"Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism."

[Spectral]

Male oppression of women is white knighters, taking on the cause of women...

...

"Let me open this door for you."

Wow, that sounds so terrible. Stop Oppression 2016.

[Deleted]

True Cause? I've heard about 50 different "true purposes"

Well, sure, whatever the true cause is, or whomever is right, it's not those men.

[Theodarzna]

Well, sure, whatever the true cause is, or whomever is right, it's not those men.

Gosh' I sure hope its not many of the women I've heard, they've told me some wild stories.

Since there is no pope, and womankind hasn't crowned a Queen in the Vag! First of Her Name, Queen of Cis Woman and the Trans, breaker of chains and the unburnt.

[Spectral]

Anyone can go back and see that I said the polar opposite of "women are weak". I said they're not. And they don't need you. At all. Ever.

I do need women. This whole, "we don't need you!" thing is reprehensible. Complementarity of genders is a delightful part of humanity.

[Deleted]

Gosh' I sure hope its not many of the women I've heard, they've told me some wild stories.

Since there is no pope, and womankind hasn't crowned a Queen in the Vag! First of Her Name, Queen of Cis Woman and the Trans, breaker of chains and the unburnt.

Well, look. If someone speaks for you, and you actually want them to speak for you, that's obviously amazing. However, if someone speaks for you, and you never asked them to, I'm guessing you might feel a bit miffed? Even if they're saying the right words. Am I completely off here?

[Cthulhu 2020]

There are so many interesting ways that people attempt to shut down conversations about gender politics and identity.

I can't say this "Don't speak for them or you're a beta male!" method is new or even that creative.

[Deleted]

blabla

You know exactly what I'm saying, and I'm done with this irrelevant back and forth.

[Deleted]

There are so many interesting ways that people attempt to shut down conversations about gender politics and identity.

I can't say this "Don't speak for them or you're a beta male!" method is new or even that creative.

Don't speak for women if you're a male period, whether beta or otherwise.

[Dextroden]

There are so many interesting ways that people attempt to shut down conversations about gender politics and identity.

I can't say this "Don't speak for them or you're a beta male!" method is new or even that creative.

You would be the most knowledgeable person on that subject.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Well, look. If someone speaks for you, and you actually want them to speak for you, that's obviously amazing. However, if someone speaks for you, and you never asked them to, I'm guessing you might feel a bit miffed? Even if they're saying the right words. Am I completely off here?

How do you know they're miffed? You sure are assuming a lot about someone you don't even know. Why are you fighting their fight? If they don't want someone speaking for them, they can tell them themselves. They don't need beta males doing it for them.

[Deleted]

I just can't understand this unbelievable need for men to be championing women here, instead of letting women be women for themselves, and fight their own fights.

I have never understood a man saying "I'm a feminist", at all. No. You're a man. Be a man. Let women be feminists.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Well yes, I'd say that's been the case all along. I know exactly what you're saying and you either have no idea what you said, what I said, or both, and continue to flail wildly crying about how the mean nasty men advocating feminism are the true misogynists all along.

I bet you could sell that plot twist as an amazing novel.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I just can't understand this unbelievable need for men to be championing women here, instead of letting women be women for themselves, and fight their own fights.

I have never understood a man saying "I'm a feminist", at all. No. You're a man. Be a man. Let women be feminists.

Who are you to tell me what I should be? I'm a pretty purple butterfly and I find it incredibly offensive that you'd tell me what to be otherwise!

- - - Updated - - -

I just can't understand what kind of actually crazy fucked up world you live in where the only way to help people is to tell them to fuck off.

This would be more funny than tragic if it weren't for the fact that a huge portion of our world thinks that's exactly how to help people.

[Deleted]

It's funny if I'm in the wrong here. I'm the one thinking women are strong individuals who don't need men to help them at all, but apparently that's wrong. Especially when those men force their help on the women, but, meh. Who cares. Oh well. Sorry Theo, I thought I was on your side, but apparently I'm your enemy, according to these other men here. Whoda thunkit.

A couple more to the ignore list then.

Not you, Theo.

[May90]

I've always been curious about this human property: the eagerness to simplify everything to the extent that it can be summarized in one short sentence. It is apparent that the world is pretty complicated, and human behaviors are extremely complex - yet we see over and over again statements like "Feminists are man haters", "MRA are woman haters", "Religious people are idiots", "Atheists are fools", "The left want not to work and live off welfare", "The right want to steal everything from the poor"...

Perhaps there are more colors in the world than just black and white, no? Oh, wait, it would be a bit too complicated to grasp. Easier to put straw mans around the house and shoot the bastards!

[Bollocks]

Well yes, I'd say that's been the case all along. I know exactly what you're saying and you either have no idea what you said, what I said, or both, and continue to flail wildly crying about how the mean nasty men advocating feminism are the true misogynists all along.

I'll try to explain his case somewhat from what I've gathered. He is saying that we should let woman sort it out. To put an example, Black people. In the USA I assume its offensive when people say nigger, yet black people call themselves that a lot and don't consider it an issue when they use the word. I've called some of my black friends nigger in a friendly manner and they don't freak out. And that is somewhat bothering, pretending for one that something is an issue when its not. I think snoop dog put it brilliantly when he said white people should shut up when it comes to black people issues because they don't have an understanding of it. The same aplies with every other minority community out there. That I think is the idea he is trying to make.

pd: There might be some awful mistakes in grammar and every other aspect out there but bear with me on this one.

[Theodarzna]

Well, look. If someone speaks for you, and you actually want them to speak for you, that's obviously amazing. However, if someone speaks for you, and you never asked them to, I'm guessing you might feel a bit miffed? Even if they're saying the right words. Am I completely off here?

The issue is I've felt miffed in equal measure when men or women do it. I think the issue I take with it is, what if I am a not pleased with what the feminist women say for me? Are all women feminists? Are only women who are feminist allowed to speak? Who are they speaking for? Themselves? All women?

Who gave them that right?

[Theodarzna]

isn't this the definition of Feminism?

Honestly a lot of this new wave would loose a lot of its energy without man-hating. Feminism has managed to crawl briefly out of its grave on Jezebel articles and tumblr rage. Go to the rallies, read the media, talk with the "boots on the ground," ditching misandry would suck the air out of the sails very fast IMHO.

Many many "feminist," scholars, writers and commentaters have made a small fortune off of it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Alas, I was the true misogynist all along.

And I mean, if I am dialing it back down into seriousness for a bit, to some degree I understand and agree with what he is saying, but he's taking it to an extreme and supporting it with all of the wrong reasons. As far as I know, the popular feminist position on the matter, at least among those who think it's a problem at least some of the time, is primarily that men should be careful not to talk over women on the subject when women could otherwise be the ones addressing it, since women live the experience and are likely better equipped to handle the relevant subjects. I do think there is some sense to that, but it doesn't really apply to a format like this, where everyone can post and has equal potential for attention, in the first place.

I've always played a support role for the women in my life. Mother, grandmother, sister, friends, girlfriends, offering to help whenever needed. And about 99% of the time it's just "listen to me bitch about my problems". I've been told that the fact that I can just sit and listen without making stupid comments or wanting to do something about it is why I'm so easy to talk to.

It's why this little tirade from lesser men about "always speaking for women" was so funny, considering the topic. These forums are the last place where anyone can speak for anyone else, as nothing said here actually matters.

There's plenty to be gained from the opposite gender participating in a discussion about one gender, as input from multiple angles offers a variety of viewpoints for people to consider. Possibly the most COUNTER PRODUCTIVE are those who just simply try to shut conversations down. They use many tactics, but they're all the same mindset, they don't want to talk about something because it makes them uneasy doing so, so they think up various ways to try and shame people into not talking about things period.

Can't say I've ever seen someone on these forums go "Shut up feminist and let me fight this fight for you" as he was suggesting, just a whole lot of people with different opinions on the subject matter.

[Arewn]

This just in: Extremists from one group of people reflect poorly on the moderates in the same group. More at 11.

Kind of missing the point. The whole issue is that this isn't extremists from the group. Its the mainstream group itself that has become this way.
The article mentions this.