Why do you think they underproduced the GTX 1070 and 1080 GPUS?

[Vash The Stampede]

So for us who don't know what you're referring to by "16nm process", "units", and "wafer", can you us simpler words? :P

Are you saying that basically the smaller the card and therefor the connections and things on the card are, the more meticulous it is to make it, thus slowing down the production? And are you also saying they launched a month early so they didn't have time to create a stockpile?

Here's a picture of how a wafer is used to make chips. Those spots are defects. Each chip that has a spot makes it broken, and can't be used. The bigger the chip, the more likely a defect will occur on it. And the 1070/1080 are fairly big chips. Unlike the RX 480's which are much smaller. And since AMD's 14nm FinFET came from Samsung, which has a lot of experience with manufacturing. So AMD's yeilds are higher, even though they have very low clock speeds compared to Nvidia's 16nm.

[Artorius]

The 14nm LPP process is from Samsung but AMD is buying wafers from both Samsung and GloFo.

Samsung and GloFo have some partnership between them which makes GloFo able to use Samsung's process, but the end result is questionable. GloFo isn't exactly a top tier manufacturer, but they might be a little better now since they acquired IBM's semiconductor division.

[JacobusRex]

I just wish AMD would get their act together and make comparable chips for less money. No heat issues, no production issues, no clock speed issues, none of that.

[MrPaladinGuy]

They could have pulled a Nintendo so they could claim it was "in demand" "sold out", and related logic.

or there's an issue with the TSMC fab.

But I think it just sold out very fast as I did read that on OCN a few days ago, but I'm not aware of how many sold in comparison to other architecture launches in similar amounts of time.

[Deleted]

I just wish AMD would get their act together and make comparable chips for less money. No heat issues, no production issues, no clock speed issues, none of that.

So Nvidia has no problems with the FE editions of the 1070/1080...

Some people...

[Replica]

The card wasn't underproduced, it was extremely high demand.
If I could print screen this backorders from distributors and nVidia, it would blow your mind. FYI: they are all in the 3000+ backorder status. Every single 1080.

[MrPaladinGuy]

The card wasn't underproduced, it was extremely high demand.
If I could print screen this backorders from distributors and nVidia, it would blow your mind. FYI: they are all in the 3000+ backorder status. Every single 1080.

The top OCN comments say it's the fastest a GPU has sold since the 8800 (for some reason), I was still using a BFG 6800 Ultra OC back then and didn't upgrade until a 9600 GT was $100. I imagine the 8800 sold out that fast because it was the top chip of that architecture after post processing effects basically required you to have a GPU with stream processors since post processing effects destroyed performance on GPU's using pixel pipelines. That's just a guess though.

[JacobusRex]

So Nvidia has no problems with the FE editions of the 1070/1080...

Some people...

I'm confused, are you blaming me for not wanting a crappy Founder's Edition or blaming them for releasing the FE 1070/80?

[Evildeffy]

The card wasn't underproduced, it was extremely high demand.
If I could print screen this backorders from distributors and nVidia, it would blow your mind. FYI: they are all in the 3000+ backorder status. Every single 1080.

That's funny... You're actually supporting what's being said.
I have contact with about 5 of the Netherlands' largest re/e-tailers and some contacts in my supplier chain here and in Germany and every single one says:
We're not getting the fking things from our suppliers/AIBs, the amount that trickles in is laughable and on launch day were less than amused when there were like ~5 shipped to the NL across almost all suppliers.

Yes they do have some backorders but not nearly as much as the RX 480 has even though supply of the RX 480 has been far larger than all GTX 1080s combined in Netherlands/Germany.

You can have a backorder list as long as 20.000 people it still doesn't change the fact that it was rushed and production wasn't and still isn't up to snuff.

[WarTV]

got my 1080 gtx FE on the 3rd day of release @ 780 euros. couldnt be happier. this beast is amazing.
@Missionary Jacobus how is the fe crappy ? can you elaborate ? based on all reviews from guru3d the after market 1080gtx are barely oc over the fe/ref cards due to the security nvidia has added on those cards.

[Deleted]

I'm confused, are you blaming me for not wanting a crappy Founder's Edition or blaming them for releasing the FE 1070/80?

I am not blaming you

Just pointing out that AMD is releasing a reference card first just as Nvidia. With all the problems those cards have, crappy coolers etc. The same problems the Nvidia FE cards have...
It would be smarter of AMD to just allow for custom models to be released as soon as possible... I don't get the whole reference only launch... -.-

[Deleted]

That's funny... You're actually supporting what's being said.
I have contact with about 5 of the Netherlands' largest re/e-tailers and some contacts in my supplier chain here and in Germany and every single one says:
We're not getting the fking things from our suppliers/AIBs, the amount that trickles in is laughable and on launch day were less than amused when there were like ~5 shipped to the NL across almost all suppliers.

Yes they do have some backorders but not nearly as much as the RX 480 has even though supply of the RX 480 has been far larger than all GTX 1080s combined in Netherlands/Germany.

You can have a backorder list as long as 20.000 people it still doesn't change the fact that it was rushed and production wasn't and still isn't up to snuff.

For reference, do you know how many of previous generations flagship cards were provided at launch?

[JacobusRex]

got my 1080 gtx FE on the 3rd day of release @ 780 euros. couldnt be happier. this beast is amazing.
@Missionary Jacobus how is the fe crappy ? can you elaborate ? based on all reviews from guru3d the after market 1080gtx are barely oc over the fe/ref cards due to the security nvidia has added on those cards.

See Below, my points exactly.

I am not blaming you

Just pointing out that AMD is releasing a reference card first just as Nvidia. With all the problems those cards have, crappy coolers etc. The same problems the Nvidia FE cards have...
It would be smarter of AMD to just allow for custom models to be released as soon as possible... I don't get the whole reference only launch... -.-

[Evildeffy]

For reference, do you know how many of previous generations flagship cards were provided at launch?

I can only tell you a ballpark figure for some of them which I cared about and asked for that I remember.

The R9 Fury (X)/Nano was atrocious but the least bitch of them all was the Fury X but still extremely limited number, across 4 suppliers there were under 10 in total.
That's suppliers and not re/e-tailers.

The R9 290(X) (skipping the R9 390(X) series because they were easily available due to ... well it being an upgraded R9 290(X) was available pretty well for a short time till miners got their hands on them when they confirmed it too was amazing for it creating a shortage, but our largest re-tailer had about ~150 in the first week and then shorted out later due to miners, the suppliers more but apparently they had internal employees getting them.
It was also these contacts which got me a HD5970 and HD6990 in house and in use in my personal rig 2 days before launch.

The HD7970 had a bit of a rocky start here in the NL because it wasn't available from the first week and a half orso after that they arrived pretty much en masse here without delays and very large quantities.

The 980 I honestly have no clue of because I never asked for them. (and because of #nojob at the time I was kinda not interested either)

The 780 was in good stock as well, probably around 1000 from our supplier in the first week, not asked from retailers.
(I sold quite a few of these, fairly well on stock)

The 1080/1070 however were atrociously bad, as I said a total amount of about 5 across all suppliers (FE of course) and then until about a week ago still a massive bitch to get as they would trickle in by 10 pieces a week orso.
1070s are now starting to trickle in by larger quantities (about 100 a week now) and the 1080s are still in the low 20s a week (custom designs of course).

The Netherlands is a small country yes but extremely densely populated and we have a very large number of re/e-tailers which compete fiercely in prices.
Our technological infrastructure is pretty damn good and people here upgrade for the most stupid reasons.

It's not even "because they can" or provide a valid reason for the most part but only "It's better and newer" ... makes me cry every time when a person that spends most of their time playing Minecraft or Diablo come up to me and ask me if I can upgrade their 780 to a 1070 so Diablo runs smoother.

On the upside for that we have a very active and cheap 2nd hand market for that and since in the EU warranty is sold on the product and not the person you can often pick up cheap stuff which is pretty good, like a 4960X, ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition and 32GB of RAM for 500 Euros.

[Lumineus]

So for us who don't know what you're referring to by "16nm process", "units", and "wafer", can you us simpler words? :P

Are you saying that basically the smaller the card and therefor the connections and things on the card are, the more meticulous it is to make it, thus slowing down the production? And are you also saying they launched a month early so they didn't have time to create a stockpile?

Microchips are made of glass, a really thin sheet of glass that's etched with acid and then the metal is melted into the etchings. Glass is a flawed material, the thinner it is the more the flaws are apparent, and the smaller piece of the sheet you use, the more likely that a flaw will be in it, and the more the flaw will affect the operation of the chip, effectively destroying it. 16nm process refers to the size of the thinnest channel that can be etched into the glass, measured in nanometers (nm). Smaller is better because it produces higher clock rates and lower heat dissipation, but it has its own problems. Bleed-over between channels is always an issue with manufacturing microchips but at this scale it's a huge challenge. They will literally be running up against the physical size of the copper atom soon.

[fangless]

I mean, you think the folks at Nvidia would have made sure they had enough to go around for a year, let alone the first 2 weeks... What the heck happened? Got so excited to finally buy my build and all the reasonably priced 1070 and 1080 graphics cards are sold out. Sad Panda for sure.

I put in nowinstock alerts for the 1070, and I see them all the time on Amazon for ~$450, that's besides the FE as well, all sorts of types.

I mean, it's a great deal for $450, of course they will continue to sell. But there's definitely not a shortage, if you want one, you can get one.

[Vash The Stampede]

I just wish AMD would get their act together and make comparable chips for less money. No heat issues, no production issues, no clock speed issues, none of that.

The RX 480 is a step in that direction. Once the 14nm process is better, and AMD tweaks their new GCN architecture, we should see some serious shit soon.

[Zenny]

Maybe the Geforce 1070 and 1080 are so hard to get due to overwhelming demand and nothing to do with supply issues?

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-does-not-...x-1080-supply/

[Remilia]

That would make sense if people like Gibbo an OCUK employee, didn't personally go to manufacturing companies in Taiwan and received information that supply would be an issue until late july / august. Everything really is corroborating with their reporting.

I should walk around in the electronics area near where I am living at (I am in Taiwan, Taipei atm) and see if I can see any 1070/1080s. It's not a small area either.

[Noctifer616]

NVidia just can't make more chips than AMD even if their yields are better. Polaris 10 is smaller. NVidia is using up a lot of waffers for manufacturing P100 for their HPC contracts (massive chips on new node means low yields). They are going to be shipping GP106 soon, even more waffers eaten up. NVidia isn't the only TSMC customer, so all the waffers that are made don't actually go to NVidia, while AMD is pretty much the only big client GF has.

I highly doubt NVidia can make more GP106 chips than AMD P10 considering their manufacturing is spread across 3 chips, two of which are a lot bigger than P10.