Is ilvl cancer for wow...

[ItachiZaku]

It's a needed evil, and this is a number easier meter than a third party addon or a slower "let me check your armory before accepting you" process.

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I really wish people would stop using the word cancer like this =/

I know, it's the current zodiac! I know a few cancers.

[Pantalaimon]

It is the basis of how stats are assigned to gear. If they don't show it, people will find a way to show it which is what gearscore was. At least with it being built into normal gameplay, you don't have new players who don't understand wtf a gearscore is.

If you do not want ilvl, then you do not want gear with stats. Simply put, see this thread. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-no-gear-in-it

Pretty much. Even without any form of gs raiders and/or group leaders would find out pretty fast if the damage you're doing is appropriate for that particular raid or encounter soon after inviting you. If anything addons like skada would take the place of GS if for some reason Blizzard took it away & prevented similar addons for being used for gear.

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Kind of what others have said, gear score/ilvl isn't a bad thing when concerned with higher difficulty styled rewards. Problem is Blizzard is putting so much randomness to the ilvl now that 2 player with equal skill are now less competing with each other as much as competing with the ilvl of gear. I almost pity the raiding guilds that use thing like EPGP or DKP, and I most definitely pity the raiders who have been around a guild forever and get sat because someone new is also equally skilled but doing more dps from ilvl alone, that now gets sat on progression because one player just happened to be luckier on a loot roll.

A good guild wouldn't consistently bench dependable raiders like that for something so arbitrary if they actually wanted to maintain their roster. If the members aren't going to feel valued for their hard work & commitment then they are not going to stay in that guild unless they are desperate.

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The problem is that some of they key traits for a successful player are patience, hustle and a general love of the game beyond being as efficient as possible. None of these are shown in ilvl or gearscore.

This is true, but playing efficiently is also required for many serious things in the end game. It's much of a different ball game than ilvl/gs, but think about challenge modes. You wouldn't be bringing someone into your group for gold if they're using double static stat trinkets (hopefully they wouldn't be even using one for that level of difficulty). Having lower ilvl can be like trying to get into CMs with bad trinkets, and on the flipside those who value it too much are like those group leaders who think agility users can't be top dps unless they have both Soul Capacitor & Mirror of the Blademaster). Part of the patience that you mentioned also includes being patient enough to wait til you find players that at least meet a minimum balance between those two extremes when forming a group.

[Deleted]

It did always exist, but it wasn't until late Wrath that Gearscore started being widely used and iLvl became a thing that most were aware of.

My main gripe about iLvl now being a 'thing' is that it basically makes me not care about any of the stats on the piece, I just look at the iLvl. It's made gearing very dull.

[Deleted]

If they removed ilvl from gear and through some miracle, no one would come up with a replacement (i.e. Gearscore)... People will find other ways to gauge a person's trackrecord or "skill". Either by looking at how much stamina or how much of a primary stat a player has. This will never go away unless people start to understand that a player's ilvl says NOTHING about that player's skill and neither do achievements. The best way I could imagine would be a testing system like the Proving Grounds, but of course that wouldn't be a perfect way either. Even after all this jumping through hoops to get accepted into a group at all... there's the ridiculous requirements most groups have for people to join in the first place.

what he wrote down ! , .... ilvl aint the problem , like gearscore wasnt the problem in the past , .... group leaders just have to stop asking ridiculous requirements that will help alot of frustration out of the world , .... ive seen people with ilvl 720 do less damage then people with -700 ilvl , .... its all about how wel you play your class . , myself i rather invite noobs and try ( if they fail trow them out ) then to piss people off by asking ridiculous requirements , then again i'm a vanilla player and i still have the oldshool mentality of group leading ( respect and patience ) something what the newbies let say the last 4-5 years forgot all about , one of the downside's of playing this game more then 11 years

[Nakotsu]

Item level has been in the game since day one you should realize this. The only difference from Vanilla to now is they actually put the number on the character sheet.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

What would you have them do instead? People showed in WotLK that if it's not there they'll find it and make an addon. People like their simpler ways of assessing the player's power. It makes group formation a lot easier. The issue is of course people inflating ilvl requirements but this is not the fault of item level. Achievements are required just as often (AOTC or no inv), if they removed the achievement they'd inspect you and assess it themselves or check your kill history. As usual, it's player mindset that is the problem. Removing ilvl wouldn't improve anything.

[Jaylock]

Have it hidden, keep it hidden, somehow block addons from showing it.

Honestly it's much more of a playerbase problem than an ilvl problem these days. People are so obsessed with pretending to be top-tier e-sports heroes that they've largely abandoned any sense of community.

Its a great way to judge a player.

If I want to only bring players who are 735 ilvl to my mythic dungeon runs, I can filter out the nubs who dont have that item level and fast clear them to get the valor for the day.

I don't want to have to go back to armorying them. If they have a 735 item level, i at least know they are capable of doing basic mythic HFC bosses, and have some sort of brain.

[jackofwind]

Its a great way to judge a player.

If I want to only bring players who are 735 ilvl to my mythic dungeon runs, I can filter out the nubs who dont have that item level and fast clear them to get the valor for the day.

I don't want to have to go back to armorying them. If they have a 735 item level, i at least know they are capable of doing basic mythic HFC bosses, and have some sort of brain.

No, you know they are capable of buying gold and purchasing a carry. The only way to actually judge people anymore is by observing their ability to play the game.

[glowpipe]

Players asking 30 ilvls higher than the content they do, drops is the cancer of wow

[Deleted]

Another problem is that flat iLvl doesn't even reflect the true power level of your gear.
A player with random Warforged Mythic Dungeon items with completely suboptimal stats and crappy trinkets has the same ilvl as a Heroic/Mythic raid geared player with tier bonuses and optimal trinkets. Yet the DPS/HPS/Survivability difference between those two is massive.

Maybe they should balance Proving Grounds better between classes (and make it better in general) or add in some challenging solo quests that could be factored in with ilvl for a better indication of skill. You could also assign some value to past raid experience based on boss kill dates etc.

[fernotao]

true gear score was never used in BC but people did inspect each others gear before inviting them to a group. also when you did pick players in bc it was more about what the group needed as far as CC and player ability now you pick players based on score which doesn't include players putting in the right enchants or players ability or even Rep within a server

[Boathouse]

I'm not sure you understand what ilvl is

[Daedius]

You do realise that the ilevel of gear acts as a multiplier for all its stats, right... ?

[Kayb]

Yes, it is.

[Ryme]

Gearscore is objectively better than item level, but both are at the end of the day just numbers. The cancer came from idiots who tried to make more out of them than they should, blame the players not the numbers.

[Deleted]

You do realise that the ilevel of gear acts as a multiplier for all its stats, right... ?

But it doesn't take into account set bonuses, sockets, trinket proc effects or how beneficial the stats are specifically for your spec.

[bloodmoth13]

What do you think, is ilvl now or gs before some sort of cancer for game, since that type of things in my own opinion, made wow community worse, forcing players to be more jerks and special snowflakes in game? Would you love that this sort of things never existed in wow before, even overall is not bad idea, but seeing how players use that, for me the best thing will be that ilvl or gs just gone...

cheers!!!

Its probably the most accessible and understandable method of gauging a players ability to participate in content, its basically the sum total of their available stats and gives a fairly decent idea on what to expect from the player.

Is it perfect? not by a long shot!

Its not the measurement thats the problem, its player behaviour, players want to breeze through content and only want to play with players their item level or higher.

There really isnt anything you can do about it, vanilla wow was special because there was fuck all resources on how to do everything, the game itself didnt get worse, its just that players found out the 'correct' ways to play and what to expect from other players. gear is now a prerequisite barrier to entry as other players dont want to have someone dragging them down, and its generally easier to find someone with a decent gear level than to level up and improve other players.

As the game itself got more and more competetive, there was less margin for error, average players were now considered bad, and excellence was considered the norm, passing dungeons on the first attempt was to be expected, any deviation from that was met with severe criticism, now players would only seek to group with other players whom they knew were capable of doing the desired content and item level was the best measurement around, as even heroic raiders would struggle with content they are severely undergeared for.

So no not really, ilvl isnt cancer to the game, its a measurement for those who are competitive to gauge someones ability on, and if you dont like the effects, its likely that competetiveness that you dislike more than the measurement.

Personally i enjoyed leveling at my own pace when i first started this game, when i did a dungeon i wanted to explore it, after a while though players only wanted to rush to the last boss and skip everything else, whos playstyle was right? either, i was new so everything was awesome! the other players were on alts, they had seen it before and just couldnt care less.