likes it, and seeing as Cheetah doesn't remove movement speed slows, it's useless during combat.

- Traps: What can I say really, we have no CC, no real means to get melee off us now.

- Scatter Shot: Why is it a MM spell only now, it was a good spell and had it's uses, again we can't CC anymore and this hurts. Intimidate, WS and Binding Shot are not enough. One of them HAVE to be baseline and it's talent slot needs to be swapped with Scatter.

- Pets: Hati walks to its target, slowly. Pet AI is bat shit bad. Pets are weak and die too quickly.

- PvP talents: As I mentioned earlier, my burst using Basilisk talent is really high, the basilisk at times does more damage than everything else I cast during the fight, so until you get to that talent, you're actually pretty weak. Don't get me wrong, Killer Cobra allows us to spam between CS and KC which is great burst but we need another baseline - hello Chimaera Shot..

- Pet abilities: Why did you remove these? Each pet had its use. You give us a spider as a pet for a premade, but for what? A slow? We have Concussive Shot for that.

- AoE spells: We don't have any. We're always focus starved and have to spec/talent into AoE. The only time you'll be satisfied with your AoE damage is when you have the Artifact trait that makes Hati benefit from KC and Beast Cleave unlocked.

The Good
Our self healing is ridiculous right now. Not as crazy as other classes that flat out can CAST healing spells on themselves but really good none the less. I can't say the same for the other specs but BM has a lot of self heal right now. It usually comes at about 1/3 sometimes 1/4 of my total damage. Spirit Mend needs a buff though, it doesn't feel as effective as it was in previous expansions.

[Tehterokkar]

Just thought I'd leave my thoughts on BM again after playing it for several days. This is mostly PvP focused.

Really don't like where the class is headed at all, we've lost too much, we have no cooldowns to watch out for (hello Focus Fire), no strong focus builders to rely on, not enough skills to use, no execute. I find that my burst damage in PvP is good, but as soon as Basilisk is down, my damage, while not THAT bad suddenly becomes lackluster compared to other classes. I'm sure FBolts doing 300k damage will be fixed eventually... then again it's Blizzard and they don't nerf mages.

The Bad
- Kill Shot: was a hunter classic, removing it severely weakens our PvE AND PvP ability - We have a PvP talent that resets the cooldown on Kill Command when used on a target at 30% or less HP... only issue is we don't have the focus to execute this properly.

- Master's Call: We NEED this, why is it not available to BM? It's called MASTER'S call after all. Now we can only remove movement impairing effects ONCE with Disengage and that's it, no other means of immunity to this effect.

- Wild Call: It's just bad. RNG sucks but this is a whole new level, I understand it's the start of the expansion but currently 1 in 4 auto shots will crit. Wild Call without the talent is a 20% chance to trigger on an auto shot crit.. so that means you have a 1 in 20 chances of triggering this effect. This is horrible considering Blizzard wants to build the spec around this passive ability, to make Dire Beast a big part of our rotation. If you don't have any cooldowns or buffs that increase your crit available; statistically you will only proc Wild Call once every 56 seconds.

- Aspect of the Turtle/Deterrence: Was used to having 2 charges, we never had anything to heal us besides Exhilarate and that was a talent last time I played, but now the artifact perks heal you while the buff is active, this is a good change. But having just 1 charge on a 3 minute cooldown while damage still goes through the effect.. don't know, needs work.

- Aspect of the Cheetah: Why? We never needed a mobility spell, that's why we had Master's Call and Disengage to begin with. Cheetah was our movement speed bonus all-rounder spell. Pack was a good riddance, but the Cheetah change - I guarantee you NO hunter likes it, and seeing as Cheetah doesn't remove movement speed slows, it's useless during combat.

- Traps: What can I say really, we have no CC, no real means to get melee off us now.

- Scatter Shot: Why is it a MM spell only now, it was a good spell and had it's uses, again we can't CC anymore and this hurts. Intimidate, WS and Binding Shot are not enough. One of them HAVE to be baseline and it's talent slot needs to be swapped with Scatter.

- Pets: Hati walks to its target, slowly. Pet AI is bat shit bad. Pets are weak and die too quickly.

- PvP talents: As I mentioned earlier, my burst using Basilisk talent is really high, the basilisk at times does more damage than everything else I cast during the fight, so until you get to that talent, you're actually pretty weak. Don't get me wrong, Killer Cobra allows us to spam between CS and KC which is great burst but we need another baseline - hello Chimaera Shot..

- Pet abilities: Why did you remove these? Each pet had its use. You give us a spider as a pet for a premade, but for what? A slow? We have Concussive Shot for that.

- AoE spells: We don't have any. We're always focus starved and have to spec/talent into AoE. The only time you'll be satisfied with your AoE damage is when you have the Artifact trait that makes Hati benefit from KC and Beast Cleave unlocked.

The Good
Our self healing is ridiculous right now. Not as crazy as other classes that flat out can CAST healing spells on themselves but really good none the less. I can't say the same for the other specs but BM has a lot of self heal right now. It usually comes at about 1/3 sometimes 1/4 of my total damage. Spirit Mend needs a buff though, it doesn't feel as effective as it was in previous expansions.

Kill Shot: Hunter Classic? It was only added in Wrath, not every class needs an execute button, there are still execute mechanics in place though(as you mentioned the BM PvP talent, along with MM having Bullseye artifact perk).

Master's Call: A lot of PvP buttons were removed

Wild Call: Average interval is about 40s with current pre-raid gear sims. I agree it's not crazy, but it's not significant either, in fact it's pretty shit.

Aspect of the Turtle: There is a Legendary to reduce CD to 1.5min

Cheetah: It's a good quick sprint, and CD also reduced to 1.5 min with a Legendary. Baseline CD is annoying, but it's better than nothing.

Traps: General issue atm, Melees simply have too much uptime on Ranged. Melees have more gap closers in Legion than before, and Ranged have less tools to gain distance/remove effects(Slows/Stuns)

Scatter Shot: It's gone, but MM has Bursting Shot, which is an AoE-cone Scatter Shot.

Pets: Pet AI is not bad, just that Hati is slow while main pet has speed bonuses + KC Charge + Sprint. Pets can be ressed with a 2 sec cast and Hati only has 30s spawn timer now(down from 2 mins)

AoE spells: You have Multi-Shot. Multi-Shot triggers Beast Cleave, that is your AoE as BM. Also Stampede is one of the most potent AoE burst CD in game at the moment. And it's pretty obvious that you are tuned around your Artifacts, you should get your "Hati git gud" perk pretty much just as you hit 110.

[idunnowatdo]

Are there any videos of BM in action in raids? dungeons?

[Kainan]

Are there any videos of BM in action in raids? dungeons?

Yeah here is a video of a dungeon run and you can see how simple the class is to play just by looking at the bar lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x8x1KQawp0

[Zeth Hawkins]

Aspect of the Turtle: There is a Legendary to reduce CD to 1.5min

Two charges, with each on a two minute cooldown, was better.

Cheetah: It's a good quick sprint, and CD also reduced to 1.5 min with a Legendary. Baseline CD is annoying, but it's better than nothing.

Cheetah borders on "why does this even exist?"

Posthaste (far and away the best 45 talent) is slightly better than it in distance/speed over twelve seconds, and slightly worse than it just during the first three seconds. Wowpedia says that characters run at a baseline of 7 yards per second, so let's do some math.

Cheetah: 12 seconds, 190% speed for three, 130% speed for nine. 39.9 yards covered during the first three seconds, 81.9 yards during the following nine seconds, for a total of 121.8 yards per 12 seconds.
Posthaste: 160% for 8 seconds, 13 yards covered in one second from the disengage itself. 13 yard jump, 89.6 yards during the eight second boost, then 21 yards during the next three seconds, for a total of 123.6 yards per 12 seconds.

Looking at only the first three seconds (the most important part of cheetah):
Cheetah: 190% for three, total of 39.9 yards per 3 seconds.
Posthaste: 13 yard jump, 160% for two, total of 35.4 yards per 3 seconds.

So it's a minuscule difference between the two, but one has a 20 second CD and the other has a 3 minute CD (1.5 if you want to waste a legendary slot).
Oh, and Posthaste frees you from movement impairing effects as a bonus.

[Deleted]

Master's Call: A lot of PvP buttons were removed

mages pretty much lost alter time and decurse, nothing else. fire & arcane even gained lots of stuff. Masters call should still be universal pvp talent choice for all hunter specs.

Aspect of the Turtle: There is a Legendary to reduce CD to 1.5min

Legendaries dont work in pvp. Imo give it 2 charges & lower the duration to ~5 seconds.

Cheetah: It's a good quick sprint, and CD also reduced to 1.5 min with a Legendary. Baseline CD is annoying, but it's better than nothing.

Original was way better and we didnt need a sprint in the first place, the cooldown & duration is also stupid long. Also you can't sprint with all the million snares the melees have running on you cause you cant masters call.

Traps: General issue atm, Melees simply have too much uptime on Ranged. Melees have more gap closers in Legion than before, and Ranged have less tools to gain distance/remove effects(Slows/Stuns)

Removing traps from the 2 ranged hunter specs is like making polymorph arcane only. BM is the only spec in the game without baseline cc. From my time in beta im missing explosive trap so much when you get gang banged by melee.

Scatter Shot: It's gone, but MM has Bursting Shot, which is an AoE-cone Scatter Shot.

Is a MM pvp talent.

Also Stampede is one of the most potent AoE burst CD in game at the moment.

You have no ways of keeping people standing in the stampede for the whole duration in pvp, old one was better.

[threads]

dire beast whistle is annoying as hell too just make it a pet growl or something.

main issues I have with BM is that chimera is not baseline and most of the talents are passives like they said "how much can we do with the same base 3 abilities"

i find it more enjoyable than MM though.

[Nythiz]

Kill Shot: Hunter Classic? It was only added in Wrath, not every class needs an execute button, there are still execute mechanics in place though(as you mentioned the BM PvP talent, along with MM having Bullseye artifact perk).

Master's Call: A lot of PvP buttons were removed

Wild Call: Average interval is about 40s with current pre-raid gear sims. I agree it's not crazy, but it's not significant either, in fact it's pretty shit.

Aspect of the Turtle: There is a Legendary to reduce CD to 1.5min

Cheetah: It's a good quick sprint, and CD also reduced to 1.5 min with a Legendary. Baseline CD is annoying, but it's better than nothing.

Traps: General issue atm, Melees simply have too much uptime on Ranged. Melees have more gap closers in Legion than before, and Ranged have less tools to gain distance/remove effects(Slows/Stuns)

Scatter Shot: It's gone, but MM has Bursting Shot, which is an AoE-cone Scatter Shot.

Pets: Pet AI is not bad, just that Hati is slow while main pet has speed bonuses + KC Charge + Sprint. Pets can be ressed with a 2 sec cast and Hati only has 30s spawn timer now(down from 2 mins)

AoE spells: You have Multi-Shot. Multi-Shot triggers Beast Cleave, that is your AoE as BM. Also Stampede is one of the most potent AoE burst CD in game at the moment. And it's pretty obvious that you are tuned around your Artifacts, you should get your "Hati git gud" perk pretty much just as you hit 110.

I don't agree with all his complaints;but a few have merit.

- KS gone is a shame, I really really liked it. But I can live with this, mechanically this doesn't change too much if they balance around it.
I agree with his issue though. We get KC as a pseudo-execute but we will hardly ever have enough focus for this.

- Master's Call removal is a big hit to BM and MM hunters (SV kept this iirc). Melee uptime is really high in legion, this ability was pretty crucial to hunter's ability to stay at range. I don't see us getting anything in return either.

- Wild Call is just lame. The whole concept makes little sense. At least they're buffing it, knowing that it's too random.

- Aspect of the Turtle: Ye this is a bit of a thing as well. By itself I wouldn't mind this too much, but with all the other skills removed and or nerfed this feels like that extra kick when you're down.
Not sure why they removed the charges, maybe they felt that hunters were able to ignore mechanics too easy in pve with 2 charges, or maybe hunters were too risky of a target in arena with 2 immunities. I don't know.

- Aspect of the Cheetah. This one kinda sucks. And not because the new one is really bad, but because the old one was more unique. Do we really need another sprint on a class that probably didn't even need it with disengage(+posthaste) and stuff. Why change this? Cheetah was this nice niche skill and both useful as a constant speed boost without being too strong (especially with it turning off on taking damage).
I assume this was just in the grand scheme of things where "We have to make all aspects cooldowns, that will surely make them more interesting !". But I think they missed the mark on this one.

- Traps: This is the worst thing that is coming in legion. The removal of traps (and most significantly freezing trap) is such a huge let down for hunters in legion. We don't really have any other CC and freezing trap was both iconic and balanced for non-SV hunters (which is a non-issue in legion with the SV overhaul).
I understand that they want to make traps the trademark SV aspect, but there is really no reason to completely remove MM and BMs only real CC ability without giving anything solid in return. I know we still have Wyvern Sting, but really. Totally uncalled for.

- Pet AI is something I'll hold my judgement on for now. Hati needs some work, I hope they fix this before launch.

- AoE: I don't think this is a major issue. Beastcleave has always been really strong. With Hati in the mix it should be really solid AoE dps.
The focus requirement of Multi Shot and Barrage uptime is a big thing, but IMO the issue here could only be focus generation.

----

Focus generation is a bit of a concern as on first sight by looking at the skills it seems to be really slow. The video's ive seen so far don't indicate this as much though, so I'd really have to get some hands on experience before I can call this.

[ShasVa]

Once Haste increases, focus generation seems to smooth out. Haste + Mastery seems like a reasonable way to go. Crit would be if Wild Call worked on more than just autoattacks!

I won't go any further. It looks like BM's design is locked-in and won't be changed anytime soon, perhaps not even until the next expansion. So what use is there to further complaints and suggestions? I'm not saying don't complain, I'm just saying it probably won't change Blizzard's minds now.

[zerocarbs]

There was a certain fluidity before because you had to manage your focus. Now it's just whack-a-mole with the buttons and feels very bad.

[Dannyboon]

If anyones done any sims (because i'm lazy) what does it look like a good stat priority could be? Looks like haste (even tho very little) reduces the CD on DB which could make it stronger for sustained but idk honestly whats everyones thoughts?