Legion's long wait

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I wasn't specifically singling you out.

But you are one of the worst.

I like how the above poster has also pointed out that we are returning to normal levels of content for an expansion and the Blizzard fanboys are all like "LEGION HAS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH CONTENT ITS AMAZING".

"Take Blizzard's dong out of your mouth"

Yeah I think you are absurd. Grow up.

[starlord]

There was an interview about overwatch that explained what happened with WoD, if you read between the lines. when overwatch was "project titan" it was planned to be a new mmo. so they basically put WoW out to pasture, gave it a skeleton crew to keep the cash cow flowing, while the main part of the team worked on overwatch. at some point they realized that "project titan" was doomed to fail amd realized, oh crap, we dont have a backup after we let wow sink like the titanic. hence the "adding tons of new devs." then they made overwatch with the leftovers from titan, called it a success.

honestly it made me pretty disenchanted with the wow devs, they were willing to throw their legacy under the bus for something new and shiny.

[Kuntantee]

As a software project manager, it happens all the time. There are thousands of things that can seriously delay a project. Remember that Legion was already in development when WoD launched. Look at Overwatch, despite the hige turmoil, the problems, the delays, the retooling and co, they still managed to release something widely successfull.

Hiting roadbumps that delay your initial planning is extremely common in software development and it affects every single dev.

As the great Miyamoto once said, a delayed game can eventually be good, a rushed out broken game is bad forever.

The thousand things that can delay a project are often product of incompetence. It's mostly underestimation on managements end, or poor resource allocation for the development team assuming developer team is competent enough. The entire point of software engineering is to minimize the chances to miss a milestone. If it's "extremely common" in your work environment, time to question the management methods. Make no mistake, estimation in software development is hard and quality managers are extremely rare to find.

[Grosbill]

The thousand things that can delay a project are often product of incompetence. It's mostly underestimation on managements end, or poor resource allocation for the development team assuming developer team is competent enough. The entire point of software engineering is to minimize the chances to miss a milestone. If it's "extremely common" in your work environment, time to question the management methods. Make no mistake, estimation in software development is hard and quality managers are extremely rare to find.

Yeah... no. And most software development projects end up overbudget by more than 50% of what was initially planned (so they either take more time, need more ressources or both).

But I guess you have years worth of software project management under your belt and shipped several products to say "it's often the product of incompetence" ;-)

PS for the record, my team almost never misses a deadline, but that's because I either give realistic projections OR have a hardset deadline that can't be negotiated around and while it may end up arriving on time, it will more often than not due to how software planning works, cost between 10 and 20% more than initially anticipated and I'm reaaaaallly on the low end of that spectrum.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Legion's long wait... is nearly over!
No reason to be skeptical about this expansion unless you don't actually like the game. Its really really good.

[Aceveda]

Legion's long wait... is nearly over!
No reason to be skeptical about this expansion unless you don't actually like the game. Its really really good.

There's plenty reason to be skeptical. They're doubling down on ability pruning(worst shit they could ever pull), mission tables & rng gearing in PvP.

Content looks great though.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

There's plenty reason to be skeptical. They're doubling down on ability pruning(worst shit they could ever pull), mission tables & rng gearing in PvP.

Content looks great though.

Mission Tables aren't really as bad as people say. As I said, if you spent a lot of time in your Order Hall, you're doing it wrong. RNG Gearing I can understand(Although I'm feeling bad for Rogues with Roll the Bones). PVP, well mixed, I'm hearing things are better so I dunno.

[Aceveda]

Mission Tables aren't really as bad as people say. As I said, if you spent a lot of time in your Order Hall, you're doing it wrong. RNG Gearing I can understand(Although I'm feeling bad for Rogues with Roll the Bones). PVP, well mixed, I'm hearing things are better so I dunno.

I don't want to deal with the table, period. That shit does not belong in an MMORPG.

You forgot the most important one.. ability pruning, most classes have a measly 2 pages worth of spells, its pathetic. This game truly is a shadow of its former self.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

There's plenty reason to be skeptical. They're doubling down on ability pruning(worst shit they could ever pull), mission tables & rng gearing in PvP.

Content looks great though.

None of those things actually matter once you have played it though.
You are misunderstanding the prune. They removed spells, but gave a lot of things back to classes. Its more of a rework than a prune.
Mission tables, irrelevant. Nothing bad about it.
RNG gearing in pvp is also irrelevant because the stats on the gear is irrelevant. You are just getting some gear to validate your progression and use elsewhere. You could get the gear from pve and it would be just as good.

Those things are small gripes that once you play a few days played you'll realize why they are vastly outweighed by the game's improvements.

I usually am not some one who plays betas much, but I have nearly 3 weeks played across 5 110s now.
Its just soooo much better than the previous expansions.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't want to deal with the table, period. That shit does not belong in an MMORPG.

You forgot the most important one.. ability pruning, most classes have a measly 2 pages worth of spells, its pathetic. This game truly is a shadow of its former self.

The number of abilities isn't important once you get into the gameplay. Honestly, I feel like I have just as many abilities as I've ever had with all the new talents, but more so the classes play much differently, and usually much faster. With so many cds being effected by Haste, on all tanks I feel like there is times where I simply cant keep up, even though its a decision between one of four spells.

Rotations have been simplified, but with CDs, potions, and other utility, you'll find yourself very comfortable with the current state of most classes. And the best part is with how many specs have been overhauled, if you don't like one, try another.

I had a friend who played Enhance for years, but really hated the changes and removal of totems etc. He was pretty upset with the game at that point, then he tried a Monk on a whim and hes having more fun than he could have imagined!

That's really the strongest point of Legion, how greatly some of the classes have been redesigned. So instead of it being a negative for you, you'll find it to be a positive once you simply stop trying to compare the pre Legion and post Legion structure.

[Jtbrig7390]

While you are correct, isn't having loyal fans who actually care about Blizzard because Blizzard care about them a good thing?

Being Loyal fans is a bad thing, there is no good that comes from being a loyal fan.

The player's need to accept that Warcraft/Blizzard is a business not a friendship. Be a fan enjoy the content and all but being a loyal fan makes "you" the fool.

[Aceveda]

None of those things actually matter once you have played it though.
You are misunderstanding the prune. They removed spells, but gave a lot of things back to classes. Its more of a rework than a prune.
Mission tables, irrelevant. Nothing bad about it.
RNG gearing in pvp is also irrelevant because the stats on the gear is irrelevant. You are just getting some gear to validate your progression and use elsewhere. You could get the gear from pve and it would be just as good.

Those things are small gripes that once you play a few days played you'll realize why they are vastly outweighed by the game's improvements.

I usually am not some one who plays betas much, but I have nearly 3 weeks played across 5 110s now.
Its just soooo much better than the previous expansions.

They gave back spells? The artifact is one ability, one. PvP talents? Warriors use 3/6 of their PvP talents on abilities I have on live right now. "Brand new PvP talents".

My Rogue lost ~10 spells, with no replacements.

I'm not misunderstanding at all, this prune is worse than WoD's. I haven't touched beta in months due to how shitty classes feel, its truly a shame because all the new content is amazing.

RNG gearing isn't irrelevant since gear still matters outside of instanced PvP, since we don't have templates outside of it.

[Deleted]

I don't care anymore

They might as well do 24 month content drought in Legion. I won't be there to witness it.

That's right, I decided to leave the game for good shortly after its launch. I'd quit it right now, but it's not... profitable to do so.
Instead, I will abuse my gold making expertise in the opening launch. I expect 8-12 million gold made (in WoD's opening month I made nearly 3M with just 3 characters...now i got 11 of them) Then... yeah, you know what I am going to do. Nope, it's not legal and will most likely result in a ban. See if I care about that.

Legion will propably be a good expansion, but oh well. It's time for me to leave this game. 3 years of depression and social withdrawal has been enough. Escaping from it was difficult as well. Fare thee well.

[Unholyground]

It was their inability to plan around the lack of a development team for the better part of 2 expansions, not only did they have to train all the new people they were hiring they also had to build multiple expansions with the smallest team they had ever had.

[Nachtigal]

And why not? I am not in the entertainment industry or in commerce but I suspect it's better when a customer asks you about the shortcomings of your product instead of simply casting it aside and stopping to pay for it.

Blizzard and the players have a relationship, if one side says silent or only speaks out when it's convenient then that relationship is over.

You guys have become delusional in thinking we're owed explanations.
No game company goes in depth to explain why something failed and didn't work as planned.
If there's a large enough crowd (mass effect 3 for example) they will come out and say "hey sorry we messed up, here's our fix."
They do not give us large in depth explanations as to who did (or didn't) what and why they did (or didn't) and reason X Y Z is why
the game failed.
Blizzard was one of the first companies to do this, and it has spoiled (like yourself) a few of the customers into thinking that they're owed such things. The only "relationship" we have as players with blizzard, is strictly business, and that only goes as far as us paying for access to the servers. They should really go back to being silent on everything because the vultures are always lurking, waiting for a chance to twist words, or call them out on a "promise" that they're pressured into giving because people DEMAND communication, and if they don't give definites, they're accused of shady business models. There is nothing majorly wrong with the company. It is the Playerbase. Yes WoD was a mistake, but prior to that they've made quality games and content.
We are LUCKY if they choose to give us info on a subject.

[pmkaboo]

They just come off of a 26 month expansion. Do you really think that the devs were all sitting around after that and going "ok guys this expansion will be 12 months long", then 12 months later going "ok dangit I really thought we could do this. Looks like we need another 10 months afterall"? How could you be that off base with your timeline after 10 years of making expansions? Just the Alpha + Beta alone is almost a year, then add in patch content and actually developing the expansion, we're at the 2 year mark. I really cannot imagine any scenario where they genuinely believed that a yearly expansion was realistic and achievable after 26 months of MoP.

heres one scenario how it couldve happened:
higher ups: "can you do yearly expansions?"
devs: "probably not."
higher ups: "alright then, lets try and see how it goes."