Should the EU dissolve?

[Deja Thoris]

Given all the problems that the EU brings to each member country (loss of sovereignty), do you think the EU should dissolve as a policy setting organization, but keep the Euro so that each country doesn't have to have different exchange rates between them?

Great Britain is a prime example of why this is a legitimate question. Them leaving the EU proves that at least in some part, the EU doesn't work as a policy setting organization.

Each member country gives up certain rights to agree to the policies set by the European Union, and I think this is a HUGE negative.

Or, should the European Union become a large country, and each member country would be a state within that country no longer identified as a country? This would mean each country would have to give up even more rights and identity as a country to become a part of one large centrally ruled country.

Thoughts?

I think you should stick to making trite threads on wow. This step up to real world implications on important stuff is a bit beyond you.

It's clear you don't really understand the issue at hand here though you'll get lots of bites. I mean that last paragraph is fucking hilarious. Places like France (and many others) would literally declare war if their identities as countries were to be lost.

[Fyersing]

Yes. Let me be clear, it has stopped war between countries in Europe which are part of the EU.

It's very likely that there wouldn't have been many, if any, infighting between Europeans if the Germans had emerged from WWII as the victors; the reason for this being the same in both cases, the lack of warfare within Europe has very little to do with the government being innately peaceful and everything to do with the government being completely willing to utilize force against threats from within.

The EU is completely willing to starve out its own member-states if they refuse to toe-the-line, and is actively fighting to deracinate the cultural majority of each member-state. A century ago, that was "treason", not "peace-keeping".

[xfloydex]

How exactly does the atombomb keep germany from starting another world war? You won't use it, not in the middle of europe.

I'm not even sure what you're asking. Germany wont start a world war because they are cool now, they grew up. As did Japan. Shortly after having 2 nukes dropped on them.

[Noradin]

I disagree with you on everything except trade, and monetary policy. Everything else, each country should be free to set their own policies in regards to human rights, diplomacy, worker flow, immigration, etc. Believe it or not, human rights is not some basic everyone should have thing. The only reason people have rights is because the collective society makes it that way, and each collective society (country) is different. Food for thought.

And they are free to do so. They just choose to speak with their peers in the EU first so they can avoid unneccessary trade barriers caused by conflicting legislation.

[Macaquerie]

The EU should become a democratic institution, where the member states retain as much as possible of their national sovereignty.

If they can't do that, then yes. They should dissolve.

That would completely neuter it though. The whole point of the EU, or any other international organization, is to ensure that countries do not make stupid laws that end up making life hard for everyone else just to service their own selfish interests. Without these organizations to keep everyone in line, countries would have to rely on the threat of war to make their rivals behave.

[Noradin]

Im saying your misleading, ignoring the fearmongering and dishonesty of of the remain camp.

Now that you put the notion of EVERY promise, what promiseS did they make they back out of? First all the president stepped down he's and the cabinet need to execute everything.
But talking specifically only staying calm and taking the time...yeah ofcourse if anything the remain camp made clear is that it's not easy to leave so the process needs to be carefully done. I havn't seen a single polititian initiate something instantly except when a great tragedy occurs (terrorist attack, war)

Uhh, sorry to ask,... but could you repeat that? In legible English, please.

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We still with this? No one gets bailed out. They get loans.

Loans that are basically gifts of huge amounts of money every month.

[Rotted]

The former British government actually apologised and admitted it was their fault in for eastern European integration in 2003.

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You're fun aren't you

I live under a rock in the middle of no where, scowling at the rest of humanity, what do you think?

[Deleted]

Uhh, sorry to ask,... but could you repeat that? In legible English, please.

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Loans that are basically gifts of huge amounts of money every month.

Wich has to be payed back with interest...

[Kallisto]

I don't think you can blanket say that it has stopped wars, you don't know if there would have been war without it

Who knows, but having the economies of France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg (First 6) so intertwined that one going to war with the other would destroy their own economy would certainly help stop a war.

[Noradin]

Wich has to be payed back with interest...

Yes, with interst so low that it amounts to monthly monetary gifts.
Just giving all the money for free to the Greece politicans, for them to do with as they wish, would be diamentral for the people who live there.
We cannot enable their politicans to act even more corrupt and continue to buy votes with tax gifts to whatever group they curry favour with, that would just drive their state deeper into the hole they are digging.

[Zecora]

That would completely neuter it though. The whole point of the EU, or any other international organization, is to ensure that countries do not make stupid laws that end up making life hard for everyone else just to service their own selfish interests. Without these organizations to keep everyone in line, countries would have to rely on the threat of war to make their rivals behave.

I completely disagree. You can easily have a framework that facilitates non-aggressive means of conflic resoloution, without turning it into an anti-democratic bureocratic nightmare like the EU.

And if they can't manage that, I prefer to see the EU gone.

[Kallisto]

I completely disagree. You can easily have a framework that facilitates non-aggressive means of conflic resoloution, without turning it into an anti-democratic bureocratic nightmare like the EU.

And if they can't manage that, I prefer to see the EU gone.

How is a place in which the democractically elected representatives holding the power undemocratic. Don't use the commission they hold no true power and can be told to fuck off at any point.

[Zecora]

How is a place in which the democractically elected representatives holding the power undemocratic. Don't use the commission they hold no true power and can be told to fuck off at any point.

The democratically elected representatives aren't holding the power. Didn't you catch Juncker just a few days ago? The EU will ram through the Canada free trade deal, the delegates don't get to vote, unless they UNANIMOUSLY demand to do so.

The Eu was never a very democratic system, but that shit is just getting worse.

[Deleted]

Yes, with interst so low that it amounts to monthly monetary gifts.
Just giving all the money for free to the Greece politicans, for them to do with as they wish, would be diamentral for the people who live there.
We cannot enable their politicans to act even more corrupt and continue to buy votes with tax gifts to whatever group they curry favour with, that would just drive their state deeper into the hole they are digging.

Monetary gifts aren't loans. You don't have to pay them back. They are definitly not "free".

You callous disregard of this is incredibly insulting for the populations having to endure austerity to pay said loans. They are very far from gifts.

But that is one of the reasons why i think Europe should unite. Then there wouldn't be such problems anymore.

[Zecora]

Monetary gifts aren't loans. You don't have to pay them back. They are definitly not "free".

You callous disregard of this is incredibly insulting for the populations having to endure austerity to pay said loans. They are very far from gifts.

But that is one of the reasons why i think Europe should unite. Then there wouldn't be such problems anymore.

Nooo...we would have far bigger ones.

Your solution is tantamount to cutting off your finger because it had a splinter in it.

[Noradin]

Monetary gifts aren't loans. You don't have to pay them back. They are definitly not "free".

Every time the interest is due they get a monetary gift from the rest of the EU: The difference between what they have to pay and what they would have to pay on their own.

[Wikiy]

The EU is completely willing to starve out its own member-states if they refuse to toe-the-line, and is actively fighting to deracinate the cultural majority of each member-state. [B]A century ago, that was "treason", not "peace-keeping".[B/]

Yes, and today, treason (effectively) isn't even a thing in Europe anymore. Thank god for that - treason as a crime is one of the more barbaric things we've still kept in this century.

[VirginiaIsForLovers]

Given all the problems that the EU brings to each member country (loss of sovereignty), do you think the EU should dissolve as a policy setting organization, but keep the Euro so that each country doesn't have to have different exchange rates between them?

Great Britain is a prime example of why this is a legitimate question. Them leaving the EU proves that at least in some part, the EU doesn't work as a policy setting organization.

Each member country gives up certain rights to agree to the policies set by the European Union, and I think this is a HUGE negative.

Or, should the European Union become a large country, and each member country would be a state within that country no longer identified as a country? This would mean each country would have to give up even more rights and identity as a country to become a part of one large centrally ruled country.

Thoughts?

Of course it should, it's nothing more than a modern day USSR that has also let millions of uncultured primitive people who are incompatible with the west immigrate into the eu.

[Deleted]

Can we get this locked please.

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And they are, the EU consists of sovereign countries, all this thread is good for is uninformed Americans giving their stupid opinion on things they don't understand.

Except people in power are trying their best to take countries sovereignty away at every turn and keep preaching about the "virtues of globalization".

I think EU should dissolve or devolve to something less intrusive to countries' sovereignty. Hell my country sends failed politicians that get kicked out of our governments to work as commissars and whatnot in EU, just so they can do damage on even larger scale. The power needs to be solely on the hands of those that get elected into office not on some backroom councils that most of the continent knows nothing about.

[ati87]

Of course it should, it's nothing more than a modern day USSR that has also let millions of uncultured primitive people who are incompatible with the west immigrate into the eu.

Yea we need to kick out the likes of you, these uncultured primitive warmongers have no place in today's age.