Should the EU dissolve?

[Shalcker]

What on earth is the point of 'sovereignty' if the vast majority of people are significantly better off materially.

For many countries it's a lot less "vast" then it appears. Economy goes up, "middle class" goes down or disappears while most benefits of economy going up go to 1%.

[Deleted]

That is a whole heap of legislation, regulations, rights etc. that would either have to made into laws in all the nations, or we are back at square one, where everything is a mess between countries. If not, most of our nations could very likely see entire industries just vanish from not being able to either compete or simply because they can't follow suit (an example, this nation would lose its entire agricultural industry and most of manufacturing industry would have to be remodeled).

I know it might seem like the EU is nothing but a money sink and a system that doesn't help anyone, but a lot of our nations wouldn't exactly stand as strong or as competitive on our feet. No matter what what anyone says, it ain't sunshine and rainbows without it, just because the EU has issues and problems.

[Shalcker]

Didn't Medvedev stated that cancellation of tourism sanctions must target this season? Seems a bit rushing to me. It's like Kremlin wants Russian tourists in Turkey more than Turks do. Your biggest hit is tourism, not bunch of vegetable importation. I mean I live in Antalya, it's the go-to destination for Russians and businesses here are crying quite hard.

Well, they seem to be in mood to restore charter flights, but with relatively common terrorist attacks (not in Antalya, i know) i don't think Turkey will become popular destination soon enough to get usual amount of tourists this season. Maybe next year.

Which is probably exactly why it looks like perfectly safe gesture of friendship to make for government.

[Moon-Man]

And they are, the EU consists of sovereign countries, all this thread is good for is uninformed Americans giving their stupid opinion on things they don't understand.

Like you?

EU, needs to go, Period. No need for explanation.

[Deleted]

EU, needs to go, Period. No need for explanation.

No. That's not how it works. Especially in this case, there definitely is the need for an explanation.

[Wikiy]

It won't.

People with power do not like to let go of that power. Tue next country that tries to leave will be blocked. England can get away with it only cause it's one of those prime western nations we hear about so much. If it was some bumfuck country no one can even name, they'd be getting raped right now by Germany and the rest.

You're completely wrong. You're acting as if the politicians in Belgium are always the same ones, as if the leadership of the EU is fixed in whom it is made up of and constant in their mission. This simply cannot be since it rotates all the time. The presidency rotates every half year (literally goes from country to country). The Parliament switches up every 4 years (like any country), as does the Commission. The Council changes whenever a prime minister changes.
I.e., there are pretty much no politicians in the whole EU apparatus whose future career is dependant on the fate of the EU. They just go back to their countries when they're done with their adventure (a vast majority of them). So your claim that people who have power are reluctant to let it go is simply nonsensical since they already let it go after max. 4 years.

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it should become a federation based on it's elected parliament and the commission should be elected by the peoples directly.

You are aware that no democracy actually works like this? The parliament is elected and then appoints the executive branch according to their majority.

[namecraft]

we dutchies replaced the gulden with euro, worst mistake ever, and we did not even got to vote on it.

we were promised prices would not go up, but of course it was a lie.

[Deleted]

we dutchies replaced the gulden with euro, worst mistake ever, and we did not even got to vote on it.

we were promised prices would not go up, but of course it was a lie.

Odds are like all us other nations that kept our currency, its worth would be vastly tied to the euro. Price changes, would also have happened and likely didn't happen exclusively because of the euro (hint, a lot of companies will take everything they can to warrant any form of price increase, even if it is based purely on ignorance).

[Deleted]

I wasn't claiming it just defending the guy that wrote it.

First google hit, less then 24 hours in

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...ready-11523855

ah thats what you meant, not exactly promise but I dont know any better word except misleading message.

the 350 milion,
saw a youtube video with nigel farage interview inlcuding a a truck where that misleading message was visible and from another youtube i remember somethign about it not deducting the benefits. The 350million is the outgoing not ingoing. .

I dislike such things but I but im pretty sure this is what both sides do, it's become standard in westen culture in commercial.

Reducing immigration:
seems more a clarification. It's wanting to ahlt the extreme immigrant / refugees crisis basically.
Also it seems to say current immigrants like from the eu wont get kicked out of england, that doesn't change the message.


The article 50 I already adressed.

Admittingly I havn't watched most speakers so it's hard to say to pick up the nuanced tricks of misleading was.

[Felnoire]

No, the EU should not be dissolved. It must be taken orally in pill form to be effective, dissolving in any liquid reduces it's effectiveness by up to 52%. Take one a day, two if you're not sure one is enough, and three if you want to feel a buzz.

Seriously though, I also say no. The EU can work, and will work if those within it are invested in making it work. Britain always was one foot out of the door to begin with, so a Brexit to some was inevitable if a bit undesirable for the uncertainty it'll plague the markets with for the next couple of years following it. This might actually work out to the EU's benefit, as frankly they'll not have Farage taking up time just going around insulting delegates and are able to maybe get some work done. There is room for reform, room for improvement, etc, but that'll only occur if those within it are united to making the system work for the good of it's members as a whole. As much as interesting times give me a headache cause of the vitriol, I will say it's going to be interesting times ahead of us and the EU will likely change because of them.

[Dezerte]

A lot of people don't seem to know what the EU is, how it functions.

[Consternation]

EU just needs to be less stubborn and slow down. They are so desperate for control over every issue.

I don't understand why so many europeans are so threatened by the US or Russia. US has spent trillions keeping us safe and strong, Russia has a fucked economy and a military budget less than the UK.

[Karon]

It sure should. Sovereign nations should learn to stand on their own without some sort of pseudo world government wannabe in control of them. Hell, if people want world Government we will happily take over.

"Location: USA"

Oh the Irony.

[Akka]

Shoud the EU dissolve ? No.

EU having a bad press is 95 % because it's a scapegoat, and VERY little because of it's supposed dysfunctionality - it does bring FAR more good than bad, it's just that politicians give themselves credits for what EU does well, and blame the EU for what they do wrong.

The UK is a perfect example of this : not only most of the blames are just lies, the disgusting irony is that what most of the Brexiter blame the EU for... was actually CAUSED BY THE UK.

Too much Eastern immigrants !
It's the UK which pushed for Eastern Europe integration in 2003 (a major error of "too much too fast"). And why ? Because it wanted to prevent further EU integration, and expected that such a massive new amount of arrivals would slow it down (it did). Basically the UK sabotaged the EU and then now complains of the result of said sabotage and use it to claim the EU failed.

The EU is a tool of the financial elite to oppress the worker ?
Well, the EU is the one which enforces worker's rights. Limitation of the working week to 48h ? It's a EU directive, which was adopted 11 to 1. I'll let you guess which country had voted against.
The EU tried to tax financial transaction (Tobin tax). Guess which country vetoed said tax ?

The EU is undemocratic !
ALL decisions taken by the EU are taken by elected officials (either parlementiaries or governments members from the different states). I don't know from where this retarded accusation comes from, but there is NOT. A. SINGLE. DECISION. which can be taken without ELECTED officials involved.

So yeah, so much for the anti-EU crowd. Most of them are completely ignorant and just repeat the same bullshit which is contradicted by facts.

[Rotted]

Can we get this locked,

I seriously doubt theres a single person in this thread (Including myself) or even website thats in a position to make a factual non biased opinion on this topic,

[Consternation]

Shoud the EU dissolve ? No.

EU having a bad press is 95 % because it's a scapegoat, and VERY little because of it's supposed dysfunctionality - it does bring FAR more good than bad, it's just that politicians give themselves credits for what EU does well, and blame the EU for what they do wrong.

The UK is a perfect example of this : not only most of the blames are just lies, the disgusting irony is that what most of the Brexiter blame the EU for... was actually CAUSED BY THE UK.

Too much Eastern immigrants !
It's the UK which pushed for Eastern Europe integration in 2003 (a major error of "too much too fast"). And why ? Because it wanted to prevent further EU integration, and expected that such a massive new amount of arrivals would slow it down (it did). Basically the UK sabotaged the EU and then now complains of the result of said sabotage and use it to claim the EU failed.

The EU is a tool of the financial elite to oppress the worker ?
Well, the EU is the one which enforces worker's rights. Limitation of the working week to 48h ? It's a EU directive, which was adopted 11 to 1. I'll let you guess which country had voted against.
The EU tried to tax financial transaction (Tobin tax). Guess which country vetoed said tax ?

The former British government actually apologised and admitted it was their fault in for eastern European integration in 2003.

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Can we get this locked,

I seriously doubt theres a single person in this thread (Including myself) or even website thats in a position to make a factual non biased opinion on this topic,

You're fun aren't you

[Deleted]

You're fun aren't you

TBF it is just a vacuum of misinformation

[Akka]

The former British government actually apologised and admitted it was their fault in for eastern European integration in 2003.

Doesn't seem to have changed anything about public perception anyway. How many Brexiter lay the "blame" of the "polish worker" on the UK instead of the EU ?

[Deleted]

Doesn't seem to have changed anything about public perception anyway. How many Brexiter lay the "blame" of the "polish worker" on the UK instead of the EU ?

Nobody knows

[Akka]

Nobody knows

Pointless answer. Real answer : nearly nobody. The EU is still blamed by ignorant idiots who have no clue and no fact beyond that they heard somewhere "the EU doesn't work" and repeat it like mindless parrots ever since.