Page 13 of 17 FirstFirst ...
3
11
12
13
14
15
... LastLast
  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    "Poor life choices" is not a sufficient explanation for the fact that black people are suspected more often of committing crimes and then disproportionately arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced. It's not a sufficient explanation for the fact that black minors are disproportionately disciplined at school, and are disproportionately sent to juvenile detention (or tried as adults) over infractions for which white minors get probation. It's not a sufficient explanation for the fact that black applicants for everything from employment to health and financial services are disproportionately rejected while white applicants with similar (or worse) histories are not.

    A black job applicant without a criminal record has the same chance of getting a callback for a job interview as a white applicant with a criminal record. A black household close to median income is statistically likely to have less household wealth than a white household with a lower income. "Poor life choices" doesn't explain that. "Poor life choices" doesn't explain why Eric Garner, Sandra Bland, Oscar Grant, and countless others are dead, nor why their deaths were necessary. "Poor life choices" doesn't explain why the predominantly black suburb of Flint, Michigan was drinking poisoned water for over a fucking year.

    "Racism is just socialism for mediocre white people," however, is a perfectly adequate explanation for the rhetorical choices you're making.
    Poor life choices is a good explanation from why black people are suspected more often of committing crimes though, it's not the only reason but it is a large portion of the equation. Something like having a kid when you are not able to afford it, and then resorting to crime to make financial ends meet is one example. Or dropping out of school. Or developing an early criminal record (which then results in future arrests and convictions). It's also a big portion of the reason for why blacks are disproportionately disciplined at school - if they are committing more violent acts or disrupting the rules of the classroom, which all evidence points to, the expected result is happening. When referring to whites committing the same acts, I have yet to see any studies that bring up students that have a history of breaking school rules, if you have something that takes this into account, feel free to post it, otherwise you don't have a point.

    Now I do agree that black people not getting hired because of their race is bullshit, but on the flip side, affirmative action exists which pretty much does the opposite, helping minorities, that aren't the most qualified get jobs over white people. So this issue is a 2 way street.

    As for your stat about black households being less likely to have household wealth, have you considered because of said households being in high crime areas? That would go back to "poor life choices" then.

    Eric Garner made a wealth of poor life choices, look at his criminal record. On his last day on earth, he was resisting a lawful arrest even. Sandra Bland is another, I mean who behaves like that with a police officer?

    And Flint had water issues because of poor choices made on a grand scale. The city was in dire poverty, the main reason for the water change was to save money.

  2. #242
    My kids would not being going back to that school if a teacher (a god damned teacher) told them to feel shitty about themselves because of the color of their skin. It's straight up racist and bullying. We have had years of anti bully campaigns to stop this exact kind of thing from happening at schools and then an entire administration thought it would be a good idea to bully kindergarteners about their skin color. This is a joke of an institution that should lose a vast majority of its funding/students. Why would any parent of a white child pay money for their kid to be bully,ridiculed, and have racist hate thrown at them?

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    I just don't understand why skin color comes into the equation, shouldn't we help all who need regardless of their skin color?
    well the country was segregated by skin color for so long that thats where a lot of issues lie. but thats not the *only* factor taken into account. cant pretend that something doesnt exist if you want to fix it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kapadons View Post
    My kids would not being going back to that school if a teacher (a god damned teacher) told them to feel shitty about themselves because of the color of their skin. It's straight up racist and bullying. We have had years of anti bully campaigns to stop this exact kind of thing from happening at schools and then an entire administration thought it would be a good idea to bully kindergarteners about their skin color. This is a joke of an institution that should lose a vast majority of its funding/students. Why would any parent of a white child pay money for their kid to be bully,ridiculed, and have racist hate thrown at them?
    i doubt they are trying to make the kids feel bad, more like, have some compassion for others. the op is pretty sensationalized vs the actual program.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Xires View Post
    Yet...they are. Why? Because it is now ok to be hateful and racist towards whites because the liberals say so and the liberals are filled with hate and anti-white racism. They even claim that you can't be racist against white people. lol
    Yeah, I heard that nonsense too. It is amazing to me that any person that is even remotely intelligent could believe any of this bs.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    well the country was segregated by skin color for so long that thats where a lot of issues lie. but thats not the *only* factor taken into account. cant pretend that something doesnt exist if you want to fix it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    i doubt they are trying to make the kids feel bad, more like, have some compassion for others. the op is pretty sensationalized vs the actual program.
    Never said it doesn't exist, it's just that people are one-sided and ignore everything else. To say white people have white privilege is nothing more than a stereotype and stereotypes don't apply to the individual as people of any skin color have problems they deal with due to their environment they are born into.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    Never said it doesn't exist, it's just that people are one-sided and ignore everything else. To say white people have white privilege is nothing more than a stereotype and stereotypes don't apply to the individual as people of any skin color have problems they deal with due to their environment they are born into.
    but that is factually wrong, i have already linked a study showing that white people are more likely to be hired.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    but that is factually wrong, i have already linked a study showing that white people are more likely to be hired.
    Ok well I'm not going back through all the pages, I'd love to see this study you got and it's sample size. I could go on and on but people choose to see skin color, I choose to see the person, I don't give a fuck what your color is.

  8. #248
    i truly believe to stop racism? just dont bring it up at all. that includes all sources of media..and comedy..yes comedy..

  9. #249
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Waycross, GA
    Posts
    8,227
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    but that is factually wrong, i have already linked a study showing that white people are more likely to be hired.
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    "In response to help-wanted ads in Chicago and Boston newspapers......

    In total, the authors responded to more than 1,300 employment ads in the sales, administrative support, clerical, and customer services job categories, sending out nearly 5,000 resumes. The ads covered a large spectrum of job quality, from cashier work at retail establishments and clerical work in a mailroom to office and sales management positions.

    If the fictitious resume indicates that the applicant lives in a wealthier, or more educated, or more-white neighborhood, the callback rate rises. Interestingly, this effect does not differ by race."

    Black people who live in a ghetto are less likely, as in they are considered, to be hired for "white collar" work. Yes there is a stigma against black people who live in ghettos. Can you guess why that is?

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    "In response to help-wanted ads in Chicago and Boston newspapers......

    In total, the authors responded to more than 1,300 employment ads in the sales, administrative support, clerical, and customer services job categories, sending out nearly 5,000 resumes. The ads covered a large spectrum of job quality, from cashier work at retail establishments and clerical work in a mailroom to office and sales management positions.

    If the fictitious resume indicates that the applicant lives in a wealthier, or more educated, or more-white neighborhood, the callback rate rises. Interestingly, this effect does not differ by race."

    Black people who live in a ghetto are less likely, as in they are considered, to be hired for "white collar" work. Yes there is a stigma against black people who live in ghettos. Can you guess why that is?
    way to cherry pick.
    In total, the authors responded to more than 1,300 employment ads in the sales, administrative support, clerical, and customer services job categories, sending out nearly 5,000 resumes. The ads covered a large spectrum of job quality, from cashier work at retail establishments and clerical work in a mailroom to office and sales management positions.

    The results indicate large racial differences in callback rates to a phone line with a voice mailbox attached and a message recorded by someone of the appropriate race and gender. Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback. This would suggest either employer prejudice or employer perception that race signals lower productivity.

    The 50 percent gap in callback rates is statistically very significant, Bertrand and Mullainathan note in Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination (NBER Working Paper No. 9873). It indicates that a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller.
    but yes, perceived class also plays a part.

  11. #251
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Waycross, GA
    Posts
    8,227
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    way to cherry pick.

    but yes, perceived class also plays a part.
    It isn't cherry picking when that one sentence refutes the entire premise that "people with black names have a harder time getting jobs." It should be "people with black names that also live in a ghetto have a harder time getting a job but people who live in nicer neighborhoods, whether with black or white sounding names, don't have as hard a time."

    I'm not arguing that the survey is wrong, it's just the authors are taking the wrong conclusion from it. You also have to factor in that they did this survey in Chicago and Boston. Both have pretty rough ghettos from my understanding.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    When referring to whites committing the same acts, I have yet to see any studies that bring up students that have a history of breaking school rules, if you have something that takes this into account, feel free to post it, otherwise you don't have a point.
    Another thing I won't believe: That you even bothered to look.

    Now I do agree that black people not getting hired because of their race is bullshit, but on the flip side, affirmative action exists which pretty much does the opposite, helping minorities, that aren't the most qualified get jobs over white people. So this issue is a 2 way street.
    Because of course you believe that any black applicant that got a job over a white applicant got it because of your vague and racist understanding of Affirmative Action, which, of course, makes them de facto unqualified.

    As for your stat about black households being less likely to have household wealth, have you considered because of said households being in high crime areas? That would go back to "poor life choices" then.
    The fuck is this even supposed to mean? First, we're talking about middle-income black families, so either you're assuming that all black families - poor, middle-class, and rich - live in racially segregated, crime saturated ghettos, or you don't understand in order to leave a crime-saturated ghetto you need access to credit and that takes collateral, and that banks are less likely to give valuable credit to black households, and more likely to give them predatory credit (for example, subprime loans) that ends up further reducing their household wealth. "You have to have money to make money" is a cliche for a reason.

    Even if its the case of a poorer neighborhood dragging down household wealth (via, say, lower property values), how in the Seven Hells is that a "poor life choice?" That household is not choosing to live there. It is choosing to leave, and not being afforded the means that would otherwise exist but for their blackness.

    Eric Garner made a wealth of poor life choices, look at his criminal record. On his last day on earth, he was resisting a lawful arrest even. Sandra Bland is another, I mean who behaves like that with a police officer?
    Eric Garner was arrested for selling cigarettes. When he verbally protested, he was choked to death by a police officer. Sandra Bland was arrested for not putting out a cigarette. They found her a day later dead in her cell. When they tell you "Smoking Kills," they generally don't mean by the conscious action or stunning negligence of police officers. Oscar Grant, by the way, was shot in the back while handcuffed and laying on the pavement of a train station. Tell me: Over what "poor life choice" should one expect to die in that manner? Going out with friends on New Years Eve?

    And Flint had water issues because of poor choices made on a grand scale. The city was in dire poverty, the main reason for the water change was to save money.
    Many places in Michigan were and are in dire fiscal straights, but funny how the predominantly black cities were placed under the auspices of politically-connected, undemocratic emergency managers more frequently. And it wasn't because black cities were more financially distressed, it was because they were black:

    "While the State’s objective fiscal scoring of local political units explains a great deal in terms of the distribution of EPI, black population is also an independently significant predictor. When we control for fiscal score, the odds of intervention in a local political unit (e.g. city, township, school district) increase by 50% for every 10 percentage-point increase in the local black population."

    It's almost like the assumption by white racists that black people can't govern themselves has an actual policy impact to the physical detriment of black people. How could you have know? If only black activists told you this sooner.... but I guess they were too busy not caring about black on black crime to bother.
    Last edited by Slybak; 2016-07-03 at 03:29 PM.

  13. #253
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Sure it does. As do lots of other things.
    I think a lot of trailer park trash would disagree with you.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    Another thing I won't believe: That you even bothered to look.
    Your link didn't dispute what I said though. When I said history, I'm referring to repeat offenders in the classroom. Much like the studies that criticize the government for punishing blacks "more severely than whites" yet do not factor in repeat offenders into their statistics. For example, if a white student get into a fight at school, he may get suspended. If a black student gets into a fight, he may get suspended as well, but the second time he gets into a fight, the student gets expelled. The statistic would simply read that the black student got into a fight and got expelled, compared to the white student who only got suspended. These statistics almost always ignore the aspect of people that have a history of violating the rules, in the end giving a deceptive look at the problem.

    Because of course you believe that any black applicant that got a job over a white applicant got it because of your vague and racist understanding of Affirmative Action, which, of course, makes them de facto unqualified.
    Nobody is saying that all blacks benefit from affirmative action, but the fact that some are is a problem. Affirmative Action is racial discrimination plain and simple, and if you truly live up to your words, you'd be against all forms of racism. Even I said that hiring people based off of their race is wrong, now it's your turn to say the same.

    The fuck is this even supposed to mean? First, we're talking about middle-income black families, so either you're assuming that all black families - poor, middle-class, and rich - live in racially segregated, crime saturated ghettos, or you don't understand in order to leave a crime-saturated ghetto you need access to credit and that takes collateral, and that banks are less likely to give valuable credit to black households, and more likely to give them predatory credit (for example, subprime loans) that ends up further reducing their household wealth. "You have to have money to make money" is a cliche for a reason.

    Even if its the case of a poorer neighborhood dragging down household wealth (via, say, lower property values), how in the Seven Hells is that a "poor life choice?" That household is not choosing to live there. It is choosing to leave, and not being afforded the means that would otherwise exist but for their blackness.
    Do you have a link that black families with the same income as white families are still less likely to get a loan? If that is true, I would agree that is extremely unfair, but from what I can see most studies only factor in the race, and not the wealth or credit score of said applicants, despite of course being completely relevant.

    Eric Garner was arrested for selling cigarettes. When he verbally protested, he was choked to death by a police officer. Sandra Bland was arrested for not putting out a cigarette. They found her a day later dead in her cell. When they tell you "Smoking Kills," they generally don't mean by the conscious action or stunning negligence of police officers. Oscar Grant, by the way, was shot in the back while handcuffed and laying on the pavement of a train station. Tell me: Over what "poor life choice" should one expect to die in that manner? Going out with friends on New Years Eve?
    The problem is that Eric Garner didn't just verbally protest, he physically resisted his arrest, despite it being lawful. Now I do personally feel in that case the cops should've eased up on him, but he did make it clear that he wasn't going down without a fight so he shares a lot of the blame in what took place. As a white person, if I resisted arrest in the same way that he did, I would expect the same treatment. As for Sandra Bland, unless there's any evidence of foul play, why assume that the cops would simply kill her? The lady obviously had mental issues and had attempted suicide previously. I don't know much about Oscar Grant so I won't go into him, but I'm not saying there are no cases of racism or that there is no police corruption - there obviously is, just look at Officer Michael Sleger. That being said the race card is used excessively and in cases where nothing suggests it other than "the cop was white and I am black". It ultimately kills the credibility of other claims in the process.

    Many places in Michigan were and are in dire fiscal straights, but funny how the predominantly black cities were placed under the auspices of politically-connected, undemocratic emergency managers more frequently. And it wasn't because black cities were more financially distressed, it was because they were black.

    "While the State’s objective fiscal scoring of local political units explains a great deal in terms of the distribution of EPI, black population is also an independently significant predictor. When we control for fiscal score, the odds of intervention in a local political unit (e.g. city, township, school district) increase by 50% for every 10 percentage-point increase in the local black population."
    Many places in Michigan are in bad shape but Flint is one of the worst in the nation overall, and in a variety of measures. To imply that this deliberately happened because the citizens are mostly black is beyond a lie however. The crisis happened because of the financial emergency the city experienced, which lead to looking for a cheaper source for water, which would save millions of dollars. They had no choice but to have emergency managers in their scenario. The real issue is that he people who tested the water initially lied and said it was safe. I do not disagree that massive mistakes were made, but attribute it to race is just grabbing the low hanging fruit and avoiding trying to dig into the real causes of the issue.

    From what I can see the "undemocratic emergency managers" more often appointed to Flint were done so because the cities conditions were the worst (hard to believe there is a place worse than Detroit, I know). Flint, like all of the other cities, only had 1 emergency manager at a time though, and if you add up the time of all the emergency managers together in Flint, it is roughly the same amount of time that other cities in Michigan had their emergency managers.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    At least based on the article, it's possible that it goes too far, but I do think children should be taught about diversity in a more explicit manner. A lot of children, myself included, grew up in rather homogeneous areas, so the idea of people who were different in any way was some sort of thing that vaguely existed somewhere far from here, rather than a reality. I think that inadvertently leads to developing an unrecognized perception that everywhere and everything is roughly the same as you have experienced it and that perception may very well not be challenged until after you're an adult.
    The problem is the left wing professors think diversity comes from skin color. Just because a person is black does not mean he has a different personality than a white kid

  16. #256
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    The problem is the left wing professors think diversity comes from skin color. Just because a person is black does not mean he has a different personality than a white kid
    Let's look at this in the more dangerous reverse. These regressives are basically forcing black people into thinking "You're not white, you're different and inferior!"

    It's literally racism.

  17. #257
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    That's certainly what right wing people keep telling me. Maybe it's just a case of right wing people thinking left wing people think diversity only comes from skin color.
    Why is it the left bringing up things like the OP in this thread then?

    White people are born racist sounds very much like racist profiling to me.

  18. #258
    Deleted
    When moronic shit social justice arguments don't hold water against thinking adults, target children instead and indoctrinate them Catholic church style.

    The cancer continues to spread.

  19. #259
    Deleted
    Man, this makes me sad. Don't they realize how much harm they're doing to those children?

  20. #260
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Обединени социалистически щати на Америка
    Posts
    28,394
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    The problem is the left wing professors think diversity comes from skin color. Just because a person is black does not mean he has a different personality than a white kid
    I've seen these so called 'left-wingers' also advocate or agree to rigth-wing economic ideas, I would hardly call them true left wingers.
    SJWs are an insult to the classic left.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •