Why Blizzard's Story-Telling Has Deteriorated

[Kraenen]

The one thing that people usually have to say about Warlords was that the questing was good to great. There's a lot to talk about with the wheels falling off of various pieces of the game in Warlords but questing isn't one of them that comes up very often.

The only criticism I have of it is that it was too short. But that was apparently a deliberate decision so that there would be no delay in getting geared up for raiding.

Maybe it's just me but I found WoD leveling to be atrociously boring. Dungeons especially were far too spread apart with too stringent iLevel requirements.

[Gadzooks]

The one thing that people usually have to say about Warlords was that the questing was good to great. There's a lot to talk about with the wheels falling off of various pieces of the game in Warlords but questing isn't one of them that comes up very often.

The only criticism I have of it is that it was too short. But that was apparently a deliberate decision so that there would be no delay in getting geared up for raiding.

I diasagree, but I think we'v had that discussion before. I think the questing experience was lackluster overall, nothing was really memorable, zones like Spires was disjointed and jarring - one minute you're working on a long (and somewhat boring) Arrkoa questline...then suddenly I'm saving goblins? And yes, WAY too short. Criminally short, but we know why now - they gutted the middle, they sacrified the story of the Shadow Council and Shattrath to get to work on Legion faster, not gearing - Ion admitted that recently.

I think the overall expansion was so bad, in comparison the questing was the best part - but when you compare it to the other expansions, it falls very, very, short. Even Cata had a great questing experience, even though people understandably didn't like Vash'jir.

They can do much, much, much better, and I think that's a lot of the disapointment there. We know they can.

[thottstation]

The ONLY reason Theramore was destroyed was because Blizzard wanted to "balance out" the Horde/Alliance bases.

Coming up with a story about WHY Theramore would be destroyed, who did it and why... was secondary.

"How about... Garrosh did it. Because KILL ALL HUMANS."

"Er... isn't that wildly out of character compared to the Garrosh we've been developing all these years?"

"Yes. So? IT'S JUST A VIDEO GAME."

[Daralii]

The ONLY reason Theramore was destroyed was because Blizzard wanted to "balance out" the Horde/Alliance bases.

Coming up with a story about WHY Theramore would be destroyed, who did it and why... was secondary.

"How about... Garrosh did it. Because KILL ALL HUMANS."

"Er... isn't that wildly out of character compared to the Garrosh we've been developing all these years?"

"Yes. So? IT'S JUST A VIDEO GAME."

That went for most of Cata. And now Vol'jin's getting killed off because Varian is, and for Sylvanas fanservice. Pretty much every development just feels cold and tacked on.

[Gadzooks]

The ONLY reason Theramore was destroyed was because Blizzard wanted to "balance out" the Horde/Alliance bases.

Coming up with a story about WHY Theramore would be destroyed, who did it and why... was secondary.

"How about... Garrosh did it. Because KILL ALL HUMANS."

"Er... isn't that wildly out of character compared to the Garrosh we've been developing all these years?"

"Yes. So? IT'S JUST A VIDEO GAME."

Which makes their handling of Yrel at the end of the Archimonde fight all that more stupid. Kosak's reply as to why Yrel allowed Grom to take credit was "it's not in her character to do that." They play fast and loose all the time, making characters do things out of character. Consistency has not been their strong suit for a while now.

[Gwiez]

Because you are older and can recognize mediocre narratives better. If you have a favorite movie or book from when you were a kid, be wary about going back and reading/watching it, you may ruin the nostalgia.

[Florena]

I diasagree, but I think we'v had that discussion before. I think the questing experience was lackluster overall, nothing was really memorable, zones like Spires was disjointed and jarring - one minute you're working on a long (and somewhat boring) Arrkoa questline...then suddenly I'm saving goblins? And yes, WAY too short. Criminally short, but we know why now - they gutted the middle, they sacrified the story of the Shadow Council and Shattrath to get to work on Legion faster, not gearing - Ion admitted that recently.

I think the overall expansion was so bad, in comparison the questing was the best part - but when you compare it to the other expansions, it falls very, very, short. Even Cata had a great questing experience, even though people understandably didn't like Vash'jir.

They can do much, much, much better, and I think that's a lot of the disapointment there. We know they can.

I think the gutted story content wasn't intended for leveling but rather patches, which WoD did not have, that would have initially fleshed out the lore more. If WoD had used MoP's content structure, it could have flshed them out more.

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The ONLY reason Theramore was destroyed was because Blizzard wanted to "balance out" the Horde/Alliance bases.

Coming up with a story about WHY Theramore would be destroyed, who did it and why... was secondary.

"How about... Garrosh did it. Because KILL ALL HUMANS."

"Er... isn't that wildly out of character compared to the Garrosh we've been developing all these years?"

"Yes. So? IT'S JUST A VIDEO GAME."

No, it wasn't done to even anything out. You can even talk to an NPC to unphase Theramore and do the quests there. It was done to kick off the faction conflict that would be the driving force behind MoP.

Nor was it really inconsistent with Garrosh's character, when you look at his arc in the long term including out of game material, really only the stonetalon incident seems a bit out of place. Theramore was a military target. His plan was to remove it so he could isolate the night elves and claim their bountiful lands for the orcs. Even Jaina herself admits it's a military target in Tides of War.

Southshore was destroyed to balance out the zones. But not Theramore.

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That went for most of Cata. And now Vol'jin's getting killed off because Varian is, and for Sylvanas fanservice. Pretty much every development just feels cold and tacked on.

Yeah Vol'jin's death is puzzling. Varian's death makes sense from a story perspective. His arc is complete, and it makes room for Anduin to grow. Vol'jin was basically just keeping the seat warm for Sylvannas though which really sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Undeadprotoss]

Story Telling, and Story itself never was a strong point of the Warcraft Franchise. A lot of lazy tropes and shallow black/white Issues. The Books are deplorable, for the most part. Especially what Knaak and Christie Golden are pumping out is unreadable trash. No, for good Story telling you have to look elswhere - but fortunately, there are really a lot of very good fantasy books that fill that Void .

WC3 was just a very good RTS, I didn't play that for the Story as well.
I like World of Warcraft for the way I experience my own small part of the world story, I'm just a lone adventurer, who travels through a dangerous world - and sometimes groups up with other adventurers to battle the evils of the world . That's what I like about it.

I disagree that story-telling has never been a strong point. Sure Warcraft has been plagued by overusing the absolute evil vs good motif, but there have been no shortage of compelling stories and characters.

If you play the campaign of Warcraft 3, I think that becomes apparent. From the redemption storyline for the orc campaign, culminating with Grom Hellscream's death, to the introduction of Illidan, and the fall of Arthas, very enjoyable dialogue and world-building is to be found everywhere. You never feel like the story is overly easy to except, and most, if not all things, hit you with great surprise.

In the old RTS games, there are countless back-stabbings, unexpected deaths, and alterations of major characters (slightly less dramatic now than Kerrigan and Arthas are two of the biggest villians in Blizzard history and they both follow the corrupted story arc)

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I diasagree, but I think we'v had that discussion before. I think the questing experience was lackluster overall, nothing was really memorable, zones like Spires was disjointed and jarring - one minute you're working on a long (and somewhat boring) Arrkoa questline...then suddenly I'm saving goblins? And yes, WAY too short. Criminally short, but we know why now - they gutted the middle, they sacrified the story of the Shadow Council and Shattrath to get to work on Legion faster, not gearing - Ion admitted that recently.

I think the overall expansion was so bad, in comparison the questing was the best part - but when you compare it to the other expansions, it falls very, very, short. Even Cata had a great questing experience, even though people understandably didn't like Vash'jir.

They can do much, much, much better, and I think that's a lot of the disapointment there. We know they can.

Warlords of Draenor questing was actually an area where I strongly felt that the gameplay > story design philosphy actually hurt the game.

You're supposed to be in this dangerous, vicious landscape, but you have easy travel all across the map, monsters almost never pose a huge threat to you (with the exception of rares), and you never actually feel dis-empowered or that you're on a vast, dangerous, and "savage" world.

I would have enjoyed the questing experience much, much more if the difficulty closer reflected the harshness of a world like Draenor. If you didn't have all this support from your garrison but instead had to go through the zones in a fashion similar to Vanilla questing. If they had designed the environment, game-play, etc to reflect that story, it would have been absolutely amazing.

[Grimsparkle]

Back in 2011, lead designer Jeff Kaplan on WoW quest text: "...we need to stop writing a f-ing book in our game, because nobody wants to read it." They began to get away from the traditional get wrapped up in the lore/world/why am I doing this. There was a bit of a renaissance with MoP but I think it was because there was so much new material.

[Florena]

I disagree that story-telling has never been a strong point. Sure Warcraft has been plagued by overusing the absolute evil vs good motif, but there have been no shortage of compelling stories and characters.

If you play the campaign of Warcraft 3, I think that becomes apparent. From the redemption storyline for the orc campaign, culminating with Grom Hellscream's death, to the introduction of Illidan, and the fall of Arthas, very enjoyable dialogue and world-building is to be found everywhere. You never feel like the story is overly easy to except, and most, if not all things, hit you with great surprise.

In the old RTS games, there are countless back-stabbings, unexpected deaths, and alterations of major characters (slightly less dramatic now than Kerrigan and Arthas are two of the biggest villians in Blizzard history and they both follow the corrupted story arc)

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Warlords of Draenor questing was actually an area where I strongly felt that the gameplay > story design philosphy actually hurt the game.

You're supposed to be in this dangerous, vicious landscape, but you have easy travel all across the map, monsters almost never pose a huge threat to you (with the exception of rares), and you never actually feel dis-empowered or that you're on a vast, dangerous, and "savage" world.

I would have enjoyed the questing experience much, much more if the difficulty closer reflected the harshness of a world like Draenor. If you didn't have all this support from your garrison but instead had to go through the zones in a fashion similar to Vanilla questing. If they had designed the environment, game-play, etc to reflect that story, it would have been absolutely amazing.

Yeah they didn't do a very good job of making the Iron Horde feel as menacing/threatening as they were supposed to be. While there were moments and stories within WoD I liked, the overall story I feel wasn't very good even in quests.

[Deleted]

In WoW, previously, story was mostly told in dungeons and raids. Quests were mostly generic and didn't really have much in common with the "big story". It was mostly small things happening in different zones. That differentiation helped a lot to make the main story feel epic (because it's told in a special way where you had to actually fight for the right to see it), while also have lots of small stories on the side to make the world feel big and alive.
Now, they're trying too hard to tell the main story through quests, which pigeonholes the story into the main story and (almost) nothing else and it also doesn't feel so epic when you're not unlocking the story after a hard boss fight together with dozens of other players.

Another differentiation in story telling is that previously, we were a bunch of nobodies (small) in midst of epic events (big). Now, we are legendary heroes (big). This perspective change automatically makes the events seem less epic (not so big).


But the quality of story didn't change much, imo. It was never really good. The story has never been the reason why most people kept playing Blizzard games. Especially with WoW it was a completely different kind of story that was so good. The individual stories of each player. The stories of social experiences, stories of laughing together and raging together, guild chat and guild dramas, etc. That's what made WoW so mind blowing, not the actually story of the game.

[Undeadprotoss]

Back in 2011, lead designer Jeff Kaplan on WoW quest text: "...we need to stop writing a f-ing book in our game, because nobody wants to read it." They began to get away from the traditional get wrapped up in the lore/world/why am I doing this. There was a bit of a renaissance with MoP but I think it was because there was so much new material.

I hadn't realized he had said that. Now that I know that though, it's important to say; Jeff Kaplan is a good guy, I've seen him talk about the Overwatch beta, and it's clear that he cares deeply about player feedback and enjoyment of the game.

That aside, I do think that paradigm is the wrong way to go about things. You can't forget that having a hugely expansive base of well-wrritten story is a huge boon to the game as a whole. The less developers care about story, the less they will go out of their way to ensure everything within the game is internally consistent, the less of an impact the world-building has on game-play. That results in a situation where the world is far less immersive, far less magical. I love Jeff to death, and I'm only saying this because I feel I have to, but I think he's forgetting we are playing a game where orcs use the powers of lighting to bring down undead monstrosities, where undead players fight back against a dogmatically religious scarlet crusade, etc.

Video game story-telling is a serious medium, sure it has constraints, sure it has restrictions and demands that aren't really parallel for another form of media like a written novel, but beautiful stories can be told through it nonetheless.

I briefly mentioned the Scarlet Crusade, I want to point out that they are some of the all-time favorite villains for many lore-junkies and players alike. That's because they are a well-written and in some ways complex faction. For those reasons, they are memorable to players, and they help immerse you as a player into World of Warcraft.

Is there truth to the idea that, in some ways, story telling can become cumbersome one hundred percent, I won't lie, as a lore fanatic, there are times when I feel momentarily bored while reading through the manual, yes sometimes quest text can go on and on, but that does not mean one should pivot in the complete opposite direction. Sometimes quest-text and other facilitators of story can be too much.

But the same is true of any other medium. If a crime novel isn't written well, it can start to feel boring, it can have you not wanting to read it, that's simply a matter of editing and telling a good, quality story. The dialogue in Starcraft 1, Brood War, and Warcraft 3 was superbly well voice-acted for the most part, the characters were compelling, and usually pieces of dialogue lasted no longer than say 3-4 minutes. That small sacrifice of time between RTS missions literally created the massive, expansive universe that we have today, and drew millions of players into those worlds. It is foolhardy to abandon that because of issues relating more to editing and good writing, than to the actual willingness/desire of the player to consume the story.

[Deleted]

Back in 2011, lead designer Jeff Kaplan on WoW quest text: "...we need to stop writing a f-ing book in our game, because nobody wants to read it." They began to get away from the traditional get wrapped up in the lore/world/why am I doing this. There was a bit of a renaissance with MoP but I think it was because there was so much new material.

He was right, people where already in BC running arround with addons that told them where to go cause nobody cared about reading and finding out the goal themself. Lorefans did always exist but the broad audience wouldn't reward serious time investment in quest texts and the lorefans had still the books. It's only logical they cut back and added gps for quests as a default feature. It takes away from the adventure of course but that's what the broad masses already did with addons and websites by themself.

[Undeadprotoss]

He was right, people where already in BC running arround with addons that told them where to go cause nobody cared about reading and finding out the goal themself. Lorefans did always exist but the broad audience wouldn't reward serious time investment in quest texts and the lorefans had still the books. It's only logical they cut back and added gps for quests as a default feature. It takes away from the adventure of course but that's what the broad masses already did with addons and websites by themself.

I think the problem with quest-text is that unless it's very well-written, it tends to be feel static. With the old RTS games, you had all of the characters professionally voice acted, and honestly, I enjoyed hearing them speak, even if it was for something simple like explaining the mechanics of the next mission. There needs to be some equivalent medium in WoW wherein, people are engaged! The medium itself has to give you a tiny dopamine bump as well for people to be willing to care.

[Deleted]

Back in 2011, lead designer Jeff Kaplan on WoW quest text: "...we need to stop writing a f-ing book in our game, because nobody wants to read it." They began to get away from the traditional get wrapped up in the lore/world/why am I doing this. There was a bit of a renaissance with MoP but I think it was because there was so much new material.

That quote from Jeff Kaplan makes sense. He didn't say "we have to stop pushing the story". He said "quest texts are stupid". And he didn't say this in 2011 but in 2009. And after he said that, they started pushing more and more those "scenarios" where the story is told to you, by action and voice acting and sometimes cutscenes, instead of quest texts. That was the right decision. I can't remember any important story quest from BC (that didn't lead into dungeon or raids). I can remember many WotlK quests or the Uldum quests where you fight alongside Harrison Jones. Those were good quests. Before wotlk (or cataclysm) quests were mostly "kill x amount of y. the arbitrary reason is in the quest text"

I think the problem with quest-text is that unless it's very well-written, it tends to be feel static. With the old RTS games, you had all of the characters professionally voice acted, and honestly, I enjoyed hearing them speak, even if it was for something simple like explaining the mechanics of the next mission. There needs to be some equivalent medium in WoW wherein, people are engaged! The medium itself has to give you a tiny dopamine bump as well for people to be willing to care.

yeah, nobody wants to stop the gameplay and just read quest texts. I'm sure those who do it, don't do it because it enriches their experience, but because it's the only way to get the story pieces of all those quests.
Gameplay is the most important part of a game. No matter how good the story, if the gameplay sucks, it's a bad game. No matter how bad the story, if the gameplay is amazing, it's a good game.

[Seefer]

I somewhat agree, and this is something I've noticed as well. Since Cataclysm, Blizzard's MO has been "we want to deliver epic events." But instead it comes across as trying too hard. The game becomes overblown and cartoonish, and the story gets lost.

Really though, the change seems to have been gradual. I started playing WoW in 2005, and I remember reading this NYT article about the game which ended with the following quote from Metzen: "You might spend hundreds of hours playing a game like this, and why would you keep coming back? Is it just for the next magic helmet? Is it just to kill the next dragon? It has to be the story. We want you to care about these places and things so that, in addition to the adrenaline and the rewards of addictive gameplay, you have an emotional investment in the world. And that's what makes a great game."

That sentiment - story comes before gameplay - was echoed widely at the time. I remember reading about all the handwringing involved in whether or not to let druids even be playable (lorewise, they were only a Night Elven and male class), seeing devs talk about the firm reasons behind class restrictions, seeing why the Forsaken start off only neutral with other factions, etc. I remember when both the players and developers took the lore so seriously that Metzen himself had to come to the forums to apologize for the Draenei retcon. And you know what? The seriousness with which Blizzard approached its lore made the game all the better for that.

Since then, the mantra has become "gameplay first, story second", and you can feel it in all their design decisions, from the heavily-optimized zone designs, to the homogenized classes, to the removal of most class restrictions, to the constant retcons and general 'who gives a damn about the firmness of the story' that seems to have guided all of WoD. As Metzen had said, the story is what creates an emotional investment, and as long as they keep punting it into the back seat, the game will keep feeling more than a little empty.

Because the community stopped caring about the story when they brought in the CoD/Console crowd, they just want to get to max level (and a shit ton of people have said they hate leveling) and raid completely ignoring what lead up to said raid.

[Verdugo]

yeah, nobody wants to stop the gameplay and just read quest texts. I'm sure those who do it, don't do it because it enriches their experience, but because it's the only way to get the story pieces of all those quests.
Gameplay is the most important part of a game. No matter how good the story, if the gameplay sucks, it's a bad game. No matter how bad the story, if the gameplay is amazing, it's a good game.

Thats why Soul Reaver is greatly praised even though the gameplay consisted of shitty block puzzles?

[Fang7986]

I have to wonder though just how many of the people playing WoW actually care about the story at all. Considering the number of people who hate seem to hate quests and seem to want to skip everything but pvp and raids, I have a feeling its a small percentage of players who care about the story.

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I think the problem with quest-text is that unless it's very well-written, it tends to be feel static. With the old RTS games, you had all of the characters professionally voice acted, and honestly, I enjoyed hearing them speak, even if it was for something simple like explaining the mechanics of the next mission. There needs to be some equivalent medium in WoW wherein, people are engaged! The medium itself has to give you a tiny dopamine bump as well for people to be willing to care.

See I hate voice over stuff because I can read the text 3 or 4 times before the voice acting is done. I'd rather read then hear someone speak any day

[thottstation]

Because you are older and can recognize mediocre narratives better. If you have a favorite movie or book from when you were a kid, be wary about going back and reading/watching it, you may ruin the nostalgia.

"There's a certain kind of very stupid person – several whom, no doubt, will be queuing up to post below this blog – who responds to critiques like this with: "Yes. But it's meant for children. Not for grown-ups." To which I'd reply, well yes – and so, originally, was The Simpsons. And so was Lord of the Rings. And so was The Railway Children. And so was Harry Potter. Do you think in any of these cases Matt Groening or JRR Tolkien or E Nesbit or JK Rowling said to themselves before setting about their endeavours: "The great thing is I can make this really rubbish because it's only for kids."

[Celarent]

It's as though after Wrath, Michael Bay's Transformers was put on a projector — then Metzen gathered senior management, pointed at the movie and said, "This is us, now. Yeah." And then he bodybuilder-flexed or something.

What Blizzard seems to miss is that replay value comes directly from story. And all it really needs are basics correct; no groundbreaking required. Just characters people can relate to, villains with interesting but clear motivations, and a conflict that's relevant between the two.

I'd say it's not all doom and gloom. The Legion cinematic surprised me. I can't think of as emotionally engaging a narrative since Warcraft 3. Even though, sure, there was some Marvel hamming, I looked at Varian thinking "Hey, I didn't know he thought tenderly like this. I hope he's okay," and looked at Sylvanas thinking, "Hey, even she can put differences aside for a greater good." Dead-simple but it worked. I've enjoyed rewatching the trailer because it's an experience, not just an information transmission. And if this kind of storytelling were in dungeons and raids, I'd replay them much more readily because I wanted to relive them.