Should the EU dissolve?

[Deleted]

No, but it should seriously reform.

[Deleted]

I don't think the EU members would start fighting each other without the EU. With or without the EU they are dependent on each other for trade and goods.

They are dependent on EU to tell them how curvy a cucumber can be.

[Cosmic Janitor]

They are dependent on EU to tell them how curvy a cucumber can be.

They defined basic standards as to what counts as proper wares, taking malformed, parasite invested, underdeveloped, broken or otherwise unsalable products out before they waste time and effort shipping them across Europe, often even just for "high grade foods". There was never a nominal curvature requirements in degree or radiant measurement.

[Tuor]

Given all the problems that the EU brings to each member country (loss of sovereignty), do you think the EU should dissolve as a policy setting organization, but keep the Euro so that each country doesn't have to have different exchange rates between them?

Great Britain is a prime example of why this is a legitimate question. Them leaving the EU proves that at least in some part, the EU doesn't work as a policy setting organization.

Each member country gives up certain rights to agree to the policies set by the European Union, and I think this is a HUGE negative.

Or, should the European Union become a large country, and each member country would be a state within that country no longer identified as a country? This would mean each country would have to give up even more rights and identity as a country to become a part of one large centrally ruled country.

Thoughts?

I've always been a pro-union supporter, until the recent economical crisis. Today, my thoughs slowly start to diverge from my previous pro-unionist POV.

The reason is not, like brits, nacionalism, but instead the economic survival and wealth of some periferical countries such has mine, Portugal. And i don't think that any country in the world can survive on wellfare at the same time they not allowed to develop by Brussels implemented politics. The case of my country was that we have been given money to shut down boats, given money for this and for that, have been forced to accept union quoatas that always favor central europe countries. The ones of central europe, normally, always have excess quoatas, whille periferical ones are given just a fraction. One example, its ridiculus when we reach the sardine max quoata, and then been forced to import the very same sardine that was fished in your own waters by foreign ships.

In the other hand, the bigger economical power of central europe countries can put products here at a lower cust, due to mass production, then the very same products produced here. And in this is aniliating local economy.

The idea of the union was to share, if i have fish, other has milk, and another has wheat, then lets unite and form a union. Instead what is happening is that central europe countries have it all, and they impose quoatas that keep other countries buying their products whille the periferical countries are not allowed to produce them.

No country in the world can run on wellfare, and they forced us to be on wellfare, and they did even worst, they ashamed us for that. The recent economical crisis revealed the fragilities of this system. Being an advanced economy Germany should have been facing similar efects to the ones of Japan, that is, stagnation. But they somehow managed to keep growing, and how do they do that? Well, they enslave economies, the very same that are not allowed to produce, they transfered the economical stagnation that should have been affecting their country to periferical ones, and then when those economies blowed up, they ashamed them.

I don't like to be forces to live in a country that has been forced to live on wellfare, so my POV, has recently changed a lot in the last couple years, this desunion can't keep going on, its not the rich central europe people sustaining the poor ones, but the poor periferical ones sutaining the rich one.

Today, i would vote for Portugal to leave the union.

[Baelic]

Not only should the EU NOT dissolve, but we need the idea expanded to the rest of the world, why? Because capitalism and corporations will do it for us, and then greed will truly run the world and anarchy will reign.

[Tinch]

Not only should the EU NOT dissolve, but we need the idea expanded to the rest of the world, why? Because capitalism and corporations will do it for us, and then greed will truly run the world and anarchy will reign.

The EU has served to help multi-national companies though, and agreements like TTIP are only set to make that even worse

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[Wikiy]

The EU has served to help multi-national companies though, and agreements like TTIP are only set to make that even worse

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How is that the case? TTIP actually hurts some companies because it sets out restrictive standards - it takes money to make your products meet those standards. And some products are outright banned in the EU.

[ati87]

I don't think the EU members would start fighting each other without the EU. With or without the EU they are dependent on each other for trade and goods.

So destroy the thing that worked so well?

God and people call anti vaxxer stupid when they use this type of argument.

[Cosmic Janitor]

How is that the case? TTIP actually hurts some companies because it sets out restrictive standards - it takes money to make your products meet those standards. And some products are outright banned in the EU.

It's also not like these trades wouldn't happen otherwise. If anything the EU gave every country a better position because you now argue with a "country" of 500 million and not 5 million. Though I have to admit that the latest leaked draft looked disgusting. I hope that the individual countries veto it.

[Deleted]

It's also not like these trades wouldn't happen otherwise. If anything the EU gave every country a better position because you now argue with a "country" of 500 million and not 5 million. Though I have to admit that the latest leaked draft looked disgusting. I hope that the individual countries veto it.

Do you have a link to share?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Do you have a link to share?

Afaik the latest ones were the Greenpeace ones: https://www.ttip-leaks.org/

[Wikiy]

It's also not like these trades wouldn't happen otherwise. If anything the EU gave every country a better position because you now argue with a "country" of 500 million and not 5 million.

Yes, from a European perspective, the EU negotiating TTIP in the name of all the countries is great.

What I was replying to, though, was the claim that TTIP helps multinational companies (American ones). They have to meet up to the EU standards in order to sell their products to the European market, which has more restrictive standards than the US.

[tankbug]

No, it shouldn't dissolve. The last thing we need is more bullshit nationalism and "pride"..haha, what a fucking joke. Keep the flag fucking for football matches, and think global about important matters.

[Wikiy]

Afaik the latest ones were the Greenpeace ones: https://www.ttip-leaks.org/

Oh, lookie... "Big business". Almost makes me wanna not read it (and I say that as a socialist).

Edit: It's too extensive. :P Can anyone find exactly the parts that are so controversial?

[Deleted]

Oh, lookie... "Big business". Almost makes me wanna not read it (and I say that as a socialist).

The least Greenpeace could've done was to reference paragraphs in the documents where it's stated that big businesses gain power over us citizens. Your average citizen is not going to read through 200 pages of lawyer language, our freedom is not that important.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Yes, from a European perspective, the EU negotiating TTIP in the name of all the countries is great.

What I was replying to, though, was the claim that TTIP helps multinational companies (American ones). They have to meet up to the EU standards in order to sell their products to the European market, which has more restrictive standards than the US.

Not really sure if you try to make a case for or against the EU, I tried to make one for it. When it comes to standards that is also not universally true. The EU "CE" seal for example can be applied by anyone who things they meet the standards, where the US often likes to see a UL one which can be a pain in the ass, as you have to actually show your product to them. CCC (Chinese one) is even worse, as they can ask you to show them all the design documents, you have to accommodate their testers in your company to prove standards and a lot of other shit.. When it comes to protectionism it's usually CE < UL < CCC.

[Spl4sh3r]

EU can stay, but they should really stop bailing out a failing country's economy. We didn't join EU to pay other countries. We joined EU to work together on issues that affects all the member countries, not single countries here and there.

[tankbug]

EU can stay, but they should really stop bailing out a failing country's economy. We didn't join EU to pay other countries. We joined EU to work together on issues that affects all the member countries, not single countries here and there.

You joined EU so you could get cheaper imports and labor, and in return you will contribute to EU so they can help the countries you exploit to get their shit together. Fair deal! You can't just reap the benefits, you must understand that it's a mutual beneficial arrangement.

[Deleted]

Can we get this locked please.

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And they are, the EU consists of sovereign countries, all this thread is good for is uninformed Americans giving their stupid opinion on things they don't understand.

It’s a valid thread and should be discussed. It’s very important at the moment. EU has become something that it should never happen, a EU superstate lead by unelected people/officials. The decisions that are made are in total disregard to the average citizen and favor multinationals and people need to wake up and realize it. Governments like you see in V for Vendetta or Equilibrium won’t be fictional for very long especially if you silence people...it should be discussed and read.

As for the OP, yes it should be dissolved.

Also, get off the main-stream media sources and find some alternative news sources. If you stay on the main-stream you won’t see whats actually happening.

[Spl4sh3r]

You joined EU so you could get cheaper imports and labor, and in return you will contribute to EU so they can help the countries you exploit to get their shit together. Fair deal! You can't just reap the benefits, you must understand that it's a mutual beneficial arrangement.

So us getting cheaper import from them and them getting cheaper import from us isn't equal? We have to do even extra for struggling ones?